No I'm saying this isn't a case of "the people not knowing what's good for them". Uninformed opinion in that case was not even being presented with options, anybody can see why the idea of faster horses loses to cars if presented the options but why should net neutrality lose out?

But Henry Ford didn't ask the people for opinion, nor did he - as is being done with net neutrality - present a choice and ask for feedback on that.

How is that analogous? He didn't ask the people "do you want cars or faster horses".

I doubt it, it was unpopular before the real names policy and I don't see the reversion of that policy increasing it's popularity.

Sorry I'm not really familiar with Google+ - outside of the necessity of it to make use of Google services and the incessant nagging from Google that I create one - but what privacy violations does this change rescind? I did a bit of a search and found this but AFAIK that is still in effect (or maybe it isnt?).

I see the only major impact of this being that people can now leave pseudonymous comments on Youtube again.

It's under the all applications part of the start screen, it does have a tile - it just isn't pinned to the main screen - because it's added to the start screen the same way it is added to the start menu in Windows 7 (that little arrow at the bottom of the start screen reveals all installed applications). Also you could have always used search to find it, it comes back to these people who are so indoctrinated into the Windows way of doing things that any change there renders them baffled. If you were to install Office on OS X you wouldn't get a dock icon or desktop icon either, you have to browse the application folder (start menu folder on Windows) or use Spotlight (search on Windows) to find it.

I don't like the start screen on desktops but its replacement of the start menu has proven just how incompetent and dependent on one specific way of doing things many computer users are.

So how do you manage on an operating system OS X then that doesn't have a start menu?

I'm talking about the one he mentioned, that Clevo. I agree, my macbook pro can play almost all games reasonably enough, but it's not one of those high powered (relatively speaking) gaming laptops.

No, I never said that. In fact I even clarified that due to my inexperience with Android I can't comment on that and your point may very well be completely valid with respect to Android.

Reading comprehension fail, you only addressed one of the points, so what was the cost of training? I mean you've obviously never done the process if you actually believe technically competent people need training to learn how to update an iOS device. Moreover the fact that service exists doesn't mean people use it, so how many people actually use it? Come on, let's see your evidence.

And I'm not questioning those examples, I'm questioning one of your examples, which doesn't work as an example if it is invalid so show me the evidence that it is valid, but you can't and continue to fail to do so.

Ok show me the numbers then:
Show me the cost of training. Given that it's a one click process I'm going to assume the cost is virtually zero.
Show me the cost of paying somebody to upgrade your iOS device for you.

In that they are upgraded, whether it's by themselves or somebody else is not relevant, though i suspect given the triviality of it it probably is themselves.

So it's not relevant, since we aren't talking about those who do take steps to maintain their devices.

Then show me the evidence for including iPads, no more weasel words, just evidence, come on.

False, I never said such a thing.

Yes and Androids, but since I don't know much about that process I'm focusing on the iPads component.