Let me see if I get this right: Three letter agencies refuse to work in compliance with the Constitution and pre-Bush era FISA law... where few people can remember why the original FISA was passed (look it up, it has everything to do with illegal three letter agency data collection on US citizens during the early to mid-20th century, very much like what we're facing now)... where people forget that NSA lawyers were directed by Darth Cheney to find every means of justifying to the secret court (what? a secret court in America? really???) four (that we know so far), count 'um, four illegal spying programs... which the aforementioned secret court accepted with few, if any limits!... so Baby Bush could wave a court signed piece of paper that granted his illegal spy programs legitimacy... and that anti-American "socialist" Obama continually supports... where citizens of the Formerly Great Country of the USA demand safety in nearly gleeful exchange for freedoms... and not one single person involved in these clearly illegal activities has been put on trial... while the US Government hunts those who might reveal aforementioned illegal activities...

Problem? What problem? Oh. Right. Ice cold Busch and NASCAR await. Gotta go...

Serious students of PRC policy in regards to the role of science and technology need to read China’s Program for Science and Technology Modernization: Implications for American Competitiveness . In particular...

...Viewing science and technology as the key to economic development and international competitiveness, the government of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) has launched a comprehensive effort to become an innovative nation by 2020 and a global scientific power by 2050. China’s effort will draw significantly on the resources and planning role of the state, whose national science programs have long made targeted investments in research and development (R&D) efforts in areas deemed critical China’s economic and military needs...

Additionally, this could shed further light on the topic - State Council, Guojia Zhongchangqi Kexue he Jishu Fazhan Guihua Gangyao (2005 - 2020) National Medium to Long - term Plan for the Development of Science and Technology (2005 - 2020), February 9, 2006. http://www.gov.cn/jrzg/2006 - 02/09/content_183787_2.htm

I agree that America needs to wake up to more than corporate "profitability" that has enabled the transfer of manufacturing, product development, and intellectual property into China. China clearly knew what they wanted when they opened it's doors to the West and enabled US corporations to fill America's shelves with cheap goods. It is only a means to a much bigger end for China and it is coming at a very steep cost to the common citizens (ie: labor, engineering) in America.

Why is it that taxpayer money can be used to bail out corporations and banks while not lifting a finger to help "We the People"? _And_ to "forgive" or write-off billions in unpaid debt? I'm shocked the CEO's and corporate officers who drove those companies into the ground haven't been lynched by the citizens of your country.

... which leads me to once again wonder if the bottom 99% in America will ever wake up to discover they have a comment interest and see how powerful they can be when acting together... but that's a topic for another time...

I think this is too simplistic. You can replace every single president, senator and congress-critter in Washington and you'll have the same outcome as you're faced with today. The reason is that members of three letter agencies feel, with all their bleed'n-red-Amerikan-hearts that they are responsible maintaining "continuity". They don't care which political party is in power. They know politicians will come and go.

I think you're very close with your inclusion of generals on your list of those needing to be replaced. Broaden that a bit to include anyone who can set policy and direction without public review and oversight , and I think you'd have something to work with.

Which is the reason behind my ongoing snickering over a recently /.'d article that described how "hurt" NSA employees are that Obama has not paid them a personal visit. I can't imagine who died and left them in charge, but in charge they definitely feel. Think about it from my perspective and the underlying meaning of their being "hurt" might take on new weight and meaning.

I agree. You are, indeed, a god!! You've hit the proverbial nail right on the fucking head!!!

Your tax dollars at work! And aren't y'all proud? Gotta love America. Anything is justifiable there. Sad. Really sad.

Since when have any of these companies ever cared a whit or a bit for their customer's privacy? Something clearly does not add up here. Must be a publicity stunt and nothing more.

Er. No. Three letter agency spying on US citizens is illegal. Period. Ever read the 4th amendment to your constitution? Perhaps you should.

Thank you. That's exactly it, isn't it?

Exactly!!! Well illustrated points.

Standards of "reasonable-ness" in the US and UK are completely screwed up. More importantly, claiming illegal actions "reasonable" does not make them any less unlawful, now does it?

Indeed. Privacy does _not_ equal paranoia.

I hate to see us have to fight this fight, yet again. It appears we need to, once more, remind our government and corporate overlords that what we do and who we are is really none of their business. Just because we pay taxes or give them our hard earned money in exchange for cheap pieces of electronic crap does _not_ mean they have the right to know everything or anything about us.

... so how do your comments square with the following?

From Chemical and Engineering news -

Reagan’s economic programs, so controversial then and now, generally supported federal science programs... As Reagan’s term went on, however, the rising federal deficits and lower revenues that were the result of a recession took their toll on R&D budgets. Soon, agencies such as the Energy Department, the National Bureau of Standards, and even the National Institutes of Health were looking at budget cuts.

Further, from "The Revolution that Killed Society", we read...

The Regan Revolution went much further than to just corrupt previously publicly owned companies: they mandated that every service that had begun with ownership by the public needed to be privatized; because only the private corporate-world could make money with things like public services, that up until then had been "a drain" on the public purse. 'Privatization would bring an economic windfall from the drudgery and incompetence of publicly owned services. The justification by the Regan Revolution was that Everything Must Earn a Profit, or it should be terminated: The entire idea of society providing anything for its citizens was heresy to any True-Capitalist.

The result was 'The Revolution That Killed Society'. Everything from the buses and the trains, to electricity, natural gas and heating oil, public hospitals, and public health: indeed everything except possibly firefighters and police have been privatized: and now even those two "services" are experimenting with the idea of privatization as well.

The size of government actually increased under Reagan. This has to stand in stark contrast with his stated goals of downsizing government. From the Reagan Budget, we learn that "People around the country seem to understand what no one in Washington will admit: The budget is out of control. The growth of government is out of control...

Lastly, I take no position on Right vs Left in American politics, except to note that neither party works for We the People. Both parties work hard for the monied class. Hence my belief that America has a one party system. It's called the Business Party and it has two factions that conveniently distract America's citizens by providing great theater as they fight amongst themselves. "Liberals" in the US look better than "Conservatives" only in that they don't say stupid things quite as often as the Rabid Right. Neither faction has any idea how to govern for We the People.

To start, the US de-funded scientific research. It had to, in part, because Ronald Raygun privatized many government functions. What was the practical effect? It means that rather than paying managers of a government function a government salary, you now take bids from private companies who have only one interest at heart: To make the managers of the private company rich. The cost of government has risen dramatically thereby. Think I'm wrong? Look at SAIC, Ross Perot and his old company, and all the companies related to war and contracting "security" services (just to scratch the surface). Which is directly related to why America spends well north of 55 percent of it's national budget on war related costs, instead of the less than 25 percent of a national budget that European countries do. So, in a country where people do not like government, don't want to pay any tax, in a country where R&D incentives (first initiated during WWII) are removed, in a country that feels it's OK to send jobs to China (effectively making China's middle class rich and America's poor) you end up being left behind on the ideological, scientific, basic research items.

Europe has it's own financial problems right now. It did three things. First, it allowed Germany to become not only the bankers of the EU, but to become the economic powerhouse of the EU as well. Second, many EU countries bought a ton of AAA-rated US mortgage packages that turned out to be junk. Take a close look at which countries bought what and you'll see the effect I'm pointing out. Third, the EU tried to grow their economy by doing what the US and UK did; make cheap loans available as a means of boosting production. Bad move, right? Credit bubbles seldom last forever. Look at what it did to Spain.

Which leads me to this: First world nation's governments are deeply involved in "realpolitik", and are no longer paying attention to the ideologies on which they were founded or the ideologies of science as it might relate to industry. In the US and UK this means enabling corporate and banker greed. On mainland Europe, this means getting wrapped around the axle of competing political interests.