Vanguard - Saga of Heroes Previewed

Labyrrinth writes "The media blitz for the upcoming release of the new MMOG, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes has begun with 2 independent previews at IGN and Gamespot . From the article at Gamespot 'In days of old when knights were bold, elves with pointy sticks would totally beat up on a bunch of skeletons. You may have seen online games that take place in high-fantasy worlds, but recently, these games have become much more lenient on players, so that exploring, fighting, and even falling in battle has relatively minor consequences. Not since EverQuest of 1999 (a game that was infamously punishing back then and was clearly one of the main reasons why newer games got easier) has a new massively multiplayer game tried to offer a well-thought-out, but purposely steep, challenge.'" Normally I don't think previews are noteworthy, but Vanguard has been practically a black hole of information since development began.

Difficult != Bad

[MMaestro]

If done properly Vanguard might steal away WoW's long term thunder. Simply put, MMOs are designed for the hardcore. Theres no exception about it. If its too 'casual' geared, hardcore gamers will simply blow through the content too quickly (hitting level 60 in two weeks in WoW anyone?) Any new 'casual' content will simply be scoffed off by players who don't want to start a new character to get 'the full experience' or will be blown through by people who are loaded up with enough uber-gear that then can solo most of it. (Wheres the new mid-level content in WoW?)

The only problem with current 'hardcore' geared MMOs is the fact that most developers design their systems with the 'ship now, add content later' mentality. This leads to gamers blowing through the early levels so quickly, developers are forced to focus on end-game content and ignore 'mid-game' content. A MMO that can be challenging yet not end-game focused (organizing and planning a 40-man raid is simply frustrating and time consuming) would be an excellent for gamers. Face it, as much as people talk about WoW as 'the best MMO evar!', they generally end their statements with 'I just wish there was more mid-game content.'

How many MMO fans want their game to be harder?

[jchenx]

After playing WoW, how many MMO fans are going to want their game to be harder? One of the greatest things about WoW is the relative ease of the game. You DIDN'T have to do corpse runs, there wasn't any notion of experience loss or debt, and there were many ways for instant travel around the world. I look back to my days playing the original EQ and while it was fun, much of it was because it was new. It's not something I'd want to play again, since I'd miss a lot of the things that WoW had. I'm not saying every MMO now has to be a blatant rip-off of WoW now, but I do wish that some features become more standard.

Also, some of the gameplay mechanics that Vanguard is keeping from EQ (like corpse runs, harsher death penalties, lack of instances), contributed to a lot of problems in EQ and it'll probably be the same for Vanguard. Here a few examples:

1) Equipment remaining on corpse after death (ie. corpse runs) - Just not fun when you lose all your items in the middle of a dungeon, and no one is around to help you anymore. There are many people that give up in this case.

2) Death penalty (experience debt, and the above corpse issue) - Everyone played like a chicken in EQ, afraid to tackle major challenges, being ultra-paranoid about pulls, etc. I know many groups just huddled around the entrances to many zones, so that they could have an easy escape if something went bad, because NO ONE wanted to die. In WoW, dying is still inconvenient, but it's no where near as punishing. I've tackled on many challenges, knowing that there was a good chance that I would die, but taking the risk was fine. It's very hard to do that in an MMO with a much larger death penalty.

3) Lack of instant travel options - I understand that it's more realistic when the world is large and actually takes time to traverse. But it's not fun when your friends or guild members are in another part of the world, and it's going to take you hours to join them. Being able to travel the world and explore lots of places with relative ease is a GOOD thing. Having mounts being more accessible in Vanguard (and flying mounts too!) is definately a good step, but you're still missing out on more instant travel mechanisms (like the many teleport spells in WoW, as well as your heartstone).

That said, I do like some of the new features in Vanguard, specifically that of housing. Okay, it's not new, since UO had it, but it sounds like they're doing a better job of limiting the problems that game had (houses everywhere!). I'd also like to hear more about the crafting system, since that's supposed to be a lot more involved than something like WoW.

A Long Time EQ Player

[Puhase]

For those of you WoWer's who never went through the Everquest days let me give you some situations where a "harder" game may have consequences:

Imagine having to spend 10+ hours of grinding to get level 29.

Imagine doing a 5+ endgame raid where you finally get the boss and you lose the roll on the loot. And so you leave your computer having lost almost a complete level of experience with wipes and not much to show for it. (And you though get groups together was hard)
Now imagine trying to keep a guild together or just general group tension down when wiping with any party can cost you the exp equivalent of 3-4 hours of mob grinding. Plus a ton of extra time and money in regents from having to summon all your corpses from under the feet of "Baron VonAssbeater".
I had alot of fun with EQ and a pretty successful guild. But I was also a teenager and this was the best that was available at the time. There is No Way in Hell I would put up with that stuff now.

Re:All the annoyances of Everquest, but more so

[I Like Pudding]

Let me get this straight- long travel times,

Short travel times = no locality. Does it matter where you are if you can be on the other side of the world in 10 minutes? This also concentrates the market furthur into the big trade hubs since it is so easy to get to them. I actually prefer the long travel times, so long as the game is set up in a way which supports it (don't force people to the ends of the earth every 5 minutes). Makes the world feel bigger.

corpse runs, heavy death penalties

Some people find this play dynamic much more interesting, especially if there is PVP involved. For instance, I'm currently heavy into EVE Online. In that game, when you get blown up, you lose the ship and anything it was equipped with or carrying (which is mitigated partially by insurance). This is quite interesting, especially considering that 2/3rds of the map is lawless PVP space. The entire game revolves around risk and risk management. Feel like making a ton of money in PVP space doing trade runs? Well, you better not die with a cargo hold full of a billion isk worth of Protein Delicacies unless you have the money to cover it. I have felt more fear and adrenaline playing that game than in any other MMO.

money and xp grinds

Welcome to every MMO EVER. The treadmill is always there, but only feels like one when you are not having fun. I ground from about 52 to 60 on my NE rogue at the 4th cauldron in WPL over the course of a week and barely even felt it because I loved the combat and hairyness of the spawn so much.

I'm supposed to want to play this?

Yes, if you were/are an EQ player. There are quite a few of those out there.