This isn't true - compare:

* daemon -> systemd -> syslog -> textfile
with
* daemon -> syslog -> textfile

Simple question: Which one has more parts and contains new software and is therefore more prone to failure?

Writing a binary log and then forwarding to syslog isn't acceptable because it makes the assumption that nothing will go wrong with the logging. Since we're talking about failure conditions this is not necessarily going to be true. This translates to an increased risk of lost and unrecoverable logging information, which in a mission-critical production environment is a big deal.

If you're going to write both plaintext and binary logs, you should be writing the text log first. That way if there's a problem like disk failure you can read the (partial) text log rather than being left with a corrupt and unreadable binary blob. The problem with doing it that way, apparently, is that then you wouldn't need binary logging...

So why don't you set syslog up to log everything to a database? It's had that ability since forever. The data files written by the DB engine will even be binary, just like you want. You'll be able to save very rich metadata and do all kinds of interesting things. For example, use the rich SQL language to do complex queries and joins - much more than simple filters you love in systemd. If you like binary logs, you'll *love* database logs!

Database engines are designed to handle massive amounts of data efficiently, so you can keep your entire log history all in one huge binary blob and query away at it to your heart's content - none of this 'only 3 months worth of logs' crap. Pretty much any modern database engine will handle a table with millions of rows no sweat - way more than you're likely to need for a logging system unless you're just being gratuitious.

Database engines also come with other nice features such as data consistency guarantees (this is a big one) and user access control and support for clustering, replication, and load balancing (if you're e.g pumping out a lot of log entries or need security, reliability, or redundancy). Hell, you could use triggers to make things happen when certain things are logged. You can do really cool stuff.

And if you have mysql installed you probably won't even need to install any new software. You definitely wouldn't need to go near the init system. Or mess with compatibility or reliability. Or force a bunch of dependencies down anybody's throat. And I could still use sane, simple tools like grep to look at the logfiles on my desktop system, and you could use your huge binary enterprizey system running on oracle databases, and neither would need to impact on the other, and we could all live in peace and harmony.

It's pretty cool what we already have. All you need to do is read the docs and configure things to do what you want.

It sounds more to me like he was running a distribution which had a track record of being fairly stable despite being declared inherently unstable, and that one particular piece of software broke things fairly substantially for him on more than one occasion, so he decided to avoid that piece of software, even if it meant changing distros.

Seems sensible enough to me.

You mean "the people he alledgedly attempted to have murdered".

I'm not saying he didn't do it, but at this point he's innocent because he hasn't been found guilty by a court.

Unless you were his accomplice or have seen evidence that hasn't been released publicly, you're making the assumption that he's guilty based on nothing. If you were his accomplice of have seen such evidence, then perhaps this public forum isn't the best place to be running your mouth off.

heh, that's exactly what happened to me:

"systemd? New init system? Whatever. I trust debian, I'm sure it'll be fine."

"Oh that systemd thing again huh? Wow, seems to be controversial. But as long as I can easily configure my startup I don't care."

"Wait, what? THE PULSEAUDIO GUY WANTS TO GET INTO MY INIT SYSTEM??? FUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOUFUCKYOU!"

Violence/threats/etc are never acceptable, but I think it's very fair to be concerned that people who want to be in charge of the most critical process on your system couldn't even get a sound server right. Especially considering that said sound server was unnecessary in the first place and was also shoved down our throats.

10 projects looks a hell of a lot better on your resume than 1 does. HR people are not going to look at your bugzilla.

This answer also applies to pulseaudio

Am I the only one who finds this statement somewhat paradoxical?

Isn't it obvious? He's working with the secret remnants of the USSR who coordinate everything from their hollowed-out volcano lair on the dark side of the moon in cooperation with the reptilian overlords. Who are also communist.

Duh.

Indeed, we have distros for what he's suggesting.

I like having my desktop OS exactly the same as my server OS - it makes things easy: any command which works on my desktop is going to work on my server, as long as it's console-only and the appropriate software is installed there. If it's not installed, I know it's easily available, because it's available on my desktop.

If and when I ever run into a problem where I become convinced it's e.g the scheduler at fault and not my code, I'll go and read up on tuning and tune as required, or maybe look at a different distro. But in 99.9% of cases I can refactor a small piece of code and fix the problem without even going that deep. I've never ever tuned the kernel.

huh?
It's been more than 5 years since I did audio editing on something other than Linux.

systemd is written by the pulseaudio guy?!?

I totally didn't care about this debate until I read that, now I just want systemd away from me. eew!

Pulseaudio is indeed a really terribly horribly bad system. My favourite thing about pulseaudio is that even when you have a multichannel audio card capable of playing more than one sound simultaneously (i.e a good pro-audio card, or any 15 year old creative labs card), pulseaudio still does the mixing in software, because using my CPU to do something not-quite-as-well as the purpose-built hardware I have in my machine is a great idea. Another excellent feature of pulseaudio is the network transparency, because I love clogging up my LAN with uncompressed audio data, and jack didn't already do a better job of it.

Granted, it has gotten better - at least it works now, most of the time. 3 years ago it was the number 1 reason for me to reboot my system.

Based on my pulseaudio experience I don't want to be using systemd until at least 2030.

Just for the record, what you got is store credit, not the refund you were entitled to.

I'm Australian, and I think maybe the best thing about this place is the ACCC.

This time last year I was a super-hardcore valve fan, singing their praises and buying up pretty much every new game that came out for linux, including much of valve's catalog (which I had previously pirated). I was even thinking about trying to build a few steam boxes to sell on ebay.

One game I bought was Fez. It didn't work properly, making it unplayable. I emailled Fez support and recieved no response.

I emailled valve demanding the refund I am entitled to by law. I spent many, many emails back and forth explaining to them that I was entitled to my money back, since the thing being unplayable is clearly a major fault. They tried to tell me that the law doesn't apply to them and that I should write to their legal department and ignored my further emails... Rather than simply obeying the law and refunding the princely sum of $2.49.

The argument that our law doesn't apply to them is a joke - the law applies if you sell within australia. I was in Australia when I bought Fez. There are steam mirrors here. They are specifically marketing at Australians - If Australian laws don't apply to valve, where's my uncensored version of Left 4 Dead 2?

I complained to the ACCC and did a chargeback on my credit card - got my money back despite them. Interestingly, I still have Fez in my steam library, so it looks like i got it for free. I don't know whether the game-breaking bug has been fixed - I have no interest in playing it anymore.

I've not purchased anything through steam since, and Valve will never see another cent of my money - I don't support companies who think they're above the law.

The humble store and GOG have both made a killing off of me this year. I wonder if I can can get one or both to write Valve a nice thank-you note.

If you got a refund from valve without doing a chargeback, you were lucky. If you didn't get a refund, do a chargeback, then call the ACCC and tell them you love their work. And if you know somebody who works for the ACCC, hug them for me.