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Journal AceM2's Journal: Typical liberals and their view of the military 22

Journal by AceM2

I'm sure my journal entry isn't all that revolutionary as far as pointing this out, but as I'm running into it more and more... I feel the need to write *something* about it.
      Every day, I hear the arguments about who's more patriotic and such. I get tired of this crap from people like Michael Moore pretending that they support the military. Look, you're not supporting the military just because you're not calling soldiers 'baby-killers' and claim you don't want them to die. Just to appease the other side, I will also say that mindless flag waving and chanting "USA! USA!" doesn't make a person ultra-patriotic in my eyes either.
    To get to the point, I mentioned Michael Moore for a reason, but I don't mean to only bash him. It's just that he seems to be the most visible example of what I dislike. Another example, lately at the college and such I see flyers and ribbons saying, "Support our troops - Bring them home". Is this what we tell our sports players? Gosh, I love our football team, but why do they have to go all the way out to the superbowl? I mean, of course, we want our loved ones safe and sound, but you don't support someone by telling them they aren't doing a good job and need to come home. At this point, it's probably not wise for me to speak out against anyone specifically, but I have to wonder how some people can say they're supporting the troops by wanting them home safe, but then turn around and support voting against giving the soldiers equipment they need in the field.
      Look, I am not *yet* a soldier, but as long as nothing bad happens between now and the end of my training, I will be one. I have told my family that no matter what happens to me, I would feel betrayed and *not* supported if they were to act like Michael Moore and company. I willfully chose to become a soldier, and I would rather hear a person say they hate me rather than use me as a political tool.
      So I think to myself, not all of these people have political motivations, so why do they feel this way? They say they support the troops, but their actions are obviously anti-military. I talked to a girl recently, going out on a date. She didn't know I was military bound yet, and it seemed we had a lot of the same interests and the same sense of humor. Thing is, about half way into the date we're talking about the future and I tell her about the military. Wow, she changed quite a bit. She supposedly supports the troops and thinks it's amazing that I'm joining, but after that all she asks about is why would I want to it, why does someone with a 3.9 gpa want to be infantry, am I just using it for college money, can't I get a job somewhere else? She decided on that point that she doesn't want to get to know me, but "Good luck in the Army!" I told one of my instructors at school, and she actually pleaded with me saying she'd get me letters of recommendation and such if I tried to get a scholarship, as if college money had anything to do with me joining the military. She tells me that she doesn't want me to have to go to Iraq and be 'cannon fodder'. Thing is, her car has one of those yellow support the troops ribbons on it. That's great, you support the troops, but you don't want anyone else to join the military.
      These are just a couple examples, but it's what I hear constantly. I now tell girls immediately that I'm going to join the military just to avoid problems later on. Usually this results in some fake patriotic wow I'm so proud of you! You'll look awesome in a uniform blah blah See ya later. Guys aren't as bad given it's a totally different situation, but even they don't *get it*. A lot of the people who are prior service, active duty, or shipping off get it, but you still have those people who don't know why they're joining the military or are only joining for the benefits.
      Being Infantry is the worst though. No one understands why you would want to put your ass on the line like that, which is exactly what I've been getting at. 90% of the liberal leaning people I meet see the military as a welfare institution. It all makes sense to me now as far as how they can support it. The left wing, sensitive, metrosexual, get-in-touch-with-your-feminine-side portion of the population would never ever be able to go along with the military's traditions and values if they actually viewed them for what they are. The new advertising campaigns are actually even geared up for these people. Army of One? 150 jobs? College? Learn skills for the future? What?! What happened to the idea of pushing yourself to the limit, fighting for God, Country, and Honor? Getting your ass in the grass because you owe it to those who fought and died for you before you were born? No... The average liberal seems to think the military exists as a job placement program. In fact, it actually fuels their later arguments.. That the military exploits poor people, that we shouldn't fight, etc,. Look, if you don't want to fight, don't join the military. Even if you're a chef, you're going to have to fire a rifle sometime in your career.
      If you serve your country and then take your college money and skills elsewhere, that's fine, you did more than most people, but please... I only want two little things! One, I'm sick of constantly hearing this garbage from people like Jessica Lynch, people who thought the military was there to serve them... That they wouldn't be in combat... whine blah blah whine. Two, if you don't support the military mentality, please stop saying you support the troops, because unless they were hauled off kicking and screaming... The military is who they are. You cannot hate everything about the military and still support the troops, it is a contradiction.

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Typical liberals and their view of the military More

Typical liberals and their view of the military

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  • Wow (Score:2)

    by On Lawn ( 1073 )

    Well done. I'll add it to my bookmarks.

    Christopher Hitchens calls the claim of patriotism/supporting troops as "clearing the throught" before speaking. It realy does come across rhetoricaly and not sincerely when they advocate demoralization of America, and claim that they stopped shy of meaning that should impact the troops in any way.
  • Is Football different than War?

    ...lately at the college and such I see flyers and ribbons saying, "Support our troops - Bring them home". Is this what we tell our sports players? Gosh, I love our football team, but why do they have to go all the way out to the superbowl? I mean, of course, we want our loved ones safe and sound, but you don't support someone by telling them they aren't doing a good job and need to come home.

    I know you know football is just a game. As such it has rules. Everyone kno

    • The Iraqis really hate the USA now. I don't believe there is ever going to be an Iraqi government that is both democratically elected and friendly to the United States.
      Unless you have visited Iraq personally and have discussed the subject with a few thousand randomly selected Iraqis, I'm going to stick with my current theory that you watch way too much TV.

      US forces killed too many of them.
      They killed more of each other than we killed of them.

      And they imprisoned and sexually humiliated some Iraqis in

      • They died so that Nixon didn't have to say, "we can't win" .

        They died because Kennedy, then Johnson, then Nixon refused to win. We didn't fight to win in Vietnam. We fought to not lose. The whole point was containment, to stop the spread of Communism. It was never victory.

        I asked Ace what he thought it would mean to "win" in Iraq, and I will ask you what you think it would mean to "win" in Vietnam.

        I have been hearing this notion that the USA could have won in Vietnam for thirty years.

        • I think "winning" would've meant the surrender of North Vietnam. I think that could've brought that about, and I think the chemical warfare thing was an idiotic idea. Then again, I think it's been an idiotic idea since it was invented. What it would've taken was a serious invasion. I mean, a calvary movement through the jungle killing anything hostile in the way. I mean a massive bombing campaign. Yes, it would've resulted in a hell of a lot of civillian deaths, and it would've decimated the entire co
        • I think his point about the refusal to win in Vietnam had very little to do with what weapons were used and all to do with strategy. You can drop all the damn bombs you want, but if they don't hit the right targets it doesn't matter. Project Phoenix? Ooh scary, assassinations and imprisonment during time of war... Agent Orange? A plant defoiliant is not exactly the best example of chemical weapons. Like I said, it's all a matter of how you use what's available to you. A nuclear bomb dropped in a remo

      • The Iraqis really hate the USA now. I don't believe there is ever going to be an Iraqi government that is both democratically elected and friendly to the United States.

        Unless you have visited Iraq personally and have discussed the subject with a few thousand randomly selected Iraqis, I'm going to stick with my current theory that you watch way too much TV.

        Your concern about my TV viewing habits is touching. Touching, but misplaced. You see, I read. I read of polls of Iraqi attitudes. News of

        • This is why I would encourage Ace to put a higher value on his life, and not enlist where his life would be put at risk in order to enrich Bush's corporate cronies.

          Here it is everyone! This is exactly what I have been talking about in my journal entry. People who use soldiers to get their political message across. They act like they care about you, but all they really care about is getting Bush out of office. It's the old salesman trick, "Son, you know I got to thinking and... Well I just don't thin

        • The USA invaded their country. Can you explain why a member of the Iraqi resistance should not regard a GI as an enemy combatant? There is a war of words on. These Iraqi resistance fighters are called "insurgents". This term is inappropriate. An insurgent is someone who is trying to overthrow a legitimate authority. Calling them insurgents implies that they are resisting a legitimate authority.

          There is a government in place in Iraq. The "resistance fighters" are insurgents as much as anyone in America wo

          • There is a government in place in Iraq. The "resistance fighters" are insurgents as much as anyone in America would be insurgents if they started fighting against the government.

            Perhaps you could explain this more fully?

            Why is a foreign appointed leader, a more legitimate leader than, let's say, Ayatollah Sistani? Allawi does not have the legitmacy of being elected. Neither does Sistani, but he has the benefit of not being a long time exile, who was once on the payroll of a foreign intelligence s

            • If they resisted Castro's forces with force, would you call them terrorists?

              I most likely would if they were attacking the civilian population as well as Castro's forces. Now, I might favor them over Castro, but that's a different matter. The fact is, we have to look at other factors here. Who is trying to help out the Iraqi people? Who is trying to get them to elect their own government? Hmm? Now, switch over to the terrorists. Rather than working with America to bring in a true democracy where th

              • And, as I recall, the opposition elements were being called "insurgents" long before the official handover to the appointees.

                This is mainly due to the fact that their isn't really a better word for these people.

                Well, we can't control what other people call them. Since you don't like me calling them the "resistance", and I have don't agree with you calling them "insurgents", I will suggest a compromise. I will refer to them as "opposition elements".

                One of the concerns has been that if the I

                • I will refer to them as "opposition elements".

                  Why not "the enemy"? ;)

                  I didn't dream that up. I watch these public affairs shows. Various politicians and professional political commentators voiced this concern. And I wouldn't call it a prediction. I called it a concern. So, you would support their right to set up a government like Iran's?

                  Concern is different... I have concern that I'll twist my ankle when I run... Or that my car's alternator will suddenly decide to suicide while I'm far from home. Of
                  • Ace, you have convinced me. You and I disagree about a lot of things. But I can see you are a smart, principled guy. You sound like you have the bravery and integrity to refuse an illegal order, and the brains to know when it was illegal. The US Army needs more guys like you. So, you go ahead and sign up. I hope you end up being given an early opportunity to exercise leadership there.

                    I wish you every success, and I hope you come home safe and sound, in body and mind, without regard to whether the ex

            • By the way, this link [freechipfrederick.com] doesn't really impress me much. I don't know who they are, but what I see here is conspiracy theory and people who can't deal with the realities of war. Have you ever studied WWII? Conditions were much much worse... The fact is, you can't always have things the way you want. Don't like it? Don't join the military. Most of this garbage you posted doesn't even concern my journal entry.
              • Who are they? I believe this site was just what it represents itself as -- the work of the relatives of one of the soldiers accused of abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib. I wrote the one email address they listed, wvpttyfogr@labs.net [mailto]. I asked some questions about answer 18 from their FAQ -- their attitude towards Sgt Darby, [latimes.com] the whistleblower. If you read that far you see they denounce Darby. But in answer 13 they say that Frederick also tried drawing the attention of his superiors to the abuse. So I ask
                • I should probably attempt to do a line-by-line reply again, but at this point I really don't feel like it. Most of your posts in my journal only prove what I've been saying, that people claim to have the interests of the soldiers in mind, but then criticize what they do in war. Why even have a military at all? This is an all-volunteer military (and don't even try that IRR call up crap, I had no less than 4 people at MEPS explain it to me BEFORE I took the first oath). Yes, war is hell at times, but sold
    • What does it mean to "win" in Iraq? President Bush said that the USA was going to turn Iraq into a shining example of what a western style secular democracy is like. He said that this secular democratic Iraq was going to be the first domino in a gradual conversion of the whole middle east into secular democracies.

      I don't remember him stating the domino theory, but that sounds reasonable to me. Why not? Democracy is a good thing regardless.

      Do you think this is ever going to happen? The Iraqis reall
  • Who is profiting from the Iraqi occupation? This article [thenation.com] describes the inadequate way Bechtel is fixing the Iraqi water and sewage systems. It is heart-breaking.

    Bechtel was awarded no-bid sweetheart contracts, worth 2.8 billion dollars. They have done practically no work on this desperately important project.

    It looks terribly corrupt.

    Enlisting to keep your country safe is one thing. Enlisting to preserve the profits of corrupt companies though -- is that something you want to risk your life for?

    • Who is profiting from the Iraqi occupation? This article describes the inadequate way Bechtel is fixing the Iraqi water and sewage systems. It is heart-breaking.

      I really don't care who gets the money or whether they even have to bid on it or not. Sounds like Bechtel just needs to get their act together. Mail your congressperson... Or go picket Bechtel or something, this has nothing to do with what I've been talking about. Bechtel's slowness working inside a war zone is a seperate matter entirely.

      It
    • Who is profiting from the Iraqi occupation? This article describes the inadequate way Bechtel is fixing the Iraqi water and sewage systems. It is heart-breaking.

      "Inadequate", huh? Where's the Canadian contribution?

      Bechtel was awarded no-bid sweetheart contracts, worth 2.8 billion dollars. They have done practically no work on this desperately important project.

      As usual with your claims, this isn't true. (Reality regarding the months-long bidding process here [usaid.gov].) As I've pointed out before, you seem to

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