Floppy implies a looseness. Every review has talked about how firm and solid it is, like opening and closing the door of a really high end luxury car. Satisfying and quality. Not "flopping around".

Well yeah, that was one aspect, but not what I was referring to. With the ZunePass you basically had most of the Zune music library available to you at a moment's notice (over the air)... so you could browse the social, see people who liked music you liked, and see what ELSE they were listenting, and just listen to it.

It was AMAZING for music-discovery.

My iPod is one of the newer generation classics, so I can play movies on it if I want to -- which means all of those digital copies of movies I buy can be played where I want them (and, yes, I know you can do that with Windows as well). I also have the handy dandy cable that lets me play the movie through to a TV, works with my iPad as well.

I did all the same things on my Zune.

fact, the play counts and ability to create playlists from what are more or less database queries are some of my favorite features -- no idea if Zune has equivalent stuff, but I've got a bunch of playlists that read like "Punk which hasn't been played in less than six months" and make pretty extensive use of those.

Zune could do all that too. And the UI was just so much nicer, more graphical, and just beautiful (especially the "now playing" screen on the PC software).

And as for the radio, there was a cool feature where you could download the track currently playing on the radio from the Zune Music Store in just a click or two. Hear something you like? Boom, it's on your device to listen to any time you want (either buy it, or if you have Zune Pass, you just have it with you at no extra charge).

And yeah, I wonder if that idiot who got the tatoo was part of the reason for the failure in the marketplace :-P

All descriptions of the hinge are the opposite of "floppy".

And you can use this in your lap just fine, just like you do with an iPad. It's not like there's not an on-screen keyboard.

I guess it depends on your notion of "compelling", but the advantages I see: wide-screen (for watching movies/video), the "smart cover" includes a keyboard and touch-pad, and it has a full version of Office Home & Student included in the price, with integrated skydrive, and easy syncing with any other Win8 PC you happen to have.

The app selection is the opposite of compelling at the moment... iPad obviously has not only far more (many orders of magnitude), but far higher quality apps available for it. But even there, the multi-tasking is better in many ways (not all), and the fact you can have two apps visible (one docked, one full-screen) is also slick. The "landscape + operate eveything with 2 thumbs" is an interesting mode of interaction too. Not sure whether it's compelling, but it's certainly more comfortable than "hold up with one hand while poking with the other".

This thing will live or die based on Metro Apps ... their quality, quantity, and availability.

I have to agree.

I have a 2nd Gen Zune device (80Gig), and it's pretty much better than an equivalent iPod Classic in every measurable way... better hardware, better sound, better quality ear-buds, better device UI, better PC Software (not that besting iTunes on Windows takes much effort). It's a rock-solid device, high quality, and a great experience. The Zune "social" website was also fun (with achievements for listening habits, matching friends with similar tastes, etc).

Of course, by the time it came out, the iPod Touch was right around the corner, and the entire category was in its last years before smart phones took over.

As to what makes it better, I agree with the other reply: it's not so much about additional capabilitis (though Zunes did come with built in FM Tuner that iPods lacked, the "social", the sharing, and ZunePass ... all of which were very significant), it was just the experience of using it.

The Zune gets a bad rap because of the clunky first generation design, the brown color, and the somewhat lame marketing campaign (some of the commercials were really good, but after they were over, you had no idea what they were for, so they weren't effective in the way they needed to be obviously). It gets a further bad rap for having failed in the marketpalce, even though it was a superior solution. It was of course, just too late.

By "variety of form factors" I was refering to physical sizes, physical keyboards available, and other differing options, from various manufacturers, on a host of carriers. It's not "just one phone, period".

Which is accurate.

Can't we all just stop bickering, and agree that "WinRT" is a HORRIBLE name?

Especially for a CONSUMER product?

On the flip side... WP7 doesn't NEED a multi-core and is as fast and responsive as many Android devices with faster, and more, cores. It's about functionality not specs.

And some people think the different UIs for various Android manufactures is a problem, not a solution... you can't just hand your "Android" device to someone else who has an "Android" device, and know your way around. It's all different. I've seen someone who has an Android phone get totally lost when handed a friend's Android phone, and just hand the phone back. That doesn't happen with iPhones or WP7 phones. Obivously, it's give and take here, but there are people who value these things differently than you (or me).

WP7 seems to be staking out a "middle-ground" between the one-size-fits-all locked-in world of iPhone, and the everyone-for-themselves wild-wild-west of Android. Currently they're tacking closer to iPhone than Android, but theyr'e still somewhere in the middle, offering a variety of form factors, without nearly the fragmentation, and locking down the security quite a bit (Android is the only platform I'm aware of with significant malware issues).

And judging Microsoft on the basis of Win95/98 is ridiculous. I understand the psychology there, I just think it's silly and I have little patience for it. I worked on Macs all through that time, and had so many damn system-bombs that I have to laugh at any idiot Mac Fanboy that makes fun of blue screens. ALL computers were crap back then, even Macs (anyone else remember the paperclip required to hard-reset a Fat Mac, or to pop out the disc when the thing inevitably locked up solid?)

Microsoft products lately have actually been decent. They deserve objective consideration. And the advantage of WP being "in the mix" in the competitive environment is many-fold... first, it's not just an obvious copy of the iPhone like Android is. Second, already WP has driven new features into iOS (as has Android of course)... many iOS 5 and 6 features were obvious "me too" catch-ups with WP7/7.5. This is a GOOD THING for EVERYONE.

So I'm not sure why there are people rooting for Windows Phone to fail... other than just being petty, fan-boy dicks about it.

In fact no WP7.x phone will get WP8 MS has said.

I keep seeing this repeated... when in fact, nothing of the sort has been said (let alone confirmed).

But even if I wanted a WP7 phone, I would not buy it for the same reason I don't buy an iPhone: does not play well with linux, and I'm not about to switch my PCs over to Mac/windows because of a stupid phone.

THAT, at least, is a legitimate, rational reason.

Careful... saying anything positive (no matter how factual) will get you moderated a troll in this place, as I've found out the hard way.

Or it'll get a serious post modded "Funny". Ha ha.

Seriously, moderation in this forum (on this topic anyway) is WAY out of line.

But thanks for actually posting some facts to the irrational bashers and haters.

Moderators are being biased, ignorant idiots... nothing about parent is a troll. It's my personal opinion. Seriously, ... this is ridiculous.

Moderators are idiots... nothing about parent is a troll. Seriously, ... that's ridiculous.

Not an employee. I use the products in my daily work (development on .Net and Microsoft platforms). I have no desire to work for Microsoft, though I do know a couple of (highly tech) people who work there (former co-workers from previous work-lives). I own no stock. And I know no such things about astro-turfing, and am certainly not one.

Man, the conclusions people are so eager to jump to, and unfounded assumptions people are so willing to make...