Actually I don't ask or demand anything from anybody, I observe and make my own choices and base my investments on my own understanding of what is going on and one thing is for sure, I am not with the crowd on any of it. I don't expect anybody to change anything based on any actual understanding, I expect things to fail in the way that I predict, that's all. As to my employees, they are paid fair market wages in the currency of their choice, in fact I have people that are paid in bullion.

My 'beloved' free market created the USA economy of 19th century that the socialist/fascist policies of 20th and the 21st century have successfully destroyed.

Violence happens whether there is free market or whether there is socialism of fascism. However a socialist / fascist / dictatorial system is violent by definition, its violence is delegated to the government structure, which means that it can only grow unchallenged by any internal competitive forces.

Free market will also have violence, there is not even a slightest question about it. The difference is very important: in a free market capitalist economy violence remains in the hands of private individuals, who can and will create systems, that will occupy the space that the violence wants to occupy. This space is left to the people that are unproductive but desire life that they did not earn, so they will attack the productive individuals and there will be Mafias created, not government bandits but private sector bandits.

They will compete with each other for turf and as with every competitive system the prices that the market has to bear will go lower, the prices that people will have to pay to the competitive Mafia market will be pushed down by the same competitive forces that push down prices for cell phones and MRI scans (and the only reason that health care prices go up is government counterfeit money and regulations, not technology, technology is progress that pushes prices lower, not higher).

My position is that organised crime in a free market capitalist society costs society much less than organised government. I never in my wildest dreams assume anything about people beyond the actual desire to benefit from every situation in some way.

There is no ideal society and I don't assume anything about human nature beyond desire to survive. People like you think that people like me assume something 'good' about the market participants, you couldn't be further from the truth. I assume that everybody who can take advantage of you will try to do it for their own gain and benefit. However in a free market capitalist economy you stand to gain more by working for the market than against it.

You stand more to gain by capturing hearts and minds of individuals the way largest companies of today capture them, Apple, Google, Tesla, whatever. Those are the actual free market players, not Haliburton, not Boeing, not General Motors, not F&F.

The reality is that you allowed yourself to be placed into a very tiny box by your government propaganda 'education' system.

Correct, all modern currencies are counterfeit, including the bitcoins. The countries that have high productive output, like China have currencies that are as counterfeit as the largest welfare recipients, like the USA.

Fake money is created all over the world to steal productivity of the individuals to subsidise the powerful government Mafia structures. The people are hurt, the wealth is stolen. The difference is that while the Chinese government is stealing from the Chinese people with inflation, USA government is stealing from the Chinese as well, such is the property of being 'world reserve currency'. You get to steal from other nations with your inflation while the rest can only steal from their own.

There is a sure way to tell if paper money is counterfeit and it doen't require blowing. Is it fiat printed by a government controlled agency and it has no savings behind it, as in there are no gold reserves that the paper came be used to redeem? It is counterfeit.

Real money is not created by a government but by voluntary market decisions. If a government controls issuing of currency and it removes free market regulations from the process then the government is counterfeiting the money.

Are your kidneys theft? You have kidneys, that's theft. Also your eyes and all other body parts, it's complete theft.

- the care for orphaned children is provided by private charities without any questions. As a child, your entire existence depends on others for some time, and yes, your parents brought you to this world it is their responsibility. If they don't want you plenty of charity orphanages exist around the world and in a free market environment adoption is much easier than what it is today. Plenty of people want to adopt children.

- and presumably you are a wanted child, if you are not, again, there are adoption and orphanage routes. Worst case scenario you get tossed into a trash bin, but those cases exist under any social/economic systems, the point of children has no merit in these discussions.

In fact the SS was originally set up in the states for 'widows and orphans', well it was an obvious welfare scam from the very beginning and should never have started, but it was because of the wrong idea that the market is unable somehow to deal with edge case scenarios that you want base the policy upon and cram it down everybody's throats.

- profit driven free market capitalist society is a wealthiest society that can possibly be built without violence against individuals, thus it is the most moral society and in such a society there are enough resources for every form of private care to exist, from charities and orphanages simply to adoption where it concerns children.

- nobody is and nobody should be. Forcing people is immoral however it is done.

However without government rules on hiring/firing practices there are no issues for people to find apprenticeship positions. I run a business and I have people that start working here for free just to learn the skills. Governments stand in the way of apprenticeship positions, many people would not refuse free / cheap labour and help in exchange for letting a person to work and learn on the job.

- wrong, capitalism is private ownership and operation of property and in a free market settings (absent government meddling) there is no need to force anybody to start businesses and to hire at market clearing prices.

Clearly you have a huge problem understanding what a market clearing mechanism absent government intervention is. You apparently want to force people to hire others or to force people to feed others for some unbelievable insane reasons that you interpret as 'morality', while what you are actually doing is engaging in the most immoral act of all: initiating act of violence against individuals.

- wrong, collectively you own absolutely nothing. Every time one can in such a 'collective ownership', one pulls the blanket to himself, stealing, cheating, doing whatever he can to take that 'collective' possession (a contradiction in terms) and make it his or her own individual possession.

- you are absolutely 100% wrong. Clearly you don't understand where wealth comes from and what it is.

When I build my systems I create new wealth that never existed before. When somebody takes some mud and turns it into a piece of art or into a brick they create some wealth that didn't exist before. When a person writes a book or a new sheet of music he creates wealth that didn't exist before and nobody gave it to them, it didn't exist, it was created out of nothing just because people wanted / needed to create it. Wealth comes from desire for better life and poverty comes from envy for the wealth of others and from desire to initiate violence and steal.

- in a free market capitalist system a capitalist can create more and more wealth and save it, which is great, that's how the capitalist can now invest into more and more ambitious projects and if his projects fail the rest of the society is not forced to pick up the pieces and repay the loss to the capitalist.

In the system we have today if you are a politically connected person, you are using the non-free market system, that provides you with advantages that are first stolen, taken away from individuals who are not free, but have violence initiated against them by the State to provide these non-free market redistributive pay outs to people that now have plenty of moral hazard accumulated in the system, plenty of reasons to gamble with money, be it their own savings or savings of anybody at all and they know that they cannot lose because there is the police, the army and the entire ridiculous government system standing behind them, giving them back anything they lose.

The real losers in your non-free market system are the poor of-course, because the rich will always have what they need but the poor suffer most under socialist/fascist/dictatorial systems, because there is no free market to grow the wealth at all, there is only one pie and as it shrinks the crumbs that you get are harder and harder to fight for, so you desire for bigger and bigger government to initiate force on your behalf to get you those crumbs.

You are eating yourself to death and you don't know it.

- tell me, how did you arrive to a situation in a free market capitalist economy where you and your friends have 'all the money' and 'all the property' and 'all the food'?

You are building a strange enough hypothetical situation, which falls apart once you realise that in a free market capitalist economy you could not arrive at that destination. You can't own everything around you while the rest of the people own nothing, that's not possible within an actual free market system, which requires that government is not preventing people from competition.

The only thing that actually creates real monopolies is government threat of violence. Today in Toronto UberX is being fought by the city government to try and protect the existing business models that the city is involved in (taxi licensing, etc.) and they do it under the guise of 'protecting the people'. Well sure, they are protecting some people at the expense of everybody else, who would rather do business with UberX than with government protected and licensed monopolies.

You create a hypothetical out of vacuum while pretending that a situation like that arises in a free market capitalist system, it does not.

In a free market capitalist system you are born a free person, a family or a charity is taking care of you or you while you are a child and eventually you learn from peers and become an apprentice in a business, studying it, learning the skills necessary to provide others within the same market conditions with the output of your own labour. You don't 'own everything', you only own what you can earn and with time your earning potential increases.

A situation with too much labour and not enough jobs only arises in government manipulated economies, which are not free market economies. In a free market capitalist economy markets discover prices that allow markets to clear, that means the prices adjust accordingly to the supply and demand for all things, including all types of labour and capital and land and other assets and resources.

So my argument doesn't fall apart, you can pretend that a situation that you describe will arise in such settings, but it does not, a situation that you describe arises in a non-free economy, in a non-capitalist economy.

A capitalist economy means private ownership and operation of property, this includes your own body and that is what gives us self determination - ability to operate our bodies free from government intervention and manipulation and our bodies extend to the fruits of our labour, which required us to input some kind of work, taking away from our leisure and doing work that somebody finds useful and is willing to exchange fruits of his/her for your productive output voluntarily.

In a situation when a person appears out of nowhere who has nothing and is in need of some help, people never refused others some help, but this is absolutely different from all forms of government tyranny, the tyranny of the State, that steals from us supposedly to 'help'.

It is unacceptable to declare some form of moral authority based on theft and initiation of violent force.

Capitalism (private ownership and operation of property) in a free market system (system free of government intervention) has proven to be the best system for generating profits while improving the overall economy for all people involved. People tossed out the free market and they are trying really hard to toss out capitalism as well, they saw all the wealth generated in a free market capitalist system and believe that that wealth is gained somehow immorally, however I argue that making profits in a capitalist free market system is the most moral way to run an economy.

I say the most moral and I mean exactly that:profit motive in a free market capitalist system is the most moral way to run an economy. All other ways to run an economy require reduction of freedoms (bigger government) and reduction of property rights (move from capitalism to any form of dictatorship, be it socialism or fascism, which are almost the same thing exactly or be it just a singular ruler or a feudal system). Anything that reduces individual freedoms is less moral than anything that increases individual freedoms. Anything that reduces private property rights and self determination through these rights is less moral than than anything that increases private property rights and self determination.

AFAIC the profit motive is the most moral way to run a society because it is the most moral way to run an economy without stealing and without using collective violence against an individual.

All of your claims are wrong and yes, you are using a ton of fallacies while making these wrong claims.

Lovely display of logical fallacies, one piled up on top of another. Every type of logical fallacy one can imagine, it's amazing how much nonsense is accumulated in your posts, it's quite a troll show you have performed here.

The irrational only wall here is you, don't talk about science, you don't know what it is and why we have it in the first place.

There are also no flying spaghetti monsters, talking flying unicorns, mice that turn into princesses when the clock hits 12. I don't have to prove any of it, I can come up with a million things that don't exist and are only a figment of my imagination, exactly in the same way that people that believe in 'souls' have done.

I claim knowledge that there is no pink flying spider octopus macaque with a huge diamond for a brain. I just invented that fantasy, it exists in my imagination but not outside of it. I don't have to prove that it doesn't exist, I can claim that it doesn't exist and the probability of my claim being wrong is in such low numbers as to being absolutely insignificant.

You can carry on with your fallacies now.

Clearly I am dealing with an attempt at trolling here, because there is no way somebody is this dense. So give it up already, ad hominem, appeal to authority, burden of proof fallacy, etc.etc.

I am certain that you believe you are having a ton of fun, it's nice to see somebody who has nothing better to do than to go through an alphabet list of fallacies while pretending they have an argument.

There are no souls any more than there are flying fire-breathing dragons and if you want to prove that there are fire-breathing that's fine, but you can't demand that everybody proves that there are no dragons, you have to prove their existence. Same applies to your 'soul' fantasies.

- hmm, I never said that, why are you putting words into my mouth that I never said?

Infants have rights because their parents want them to have rights and so their parents ensure their rights. You are a very strange individual.

Wrong, the claim is that we have no such thing as 'sou' that was ever measured or displayed in a measurable, repeatable way.

There is no measurement of 'soul', there is no place in our bodies where 'soul' resides, so that when a person dies the 'soul' continues existing. There is no reason to invent soul, it doesn't answer any physical question, it was invented just like trolls and gnomes and orcs were invented to give certain subset of population some comfort.

Comfort without any evidence, without any measurements, without any knowledge, it's self deception. So I can claim knowledge that this is self deception and was created for the purpose of self deception and control, but it was never measured, it was never observed, it was never present anywhere except for people's imaginations.