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Comment Re:Humiliation, Sexual Intimacy, the Gender War (Score 1) 211

You are correct. Every relationship is different, and every individual is different. But there are some generalities that can be made. For example, we are talking about men and women in programming. A great many of the men here are "pushing back," arguing for the purpose of keeping their territory.

Are ALL the men doing that? No, of course not. But there are forces at work here, there are real lives being lived here.

Intimacy is a mixed word, too. It can mean a lot of things. Here I am focusing on sexual intimacy -- I think this is where most ("a great many") men feel locked out.

And I will push it back further: Even men who are happily married -- even in relationships between men and women, where there is no plan to escalate to sex, -- there is still the push and pull of desire in (say) the workplace. There is an intimacy even in this field. Just because a man's sex life with his wife has dwindled to near nothing, and he has given up on sex with anyone else, -- it doesn't mean that there aren't feelings, and that these dynamics are alive and at work within him and her and the society.

I believe that sexual desire is like a nervous system within the social organism. It is always at play. When a group of men and women meet together for purpose A -- something like "making money together" (at a company,) or "going on a picnic" (at a gathering of friends) or "going to the movies" -- wherever there are men and women (or more generally: a "sexual landscape," to include the LGBTx,) -- there are always TWO channels. Channel "A" is the explicit, stated purpose, and then there is always, ALWAYS, Channel "B": the sexual nervous system. The networks of desire, shyness, bravado, temptation, hope, sadness, at play in the sexual realm.

I've gone a long way from your comment, but what I want to say is that "intimacy" is a large field. 2 people who don't even speak to each other, -- just see each other on the bus every now and then -- can (and often DO) have an intimate relationship. So that "intimacy" is vast.

Comment Re:Humiliation, Sexual Intimacy, the Gender War (Score 0) 211

And it's so obvious, right? Yes, you have translated well --

-- except for two things: 1. the judgement, one, and 2. -- (possibly) -- the shame.

There is a notion that men should be able to just "figure out" how to "get laid." That it's a man's job and duty to figure out how to fight the good fight to be smooth. That he needs to toughen up, and "just learn" somehow how to get women to want to have sex with him. Or perhaps it's impossible for him. Or perhaps he needs to learn how to dominate better.

There is nothing in such a man's life telling him that women do in fact already desire him. Rather, there is "faulting," that you have given an example of. Now he's a bad person, or a lazy person, because -- "hey, it's easy." But it's not easy to navigate sexual intimacy, and, further, -- he's not a bad person. He just isn't successful in love. The man and the woman haven't found out how to intimately relate, that's all.

It isn't a crime. And it also isn't his fault.

There are courses teaching men how to pick up. There is the pick-up artist scene, and on and on. There are people who will teach you how to play games. If you look at these courses though, ... You're going to find war, in the vast majority of cases. You are going to find war. It's like dropping your knife for an AK-47. You'll find success, of course. You can take out tons of people to look big, and win success. But the war does not change.

What we need to do, what I really believe we need to do, is to make a culture of love.

I cannot imagine that, if we had a culture of love between men and women, (and in all the sexual worlds, LGBTx,) that men would be trying to push women out of programming, trying to keep women out of programming.

That should be our objective. That should be what we are doing. That's how we can share programming, and every other field. Whether we are men or women, here is our hope.

Comment Re:Humiliation, Sexual Intimacy, the Gender War (Score 3, Insightful) 211

I'm not sure what you mean, but I will try to unpack some of the ideas.

"The Inside of the Home" and "The Outside of the Home." I am talking about the contemporary society, but also more broadly. Inside of the home is the space literally within the walls of a house or an apartment. Women tend to be the decorators, and in charge of the children, and in charge of care activities. I am not saying that this has to be the case; I am saying that that is how it tends to be in the majority of the cases in our society. Cooking, cleaning, household chores, childrearing, arranging doctor visits, and on and on. Also, interior decoration, arrangement, placements of objects, coordination of guests, and on and on. Even in dual income families, this is generally the pattern.

"Outside the home" refers to the political arena, the realm of work (in an office, in a quarry, at a factory, etc., etc.,.) Again, I am not saying that this is the required way things need to be. I am saying that this is how it tends to be.

The current fad of "man caves" -- or, homes within the home for men -- is a demonstration of this "Inside/Outside" division.

The "intimate violence" that men experience is the control that women hold over intimate relationships, by the withholding power of the "No." Men ask, women reject. The horrors of this were detailed by a woman named Norah Vincent who is a woman who lived as a man for a full year. She detailed exactly what it felt like to be approaching women as a man, and noted for the first time what it is like to be rejected as a man. Women frequently say, "I have been rejected, I know what it's like to be rejected; Man has nothing on me," -- but Norah Vincent actually knows that there is a difference between night and day between the two.

Women individually and collectively have the power to exclude and shame a man for his sexual advances, which he and he alone is required to make. How many tears have been shed by men because of the way that the sexual relationship plays out? This does not receive enough attention.

I am not saying that women are bad, any more than noble-minded feminists are saying that men are bed. I am saying that there is something needing analysis here, if we are going to truly understand what is going on in the relationships between men and women in -- and this is one offshoot -- in the programming battle as well.

Men know that they are at the mercy of women in the intimate sphere -- and they know where their powers are. Men know that their powers are in the programming sphere, in the trades sphere, in the political sphere, and on and on. Men do not want to disarm because women do not want to disarm.

I have already been called a misogynist, -- just for pointing out the game. The battle is alive and well.

Let's see; ... What else might be unclear, that *perhaps* I can give explain:

I said that "Women being the masters of the inside of the home places women as the masters of the inside of the heart." Here I am treating the home metaphorically -- but the message is very visceral and real. Men who love women but can never "make it work," or feel that they have to go through layers of game or interpretation or just giving up (humiliation) in order to "make it work" should be able to intuit what is going on, though. Men and women (heterosexual) have each other in a death-grip around the heart. We love one another, clearly, but we are in a war, we are in a battle. We need each other, and that need has become war.

Women can say "No," and hold themselves in reserve. Men can push her out or dominate her -- if not physically, then politically, economically, or "any means necessary," whether consciously or unconsciously. Of course, women can play the dominance game as well. But we all feel it. We know what is happening. We know when we are being pushed, and we know when we are pushing. At some level, we know.

My appeal is to people who dream for equality, true equality, and love, between men and women: To see the role that intimacy and romantic love play in this battle. I do not have a solution, but I don't need a solution. All I need is for you to *see this.*

Once you see this, you will be able to find out what to do, in your particular circumstances and more broadly. There will be nothing of coercion or force in the answer. Nobody needs to be forced to do anything that they don't want to do. You just need to be able to *see* this, and you just need to be able to hear the pain behind the arguing.

Comment Humiliation, Sexual Intimacy, the Gender War (Score 0, Troll) 211

I think that the way to understand the visceral reactions and willfully beligerant arguments on the behalf of so many men here, is to understand the intimate violence that men, and programmers in particular, have experienced at the hand of woman. I think that a lot of men intuit that their world is "outside" the home, and that women's world is "inside" the home. Women being the masters of the inside of the home places women as the masters of the inside of the heart. Since women say "no" to men's access to their own hearts space, their most intimate and sexual feelings, men feel that they have a right, and perhaps even a duty, to own the outer world.

To put it another way: If our culture was not sexually violent, if in our culture men had loving sexual intimate relationships with women, they would have no problems with women occupying "their" space. But in a culture of sexual humiliation of men, there is no way that they are going to give up "their" territory.

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