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Comment Re:There's a contradiction there. (Score 1) 250

Next time you reply to someone, don't use a phrase like "troll blather". It makes you look like a frothy fanboy or a Blizzard intern.

I'm a fan, for sure.
But I'm a fan because of the quality of their product and the efforts they go to to maintain it's integrity, which are fairly good reasons I think.
And my arguments are mostly from the perspectives of both Gamer and Developer, though I've never worked for Blizzard (and probably never would).
And I actually had tried a few different phrases before I settled on "troll blather" as I seriously couldn't think of a more apt phrase.
I mean, clearly you know nothing about the game, as all your evidence is third hand, you're calling it a clone of quake 3 (I'm assuming you did play quake 3? Clearly you've not played both), And just about every sentence in your post was a hyperbolic inaccuracy.
If I hadn't already posted and had mod points I would have done the exact same thing with the dropdown, but without adding anything extra.

Comment Re:Blizzard takes games seriously (Score 1) 250

No, not a trick question, a real one, I'm no expert at any sort of law. I just know that if when I sell the right to use the compiled result of code I worked on, without modification, and make that part of the contract - this would clearly impact the price - if I was selling you my source code and rights to modify it, I'd be charging - well not me, we're talking about Overwatch here, I paid $60 for my compiled non-modifiable copy, but I think the source code and rights to modify it would be easily in the millions of dollars.
Blizzard have decided to keep their project closed source and locked up, and simply sell licenses to use it that way. And Copyright law is the law that covers the rights to this I thought? So when someone hacks in, modifies the source code, and profits off it, I can see Blizz thinking the law should help protect them.
And when the whole entire driving intent it to access Blizzards game servers with these modified illegal clients, they're breaking yet more agreements and at that point they're damaging the entire overwatch playerbase. So you think there should be no legal recourse? Or is it a different legal area, like theft or digital trespassing or what? I mean I know most laws are old, and that the world today has a lot of issues the original law writers never considered, but that's not Bliz's fault is it?

Comment Re: Blizzard: Get a new business model (Score 1) 250

Black market antibiotics are made without regulation, and are one of the largest contributors to antibiotic resistance. Assuming they were making good clean helpful drugs, then they aren't like Bossland, who aren't helping.

I said anabolics, as in steroids, not antibiotics. And they're helping cheaters cheat, which is exactly what Bossland is doing.

OK, I stand corrected on antibiotics vs anabiotics/whatever they're illegally producing but it doesn't change in any way my point - black market drugs are unregulated, and untested by the proper authorities, and as such unsafe, regardless of what they are, and they were developed at great cost by a different company who would like to recoup their cost legally by selling what they developed legally, etc... so sure, nitpick all you like.
My first point stands

It's like blizzard built a carpark, charged everyone $5 to park there, then some unaffiliated company sets up out front, stops people driving in, and offers them "easy parking service" for $10, pockets the money, drives round back, in through a no-public-access service entrance, then starts parking the cars wherever they like, blocking other genuine customers parking.

In your example, you've got someone standing outside the parking garage and collecting money in the course of depriving Blizzard of sales while, at the same time, depriving Blizzard of resources they build and maintain (parking spaces). While Bossland does charge for their software, said software does not allow access to Blizzard's services without paying (Blizzard) for them, nor does it deprive "legitimate" (defined by me as someone who pays for access, thereby including users of Bossland's software; if you have another definition, let's hear it) users of access.

Bossland is using private methods of access explicitly against the ToS to give game players access to more than blizzard gave those players rights or access to, and are charging these players for this access. Blizzard's regular customers are being impacted and receiving a worse experience, bossland is making a profit off blizzard's intellectual property.

So my first point stands.

Damn straight blizzard will march out front, tell them to take off, and that if they stop breaking the lock on the private entrance and bringing cars in illegally, oh, and all that money you've been collecting, taking out of our pocket, we want restitution for that too.

They're breaking no locks, users of Bossland's software pay Blizzard for access and connect to Blizzard's servers using Blizzard's software, the same way everyone else does. They're not taking money out of Blizzard's pockets, as Blizzard is still getting paid. So there's no restitution to be had, no matter how bad Blizzard (and you) may want there to be.

They hacked into blizzard's code, and use a modified version of it to generate an overlay showing the intentionally hidden information. So yes, they've broken into overwatch. Their customers of course pay for their original copy of the game, and then pay bossland to hack it for them. Their resulting versions ruin the game for legal customers, which means that prospective legal customers will be less likely to purchase it. So yes, they have made money off blizzard's back that has resulted in blizzard losing money, the basic premise that restitution addresses.
Still failing to actually add anything pertinent to the discussion or make much sense here mate.... but lets keep going:

See what I did there?

I sure do, but I'm sure you'll see it differently.

OK, I guess you didn't so I'll explain: I laid your argument out and pointed out all the gaping holes in it, which is what you attempted to do, but failed at. Unfortunately, I used logic and reasoning, and you're too busy playing semantics and pedantics.
As such, I used your line "See what I did there?" satirically.
As I was the one writing it, and thus doing it, I know what I did there, and why I did it (as will others with decent reading comprehension, which is a surprisingly large portion of /., yourself currently excluded)
Seems it sailed over your head however, despite claims to the contrary. That's OK though, I'm not replying to you specifically for you, though you're free to benefit from it (though you clearly prefer to argue, regardless of merit)

I pointed out gaping holes in your argument.

No, you really didn't.

You keep telling yourself that. I'm sure to you I haven't, but I'm perfectly fine with that, I'm not your mother :)

Now compare bossland to the 'unaffiliated company' profiting off blizzard's infrastructure.

You mean like a 3rd-party computer repair shop or car mechanic? Those businesses actually do deprive OEM repair facilities of sales, yet they're completely legal. Meanwhile, Bossland is actually not depriving Blizzard of anything... so...

OK, Blizzard is selling "a way to compete with other people" - It's designed the game and the rules. How is someone changing the rules for a small subset of the players for their own profit in any way related to any sort of "repair facility" Bossland isn't repairing anything, it's literally doing the opposite. it's literally "breaking the game".
Seriously, your arguments (where they're actually given) are getting worse and worse here.

See everyone else's point yet?

Funny you should ask, I was just in the middle of answering. No.

It's OK, you didn't need to answer, we all know where your head is, and what you can see from there :)

Comment Re: Maybe they should work harder at cheat-proofin (Score 1) 250

I think that went over your head... Try reading the post again - keyword "imagine"...

Personally I think he* is partially right, the DMCA and associated shit shouldn't be used for something like this. If a game developer have a persistent world where money transactions are involved (subscription fees should be enough) they should also be required to make cheats and security intrusions (almost**) impossible. Maybe not to the degree that they should be considered banks but something close to that would be logical. Many hacks in games are due to a fundamentally fucked up development environment, hacking instead of developing mostly due to pressures to deliver something rather than deliver something working.

(* sexist, most likely true) (** given the current state of art for programming almost impossible is the best possible level of security)

OK, do me a favour, and remember that Blizzard is a for-profit company. Done that? Good. Now try to take the perspective of someone trying to ensure this company continues to profit. A little tougher? Got it yet? Good. OK, so now, you tell your devs you want "almost impossible" security, but to still make a profit. This is where you might imagine a kindly dev pointing out that there's this thing called "diminishing returns" that applies particularly well here, and they tell you that with the budget allowed, they've got as close to "almost impossible" as they can already. Getting "closer" will mean spending significantly more time (exponentially, actually) and turn those profits inside out. Now pretend you want to keep your job, and go hire a lawyer to stop these thieves like every other company in a similar situation does.

Comment Re: Maybe they should work harder at cheat-proofin (Score 1) 250

>"Oh, that's your son? Well doing what your son has been doing is actually against your ISP's TOS....they could cancel your service."

And that would be an actionable lie. So yeah, that's retarded.

Blizzard needs to allow private dedicated servers like games used to have. They don't like that, so they should have to deal with the resulting fallout.

Yeah, I'm also pissed that microsoft won't let me host my own copy of Win Server 2012 as I like. They claim it's their intellectual property or some such crap. So unfair I can't use all their hard work for myself however I like, and even profit off it myself.
It's like some people think if I want to have my own game server I should have to build my own game server, or find one someone is happy and willing to sell me, and pay for that.
And don't forget, having my own dedicated modifiable server would allow me to help fragment the playerbase, and subvert the in game expectations of players, so that fair competition (the single core purpose of the software) is unachievable.

Comment Re: Maybe they should work harder at cheat-proofi (Score 1) 250

How is it the manufacturer's fault for not writing perfect code? Writing perfect code is really hard and expensive. It's a game, not an investment bank.

^This
Assuming writing "perfect code" was even possible (It's not), and assuming this would be a base requirement for producing an enjoyable game (It's not) the investment required would mean you'd be paying more for your copy of Overwatch than you did for your car, which (I assume) relatively few would be willing to do.
So our options here are threefold:
1) stop making software, as it can't be perfect.
2) assume everyone is/will cheat, and make it part of the game (then it wouldn't be overwatch or competitive or enjoyable - again noone would buy it or play it)
3) Use whatever legal resources are available to protect your intellectual property and prosecute those who both devalue _and_ profit off of your work

I know which one I'd pick.

Comment Re: Maybe they should work harder at cheat-proofin (Score 1) 250

Or maybe anti social dorks shouldn't make it so that entertainment requires banking level security to keep these losers from ruining the fun for everyone else. The fault lies with the cheats not the manufacturers.

I'm a programmer and have done a lot of security work for banks (American and Australian, mostly)
While giving any specifics would probably land me in jail or at least with a hefty fine, I can assure you that Blizzard has a far better level of security than many/most banking systems. The truth is appallingly scary.

Comment Re:If your game can be controlled by a bot (Score 1) 250

Bullshit.

Very, very few AI's are hard to beat because they are "better players". Most win because they cheat massively (unlimited resources etc.), or simply because it micromanages on an inhuman level because it can click more times per second than any human possibly could while constantly have full awareness of everything going on - even things it shouldn't.

Exactly, that's why we call people who use these bots and "tools" cheats.
The bots _are_ "better players" precisely because they do cheat and can react much faster than a human (interesting point: it's the reaction time that's most relevant)
When creating intentional AI enemies, the developers are totally aware that their AIs cheat as compared to their human players, and it's the balancing of this "cheating edge" that developers tweak to make a balanced game (Because, as it turns out, hiring real humans who don't need to cheat to play all the NPC characters real time is a little bit cost-prohibitive, unless you turn it into a competition between the real players and... oh yeah that's what they did for the main game)

tlrd: the definition of "better player" is open to discussion.

Comment Re:There's a contradiction there. (Score 1) 250

I won't bother to respond to each part of your troll blather, but I will point out that for Blizzard to reverse engineer the cheat programs, they'd have to break a ton of laws, in this case both national and international, and end up just as bad as the company they're suing, and probably get sued in turn.
Also, I'm sure Bliz is fully aware of the Streisand Effect, and I hope it kicks in and people take a close look at the amount of bugs in Overwatch as compared to other studios offerings. (Hint: they look pretty damn rosy)
There's already a lot of posts on here commenting on how "At least Blizzard goes after cheaters" in comparison to other studios.
While many other studios fail, Blizzard continues to produce some of the most popular games in the world with the largest playerbases, and never gives up on hunting down and banning cheaters. Of course there are cheaters, you can expect cheaters in games to stop being a problem the same day that we as a society manage to eliminate criminals and the need for jails. Meanwhile, just as the rest of the world does, Blizzard will continue to deal with cheaters.

Comment Re:There's a contradiction there. (Score 1) 250

Well, not every game has a subscription. Some have microtransactions, which are effectively the same thing in aggregate. The bigger problem is that Blizzard is notoriously poor for having too damned many cheats for their games. Their "solutions" are heavy handed- we have "Warden" scanning all your RAM and being fully capable of exposing anything else your computer is up to, a built in supervisor back door. We have out of line copyright claims, we have them shutting down free software that implements protocols, and of course they run around to shut down people who wrote and run their own WoW server (no closed source code used!).

And what do we get for all this bullshit? You queue a battleground and see bots running around. You play against wallhacks and aimbots. Their code remains a nest of cheating, despite their ludicrously overreaching bullshit.

Overwatch has no subscriptions, they have stated additional maps and characters will be added over time at no additional charge. The only microtransactions are for cosmetics that have zero impact on gameplay.
" Blizzard is notoriously poor for having too damned many cheats for their games"
Actually, all games the size of Blizzard's "notorious" games tend to have cheats. If Overwatch had a playerbase of 10 thousand, we wouldn't even be aware of this issue (and it probably wouldn't exist, as there wouldn't be a market for it).
Their solutions are "heavy handed" because clearly "light handed" doesn't protect their paid customers.
As for "out of line copyright claims" The entire copyright system is "out of line" by all I've read over the last few years on /.
They're trying to protect their intellectual property, they're trying to use the appropriate section of law to do so. Not their fault that section of law is so messed up.
How can someone run a wow server without using wow server code, which I don't recall them open sourcing?

What am I getting for this? A better competitive experience in Overwatch, Blizzard delivering on their promises, etc...

tldr; I replied to this post and halfway through realised he's simultaneously complaining that Blizzard do too much to stop cheaters, and at the same time that they clearly don't do enough to stop cheaters, as they're everywhere (talk about a contradiction! :P), but I'm having fun on this thread so still posting.

Comment Re:There's a contradiction there. (Score 1) 250

Untrue. Consoles have plenty of online multiplayer pvp games with no extant cheats. There are also some games on PC for which no cheats exist either. I avoid games with cheaters successfully, and OP can too. I guess you can't though. Pity.

Summary: "Let cheaters cheat, the only way to win is not to play" Sure, play games that are not as good, and thus have a smaller player base, and thus are not targets for these hackers. That doesn't seem to me like a way to enhance your playing experience, rather one to severely limit it. Pity.

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