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Journal capoccia's Journal: Is Bush the Christian’s Best Choice? 30

Journal by capoccia

Dr. Patrick Johnson, in his essay, "Why Christians Should Not Vote for Bush," challenges the general assumption of conservative Christians--that Bush is a good choice for President because he represents traditional Christian values. Johnson shows how Bush does not hold to traditional Christian values on the issues of abortion, sodomy and others. He also rebuts the "lesser of two evils" voting mentality.

Of course, being that he is the current Vice-Chairman of the Constitution Party, Johnson is not afraid to tout the 2000 candidate, Howard Phillips, or imply that Michael Peroutka is the best candidate for this year's race.

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Is Bush the Christian’s Best Choice? More

Is Bush the Christian’s Best Choice?

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    • I think that your average Christian would argue that the president isn't at all responsible for the moral decline of America.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Are you serious?? Media has more sway than government could possibly hope for. Unless kids and young adults spend their time watching the news and CSPAN they are barely getting any exposure to governmental figures, and the news coverage is only the exciting bits of the government.

          Kids spend their time watching movies, sit coms, MTV, Comedy Central... These are the outlets that hold sway over the young. This is where their opinions are formed.

          But I do understand, and agree, that the leader of a nation
    • Good point. Just because someone isn't your perfect candidate, do you vote against them and wait for one that matches your ideals to come along? Not if you are smart.

      jason
  • when George Walker Bush was Governor of Texas. If a candidate for governor wants to project a tough on crime platform - that is fine. And if the candidate proclaims he won't ever stay an execution - that is certainly his right. For me however, the sixth commandment says if you have a choice, to not murder, you need to take it.

    Yes, you are going to find people who argue it costs too much to house a criminal for life. The counter argument is that we live in the wealthiest country on the planet - we can affor

    • For me however, the sixth commandment says if you have a choice, to not murder, you need to take it.

      That assumes, however, that you consider executions to be 'murder'; there are plenty of parts of the Bible which specifically mandate killings and thus seem to contradict your interpretation. ("Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?" Sounds like ordering an execution to me...)

      Yes, you are going to find people who argue it costs too much to house a criminal for life. The counter argument is that we live in

      • I see your point, and am happy to let you keep it. ;-)

        For me, capital punishment does seem to violate the sixth commandment; I remember reading somewhere that judgement is supposed to be reserved to the Lord. If it takes a lifetime of inprisonment for someone to repent, I want to give that person that opportunity. They will still die in prison I expect, but at least they were given decades with which to make things right.

        Your point about "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?" - it does sound like demand

        • Your point about "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?" - it does sound like demanding the death penalty. I couldn't find it at biblegateway.com. That doesn't mean it is not there, just that I don't know its context.

          Exodus 22:18
          • KJV [biblegateway.com] -- Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
          • NIV [biblegateway.com] -- Do not allow a sorceress to live.

          The context is Exodus 22:18-20 (NIV) [biblegateway.com]:

          Do not allow a sorceress to live. Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death. Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LOR

          • I was going to list the many places where death is required for an action and the death is to be carried out by the people, not by God.

            There are some places in the Bible where God performs the act of taking the life. Even in the new Testament (where the husband and wife pretend to have given all the money from a field to Paul so that they look good to everyone else). However, the punishment of someone was left up to the people to follow God's law that he already established.

            Now... most of this law and p
            • In case someone wants a reference, that reference in the NT is to Ananias and Sapphira [biblegateway.com] who sold a field and lied about the price, keeping some, and gave the rest to Paul but lied saying that it was the full price of the field.

              This was not murder. This was "just" a lie. But it was more than that which is why God acted through Paul to uncover the lie, and why God acted directly to strike the couple with instant death.

              jason
          • Thank you for that. I was in a bit of a hurry, and didn't think to try the King James version.

            So now I have to decide if I'm o.k. with GWB getting all 'old testament' on my neighbors, eh? Hmmmm....

        • For me, capital punishment does seem to violate the sixth commandment; I remember reading somewhere that judgement is supposed to be reserved to the Lord. If it takes a lifetime of inprisonment for someone to repent, I want to give that person that opportunity. They will still die in prison I expect, but at least they were given decades with which to make things right.

          If judgement is reserved to the Lord, thus prohibiting capital punishment, why is non-capital punishment OK? It's still judgement, just wit

    • I've never really heard Christians who are against the dealth penalty respond to Romans 13:1-7 (emphasis mine):

      1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for

      • Good points. The general laxity regarding God's view of his honor, name, and reputation is almost always understated if not totally absent in teachings by the Evangelical non-denomination churches of today.

        God is Love, but he also is called a jealous God. God protects His name and His reputation. Christians and non-believers alike love to point out the budy-budy, "aba father," love one another, repent and you are forgiven, aspect of God.

        They forget about the God that killed a priest, his priest Uzzah a [biblegateway.com]
      • I would argue that although life in prison is easier on a criminal than the death penalty, it is far from easy. I'm not anti-punishment, I'm anti- capital punishment.

        Charles Manson hasn't had it as bad as his victims, but still, every decade or so he gets something akin to this:

        Parole Board Member: Mr. Manson, we have reviewed your record of behavior this last decade, and have decided to recommend you for parole.
        Charles Manson: Really?
        Parole Board Member: No. [/Nelson] Ha HA!

        Seriously, this has got to

        • A very well-thought out response. I think I better understand your position.

          It looks like we do disagree on two points:

          First, we disagree that life in prison is a worse punishment than death. I've often heard that said, but I'm not sure if one was really faced with the choice, they would think death is easier. Also, I happen to think the Bible is fairly clear through both New and Old Testaments that the punishment for spilling blood should be the most serious punishment available.

          Second, there is

          • First, we disagree that life in prison is a worse punishment than death. I've often heard that said, but I'm not sure if one was really faced with the choice, they would think death is easier. Also, I happen to think the Bible is fairly clear through both New and Old Testaments that the punishment for spilling blood should be the most serious punishment available.

            Second, there is a theological issue in regards to repentence. Being a reformed minded thinker, I happen to believe that regardless of how much

            • However, there is nothing wrong with showing mercy.

              There is plenty of examples of the burning anger that God has for the lack of punishment of sin. Murder is the most serious of sins. It is destroying the very image of God. The Bible speaks of God's anger at nations that do not avenge the murder of the innocent. That's not to say that there is no salvation for a person who has committed this sin, but for it to go unpunished, or punished in a non-severe manner is serious business, in my opinion.

              • There is plenty of examples of the burning anger that God has for the lack of punishment of sin. Murder is the most serious of sins. It is destroying the very image of God. The Bible speaks of God's anger at nations that do not avenge the murder of the innocent. That's not to say that there is no salvation for a person who has committed this sin, but for it to go unpunished, or punished in a non-severe manner is serious business, in my opinion

                I agree that that letting sin go unpunished is very problemati

                • While you may think capital punishment is Biblical, I hope at least you can accept the position that commuting a sentence from death to life in prison without possibility of parole should be considered a Christian act of mercy.

                  Absolutely. However, I generally disagree that government agencies and representatives should be doing that on behalf of the people though. As individuals, we should be showing mercy and forgiveness to others. The government, on the other hand, has a specific job to keep that

      • I tend to believe that God is very angry with how soft this country is on murderers. Most Christians seem to forget that God is not just merciful, but He is also holy. To see the ease with which we treat people who have murdered others must be angering Him.

        When I think about the death penality, I think about the theif of the cross - not the one that was saved, the unrepentant one. Can we really be so sure that those we execute would not have come to faith? I understand that God is holy, but in His eyes,

      • Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.

        You do realize that the idea of authority derived from divinity went out of style about 100 years ago, right?

        Jus' checkin' =)

        • There is a large difference between the concept you are bringing up with what I am saying. A theocratic government, or a divinely appointed King is not the concept I'm talking about. Ultimately, the Christian faith believes that God is sovereign over all of the affairs of man, and the general running of the universe. In the New Testament it states that all governments are, in fact, established by God for the keeping of order. Realize that this was written during a time when the Roman government was not

          • In the New Testament it states that all governments are, in fact, established by God for the keeping of order.

            How is that different? And I'm not even talking about a theocracy, mind you. Anything that smacks of "established|validated|approved by %DEITY%" by definition falls under that bracket. I fail to see the distinction between a monarchy supported by the idea of power derived from god and a church adopting a policy of submission to a temporary power. I'd smell "convenience" if I wasn't so jaded. Oh, w

  • Dr. Johnston misses some big things.

    Bush is creating a terrorist state.
    Bush is the first non-militant Arab leader in the world to push for the creation of an Arab state of "Palestine" in the land God promised to the children of Israel. Bush has officially cut off all communication with Yasser Arafat, but the very notion of an Arab Palestine on Jewish land is the offspring of Arafat's terrorist organization, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). Bush has adopted Arafat's agenda! What a difference

    • Why are we punishing Israel, our most faithful friend? (If you don't believe me, look at the UN voting records. Nobody - not even Britain - stands with us and for us as consistently as Israel.)

      Actually, Israel rarely gets a vote on any binding (i.e. Security Council) resolution, and Israel itself is the only major division between the two in recent history - even there, the US votes are always to veto an anti-Israel resolution, making the UK vote academic. Even then, since 1980 (when my list began) the UK

    • Let's commit to pray for President Bush. Pray that the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of his heart to these issues that we care so much about.

      Yep - that sums up my thoughts.
      I'm disappointed in the areas that he's not my "perfect" candidate - but if he truly allows Jesus Christ to be the Lord of his life, then he'll respond to the Holy Spirit's urging and revelation in those areas.

      And I have to pray the same prayer for Jimmy Carter, a self-professed born-again believer... who seems to need a little more

  • His proposal to increase the budget and the power of the Internal Revenue Service:

    This is an inteeresting grievence. I am happy that the IRS gets a bit more power to prosecute offenders and a wider scope with which to exercise that authority. Especially on the rich and on businesses (dang... I sound like a communist).

    Regarding the UN gripe... yeah the UN is corrupt, greedy, and a bunch of school children fighting for control of the best swing on the set. That must be what happens when you deal with hu

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