Please read what I wrote again. I don't think you understood it properly.

As I mentioned above. MS make VM images available to test content in various versions of IE for free. These can be used on OSX or Linux (and probably any other platform that supports the VMI format they use). Safari isn't available for Linux either, in case you forgot.

Very true - in fact IE4 was actually way more stable than NS4, and IE5 was a revelation when it came out. It wasn't that MS just used underhand practices (though they certainly did) but their browsers just had better engines. NS5 was terrible. they attempted to correct the biggest problem with NS4 which was that resizing it with JS and dynamic content would either crash the browser completely, or kill the JS engine and screw up the layout (unless you used the proprietary tag). IE4 at the time had no problem with reflow, although it was a bit slower. NS5 though was ridiculously slow, incompatible with NS4, and had so many bugs that it was ludicrous to recommend anyone use it. Netscape basically just let it stagnate.

"If you don't hate IE, then you haven't been building websites."

First website I built was around 20 years ago. Last website I built completed a couple of weeks ago.

I've been through pretty much every version of IE, Netscape, Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari, (and Mozaic). If you're not charging clients extra now for IE6/7 support, then you really need to look at your business practices. I don't "hate" any platform; I just charge clients if they need a platform supported. Of course, you're free to go on some religious or idealogical crusade in your spare time if you like, but getting emotional about a browser doesn't make much sense.

It's funny to me to hear people claiming IE6 is incapable of rending content etc, when we were making arcade style games, windowing systems, AJAX style requests (piggybacking data in cookies from image src requests) back with IE4 and NS4.

tl;dr Charge clients for the extra work, or get new clients. Don't work for free and then moan about it.

You obviously haven't tried very hard. There are freely available VM images to test with various versions of IE : http://www.rdeeson.com/weblog/126/how-to-run-internet-explorer-7-8-and-9-in-linux-with-or-without-wine.html . Obviously you can use them with OSX or Linux.

Probably also worth mentioning that the OSX version of Safari doesn't render exactly the same as it does on Windows. It's also not any more available for Linux than IE is. Maybe that's "untestable" too, eh?

Must admit, although I primarily use Firefox or Chome; I have no problems at all with IE. I don't understand why people would "cheer for its demise". IE9 is a good browser, and I'm all for competition. Less competition in any space is generally bad for users, if things swing too far toward one engine we'll be in the same position we were when IE6 was the "standard" and people ended up only bothering to test on that browser. That causes stagnation.

Yeah, basically the rain sensor (BMW) overrides the intermittent timer, so although the controls are there for it, they don't actually do anything if the sensor hasn't enabled the wipers. Afterwards I found out that if the sensor's fuse is removed, then the intermittent hardware works again. Wish I'd known!

Not only that, but some parts are pretty much guaranteed to fail after X years, and be very expensive to replace. Example on my car the passenger side central locking was working only sporadically. Wasn't the solenoid; turned out to be the controller module, so cost over £500 to replace to fix the problem. Also, rain sensor on the windscreen - notorious for failing at around 4-5 years, requires a complete new windscreen + sensor module as they're bonded together. You might wonder why bother, but if that is not working, you either have to have the wipers full-on, or off; there's no intermittent setting, which quickly becomes very annoying.

Yup, if you're arguing that "Steam DRM is easy to hack, so Steam are the good guys" - then why bother even paying anything? You're already on the path, so you might as well just torrent the game for free.

Agreed. My actual point was that Steam's (and Apple's) restrictions are the same as Sony and MS are proposing. The price is actually irrelevant. I don't usually read AC posts (as they're often posters trying to reinforce their own arguments) so have no idea what they said, but the other stuff posted would be irrelevant, even if it weren't illogical. Attacking me for posting actual prices from the Steam store with some ridiculous argument that the prices would go down some day, so it's impossible that they sell for that. Or "I buy games for $10, so all games are $10". Just... wow...

But hey, this is Slashdot - been here enough years to know how it works by now :)

I don't read AC posts. But whatever it was you wrote, I'm sure it was up to the usual high standards of the anonymous posters :)

Heh, that Borderlands 2 price has honestly changed since I posted that comment! I wouldn't have posted that price if it wasn't correct at the time - weird. Anyway, anyone can see the current prices of CURRENT games on the store. You know you can also buy discounted games on the console stores right, or buy them for next to nothing when they're past their prime?

It's totally irrelevant anyway. Whether you're having a £15 game locked to your account, a £30 game, or a £1 game, it's the same restriction. What my point was, before the excuses came raining down, was that Steam are using the same type of restrictions for their customers, and have been doing so for some time now - this is a fact, not an opinion. People who have been purchasing games from Steam, with full knowledge of this have no right to rage about Sony and MS doing the exact same thing. If anything, the people paying Steam, and supporting its sales model have encouraged other companies to do the same, as they can see it's been successful.

"You must be a lot of fun at parties."

And there we have the first personal attack.

Not interested in a school-yard name calling match. Goodbye.

Forgot to add, Apple have also been doing this since their store opened. Have you ever tried to give away an Apple store game/app? Or sell an old Apple PC with OSX on it that you upgraded from the store? You can't, as it's locked to your account. It's almost worse with OSX, because you're likely selling the old Mac for a new one which will have the same OSX version on it anyway, making your old purchase totally useless, unlike a game which you could at least continue to play.

You didn't add the caveat "old games are sub $10", you just stated that steam games are sub $10. This is demonstrably incorrect. You might as well say "Ford cars are better than BMWs because they cost under $100", and not mention the fact you're talking about some 20 year old junker (mandatory car analogy completed!)

I tend to buy current titles, and I'd bet that's where the vast majority of game companies (and Steam's) revenues come from. Whether you do or not is totally irrelevant - the fact is, Steam sell the latest games for £30 or more, and prevent resale, or gifting after the game is used. Yes, I could only buy old stuff from 2011 to play on PC, but then I could also buy old "bargain bucket" games for the console too. The fact is that what Sony and MS are proposing to do is almost EXACTLY the same as what Steam have been doing for ages. I'm sure that eventually someone will find a way around the copy protection with the consoles, as they have with every prior generation.

With all this said, I'm a PC gamer, not a console gamer (though I've owned most consoles) but I don't kid myself that Steam are any better than any other company out there. They exist to make money; they're not your friend, or anyone elses. Everything a big company does, it does to increase its profits. There's no moral compass involved.