It sounds like we agree on everything, except what it means to be poor. Maybe it is because I grew up poor. You are correct about the wealth distribution.....but the poor here in the midwest have nothing but themself to blame. The could easily become middle class with a bit of effort. This brings us to your point......is it worth the effort to become middle class as the quality of life there is slowly sucked dry. I thought we were talking about those without even food however.

I guess I do not understand how someone can starve in America. On my walk to work I can find enough change on the ground to buy a 2 pound container of dry goods at the local market. Heck, the number of fruit trees that people do not harvest from their yards indicates that food is still aplenty in the US. We are increasing our food exports to China afterall. Food is the one thing we have plenty of in the US.

Dandelion greens and other plants are always an option too.... based on your logic, things must be getting better. My parents and grandparents used to pick greens to stay alive, along with many extended family members. Not anymore. Now they garden them. The idea is the same however.

What percent of the population is living in these tent cities? You truly believe that this will happen to the entire middle class? Do you think then that 90% of the homes in this country will be empty? Really? Don't you think that maybe the home prices would drop....that supply-and-demand thing? Do you notice that prices are still dropping and home construction has stalled? It would seem to me, we have more than enough homes, which is why building more is not really what the market desires.
If people wouldn't buy a house and car they couldn't afford, they wouldn't lose them when times get tough. There are a few exceptions, but after the purchase price, you should just have the maintenance, utilities, and taxes. Americans do not buy a house they can easily afford, they buy one they can barely afford. Then they make payments on a car; a product that will eventually be worthless. Do we have problems with the wealth being sucked out of America? Yup. Does that mean you should be starving already in this country? Nope.

Also, I never said that I would blame the poor for anything. Please read again. I fully expect someone who is starving to steal if that means they can feed their family.

"Saying that they shouldn't be getting any help from those that control the vast majority of the wealth is just rather despicable."

This is not really what the conversation was about; we were discussing how handouts may relate in some way to crime and increased unemployment. You are correct however, the wealth difference is despicable. While I agree with your sentiment, and agree that there are individual exceptions, I do not really think that healthy food, reliable transport, nor quality time with your kids have to be expensive. People use that excuse to eat junkfood, drive a car they cannot afford, and let someone else raise their kids. Laziness seems to be the problem for the majority (not all) of those struggling economically that I know well. The path of least resistance needs to be carefully mapped for a majority of the population "to succeed". The homeless you speak of are the very poor. The general poverty group is usually defined as the lowest 10 to 20 percent of the population here in the US. Few of those are homeless.

I agree entirely. Laptops have even been reduced here though. In our office, 2/3 of the laptop users have undocked their laptop maybe once per year. They discovered they did not really need a laptop, and now they are discovering they really do not need a tablet. We have even had a few users request a tower, and one even requested switching to a thin client! They might be learning.......i will surely get a reality check with some support calls this afternoon however.

I agree entirely, I know some as well. I just wanted to point out that crime may increase as a result.....so the true cost may also go up. Giving money out to bums keeps the money in this economy, at first anyway. There are other government programs which spend the money in far less economically beneficial ways. By my own logic however, the increase in crime would keep the prison and legal systems well funded, also spending money in this economy. I am just saying, it isn't as one sided as you propose.

I agree entirely. Excellent points. Also, I would like to point out that Americans are still driving to the store to buy 1 or two items....so clearly they are not hurting that bad. Processed food costs more than staples, yet it still sells. Gas is considered expensive, even though Americans are still sitting in their work parking lots during break times with the car running (usually smoking while on their expensive cell phones, also expensive). Americans have no idea what true poverty even is. Heck, my family is well below what is considered poverty in our area.....and we actually feel like we are pretty well off. Go figure. Our kids could get free school lunch even, but we turn it down.

I disagree with this point however.

But I will note that giving poor people loads of guarenteed no-strings money has never worked, not here, not in somalia, not pretty much anywhere. If you incentivize not working, people will not work, or will find a way to exploit the situation.

It would seem that those who do not work are taking the path of least resistance. Crime seems to be that path when they are not paid to sit quietly.

We have rolled out almost every type of tablet as a test to our users. They have claimed that they were needed, and loved them at first. A after a few weeks, the vast majority of the users have said that they rarely use it anymore....and now are back to their laptop. The biggest reason....."the tablet really needs a keyboard attached to it". The only users still using their tablet tend to carry a wireless keyboard with it. Others even carry a docking station around too. At that point, why not just have a netbook? The 12 and 13 inch netbooks seem to make our users far happier.

For the record, we have tried the HP slate, HP webOS products, ipad, blackberry playbook, and one other that I am forgetting. All end in the same results......."I wish it had a keyboard".

Maybe for sitting on the couch they work, but for productivity they seem to have been a flop around here. The only use they have left is for salesmen to put photos on....it is convenient for them to show photos to clients (and the pads look high tech for the impression factor).

While I do enjoy watching a few minutes of that new show "Wipeout", I wonder what the aliens will think of that! I guess It will either show how durable the human form is, or how weak the human brain is.

Do you know why he left? I remember hearing this myth long ago and he sounded more like a disgruntled employee to me. Either way, it had nothing to do with the core values of Greenpeace. I am pretty sure this myth was debunked long ago... Greenpeace mostly seems to concentrate on nuclear issues and whaling now.....probably for the publicity. Either way, agree or not, I respect the activist nature. Americans sure seem lacking in passion for the public good these days. We need more of this, even if we all differ on the exact direction we should go.

You keep watching American Idol and plan to switch planets, let the others keep trying to promote a better future for those that want to stay on this planet.

How is this still mostly good? It does not look at those with obstacles, just skin color? We already have a financial aid system which looks at obstacles. I was born into a poor white family. I had to work my tail off for everything, while my minority friends were handed entrances into college and even allowed to skip some of the harder courses (under the premise that minorities always struggle in those courses so it is only fair to let them skip....everyone struggled). Now, quite a few of them have degrees that they honestly did not earn.

Doesn't that degrade the value of the degree for everyone?
Also, doesn't that spread true racism in many ways. Think of the aftermath when they compete for jobs with those that actually took the courses.

What do you think our great*n-grand-children will do when they live on an overpopulated planet and find one with just a handful of natives?
I don't know that our species is smart enough for space travel....and we do not appear to be getting smarter. It is more likely that we are invaded because other planets are sick of watching our reality TV broadcasts.

We have the Greenpeace idiots, which seem to care more about the planet than our species and individuals.

I just have to say that this seems an odd statement. You assume our species and individuals do not benefit from those who try to save the natural world. While I do not agree with every action of Greenpeace, this is quite the sad statement.

Replies to this have mostly been said in the other posts, but I think some insight needs to be given on China. Yes, they did have to open up their markets in order to compete on a global scale....but they are in dire need of government regulation in many areas. Within the next 10 years, if they do not develop an improved set of environmental and building codes, they are in trouble. While I have not been to China, the salesmen I work for are stationed there. Without some regulation in place, the quality of life of the Chinese is going to be far worse than it should be in such good economic times. Yeah, building and environmental codes will require oversight, and will cost business money..........but the point you miss in all of this is that more money does not really mean a better life for the voters.

I will watch your video, when I can get the link to actually work. Darn slashdot.

You might say you are not a republican, but your economic theory suggests that you are....even if you do not want to belong to the group.

I would suggest doing more reading on history, and less on politics. When a government steps aside and let businesses run the show....all nations have ended up in the situation we are in right now. I do agree with you about the inflation issue however.....but inflation is probably inevitable considering the debt we are carrying.

Our politicians, at least here in Wisconsin, are currently puppets for big businesses and getting every bill passed that they want. Do you think this has helped our economy? It sure has not helped the quality of our water supply now that businesses can dump phospherous again. And now they pushed a bill through trying to kill the small family breweries. The small brewers, family businesses, are going down hard. The list can continue for days here in Wisconsin. Again and again, ever since the Reps took over, big business has got the govt to step aside and give them full control of the state. I have traveled all around the country....the states with the strongest anti-govt stance are by far and away the most difficult to find a job.

I cannot find the source I was hoping to use, and this is not an original source.....but check it out. When the govt gets involved, good things can happen. When the govt steps asside......profits are pocketed. http://blueworksbetter.com/PresidentsGDPGrowth

Great conversation guys. Just my personal experience here, but I would sweat far less biking at 10mph than I would walking at 4mph. Well, I would sweat mildly in both situations....but biking would be far less.

A healthy conversation on Slashdot....kudos to you both, but I think your math is highly dependent on the climate. Here in Wisconsin, you would not sweat at all at 10mph for 6 months of the year. You would actually be burning extra calories just to stay warm. Then there is 1 month where you would need a shower at work. Most cyclists around here do not shower at work except during the warmest month of the summer. At that time, a cool shower feels good however.

Also, I would guess that biking burns far fewer calories per mile (which are turned into heat) because you do not have to push down the hills.....you get the earned potential energy back. The walker is always fighting gravity....up or down.

It seems that history and basic economics are not on your side. First, the idea that government regulation are killing industry is bordering on insane. A lack of government regulation and intervention has almost ruined this economy, just like it already has ruined others. Look at the nations that have never been able to succeed economically....the lack of government control and regulation has been the problem. China is going to need far more government control and regulation to continue that economic growth, it is very clear. Second, businesses being untaxed is a recipe for disaster. There is no insentive to reinvest in your employees, infastructure, or business. Instead, the insentive is to hoard the cash. The trend them seems to be that executives are paid millions and competition is bought out....reducing competition, efficiency, and global competitiveness. Why does it seem like the loudest republicans are the ones with the worst grasp on economics? I was a replublican once.... but now the party is ruined. There is a complete loss in commmon sense. The republican party is no longer about building a stronger America, it is about making the wealthy wealthier....and tricking the sheep into following them out of fear that the sky is falling. "The government leeches wealth..." hah, priceless.

"This is why we need to just break up the country into smaller regional nations."

Don't we already have this with the states? So, you believe in giving more power to the states, and less to the Fed. I agree....just clarifying.