What's with the AC posting? Is this the /. variant of screaming and then covering your ears?

Anyway, from what I've read you're definitely on the left of the political spectrum. That's fine. However, coming from a country which suffered through roughly 50 years of "glorious" communism, excuse me if I tend to lean more towards the libertarian side.

Now to the "mind your own business" part. Indeed we are interconnected and other's people decisions affect our lives. This is precisely why a bit of selfishness is healthy. I like to be as independent as possible and leave the same freedom to others. And no, Stalin, Hitler or Pol Pot were genuinely thinking that they were doing the right thing. The masses propelled them powered by an idea of a Great Absolute Truth. If people wouldn't fall for that crap, dictatorships everywhere would crumble.

As for mindfuckery: persuasion deals with rational arguments, while manipulation deals with irrational ones (social conditioning,irrational fears and so on). The third item in the list is propaganda, but that doesn't really concern us. This is a distinction made by social scientists, not advertisers.

On to "ethical". Basically, my job consists of translating a product's features into product benefits. To give you an example let's take this sentence: "This new bathtub has a capacity of 120 liters". That's a feature. Now let me play with it: "With this bathtub, you can finally have those long, relaxing baths in virgin blood without splashing the floor like in a Lovecraftian novel.". This instantly prequalifies the leads and offers them a reason to buy the damn bathtub. Where's the unethical part?

Oh FFS, get off your high horse. To switch to an hominem attack, how exactly are YOU a hero? If you have the courage of your convictions, tell me how did you make this world a better place.

Speaking of compromise though, that was actually a fairly insightful observation. I am indeed a moderatist, in the Norberto Bobbio acception. I believe that virtually every catastrophic clusterfuck in human history has been caused by people claiming to hold the absolute truth. If everyone would just mind his damn business, we'd all be better off.

But I digress. The techniques you highlight are mostly employed in direct response marketing, a very US centric approach. Personally I avoid using such tricks. Not because I'm the "good guy", but because they are self defeating. In the long run, a business will make most of its money through repeat customers. Deceiving them is the quickest way to shoot yourself in the foot. Ethical behavior in marketing is actually the pragmatic approach and before you jump, yes, there is such a thing.

The problem is that good marketing does the job and goes virtually unnoticed while the crappy type, well, you've just described it.

What people perceive as marketing is actually only a fraction of what the field truly encompasses.

Take this very site for instance: I can detect at least 7 marketing techniques used right now. They work as intended, yet they don't seem conspicuous at all.

As for the good guy / bad guy thing, I'm no saint. I just prefer to focus on methods that work. The truth is that this entire shitstorm in advertising is not caused by a sudden explosion in the number of marketers, but rather by the lack of professional ones.

This entire internet revolution led to such a high demand for marketing services that most online entrepreneurs employ the DIY route. This, as you very well noted, has some absolutely horrifying results.

Now let me guess, this is your idea of a rational argument.

Alright, let's switch to troll mod.

I'm smart and creative enough to realize that the world has no heroes, only people who refuse to adapt to the world and try to make the world adapt to them.

I am one of those people. At one point I had to make a choice between a life of virtual slavery as a cubicle hamster and a risky, independent life as a freelancer. I chose the latter.

If that makes me a subhuman sociopathic manipulator then I accept this badge with pride.

And speaking of manipulation, marketers don't deal with that. It's called persuasion and it's a very different beast. I could try to explain the difference, but that would require you to think and not spew preconceived garbage. Kind of an useless effort, you must agree.

Now crawl back under that rock, you poor, unhappy soul.

Should I understand that you have a bias against plumbers?

Quite correct. But even non-commercial sites need visitors. Or do you think that only Walmart and Amazon employ this "highly controversial" tool called marketing?

Doesn't really work like that. I have to torture a few kittens and take a relaxing bath in virgin blood before I can get any decent sleep. It's why I find /. so attractive.

Thank you. It all makes much more sense now.

Right... Care to elaborate more or is this just your way of godwinning an argument?

I don't know... maybe the explosion of the frigging Internet? You might not be aware of it, but once an online presence is built, people don't exactly tend to flock to it. It's more like building a mall in the middle of the desert: The land is dirt cheap, but you will have problems finding customers. Marketing is a vital tool in this regard.

FTFY

Credit must be earned. So far, you've failed spectacularly in this regard.

If you act like an asshole, don't be surprised when you get kicked. You want a reasonable argument? Act like it.

A nerve you've hit. You directly attacked the integrity of myself and my profession.I know that to some people this might not mean much, but to me it does.

As for your "useful" advice, I've helped more people in my position of marketer than you could possibly imagine. I'm proud of my profession and I won't hesitate to defend it from douchebags who think they know it all.

P.S. Wise move in switching to AC posting. There's no better way to highlight the conviction of your beliefs.

I did RTFA but I also like confronting sources especially since NPR is not exactly the most trustworthy one.

Also the data still doesn't quite add up. In 21 years, not many people can enter the database (unless you put infants in it and deceased people are never purged) and there aren't any major urban centers to justify such high migratory patterns.

This is the best argument against the database state. Intentions might be good, but as long as they don't have the know how to secure the data, this type of information should be purged periodically or only kept in traditional archives. The government is not out to get you, but it's incompetent enough to let others harm you.

What I can't fathom is how a database from a county with 120.000 people can affect 200.000 of them.

Am I missing something here?

If Bill Hicks said it some 20 years ago, it must be right. Because everybody knows that nothing changed in this period. You're copypasta skills impress me.

Now I understand that with a name like Imakemusic you might consider yourself some sort of Messiah bringing upon the masses the glorious tunes of "Fruity Loops", but still aligning yourself with a rant like that on a topic you know jackshit about is beyond retarded.

If it wouldn't be so sad, it would be funny. Grow the fuck up and let the adults do their job.

I'm a marketer, you insensitive clod

It might have something to do with the structure of ISP's here. The most common type is the neighborhood company, which serves roughly 1000-2000 customers each on average. They basically serve only specific areas, they develop the local infrastructure as needed and there's intense competition between them. Right now I have 6 ISP's to choose from, each with its own infrastructure. When one ups the offer, the others usually follow.