You say you don't want it and yet you say you are forced. Either you want it or not. No need for the hyperbole.

I have no clue what you're saying here. I object to DRM. I don't want to support it in any shape or form, therefore I oppose any widespread support for it in hardware or software, because then I'd inevitably have to pay for something that supports it, making me indirectly pay for development of something I don't want to touch with a 10 foot pole.

Well buy the DVD then and rip it. There are perfectly good reasons to go with this.

Perfect example, btw. DVDs are a failed form of DRM that's been so cracked it's as good as if they didn't have any. Yet go figure, movies still sell on DVD. DRM is unnecessary.

Just don't expect to be using any download services ever because it totally unreasonable to think they would stream an entire library of content to your device in a format which can be ripped off by all and sundry. Even if you claim you are the most honest person in the world, you can bet for every one of you there are 100 other people delighted to just rip content.

I don't object to download services existing. I object to them being made an integral part of web standards.

Also, I think youtube, vimeo and magnatune must be a figment of my imagination.

And if we all grew wings we could fly. We can all conjure up scenarios which are never going to come to pass. The fact is that DRM is here to stay.

Wrong, the situation with music proves it's absolutely not necessary. The industry will whine about it, then still go and sell you the content because to do otherwise is suicide.

If you oppose DRM as it is implemented, a far better tact than lobbying for its abolishment is to lobby to put the rights back into DRM. If DRM actually proved my ownership of some digital content then I could argue for doctrine of first sale and all the rest of that stuff to apply to my digital content. I could sell my content, loan it, donate it with impunity. DRM can be a force for good but it requires legislation and some form of management platform that protects my ownership.

No, DRM is a travesty that must be completely done away with. There's no such thing as reasonable DRM. To "put the rights back" into it is to simply give me a plain MPEG (or whatever format you prefer) file.

Well, take the inability to downgrade the firmware on some cell phones and consoles, for instance. What is the purpose of that?

Normally, nobody would give a crap what I run on my hardware. However, DRM hinges on not letting the user do certain things. That means that when the DRM system has a fault in it that does allow getting around the limits, it must be plugged. Otherwise it would be just the matter of taking an old device, downloading a movie or whatever on it, and exploiting the flaw to get a copy.

So you get things like forced upgrades (no upgrade, no service!) and the impossibility of downgrading, even if the upgrade turns out to be buggy as heck. You can only hope that the manufacturer deems the issue important enough to fix in a future update.

So, somebody else is dictating what I run on my hardware. That is loss of control.

It is very different. In banking through TLS, the end user gets completely unencrypted data. You can copy/paste, save or print the page from the bank website if you like. And the security of the whole thing doesn't depend on the computer limiting you in any way.

In contrast, with DRM, the end objective is keeping the decrypted data from ever being available to the user, which involves making the hardware and software work in such a way that the user is unable to get to it.

The notion that unavailability of DRM will cause providers to suddenly come to their senses and offer their products DRM-free is absurd. Rather, they will continue to offer it through systems that support it. DRM will disappear as companies realize that it is costing far more in profits that it gains them, not because somebody imposes it upon them.

No, that was precisely it. IIRC, the catalyst of it was iTunes removing DRM. So as a distributor you could either sell through iTunes, which didn't give you DRM but had a huge userbase, or you could sell it DRMed to a tiny market. Guess which was the better option economically.

It's simple: if the DRM market shrinks enough it won't matter how much they want it, it'll simply be a road to bankruptcy to try to insist on it.

But they cannot require you to purchase DRM content. You still have a choice whether to buy it or not. But it sounds like you want to deny that choice to others.

Sure, if you want to see it that way, yes, I want to deny that choice to others.

This is ridiculous sophistry. Being somebody who theoretically can play that kind of content does not put a cent in any provider's pocket. Their profits come from actual customers, not theoretical ones.

It does have a very important effect. How a product gets offered is affected by how it can be delivered. For instance, games are made taking into the account the number of people with each console. Well, if I object to a method of distribution, I get a better effect by not being available on it in the first place. If I'm in the set of people who can play non-DRMed video, but not in the set of people who can play DRMed video, then if you want me as a customer you HAVE to release it without DRM.

Why would anybody want to have access to "DRM protected content"? It gains you nothing over plain content. When DRM for music went away, were you suddenly unable to buy music? No, they still sell it to you, just without DRM. And you probably get it cheaper too, because without DRM they have no hold on you.

But trying to prevent others from having access to DRM-protected content is making the decision for others.

And by making DRM a standard, they're making a decision for me too. See how it works?

I don't want to provide support for DRM in any shape or form. But it's not as easy as just not subscribing to Netflix, because this kind of standard will ensure that I will ultimately have to pay for it, in one way or another. By simply using a browser that supports it, because there's a standard for it, I will be counted as somebody who can play that kind of content, no matter how much I don't want to. And if I use a commercial OS, part of the money I pay will be spent on developing the functionality that Netflix wants, even if I want nothing to do with Netflix.

If Netflix really wants some special video playing tech, they can manufacture their own tablet, and write their own software. So that their subscribers cover 100% of the cost, and I 0%.

Movies are not a necessity of life, so there's always a way to not buy into it. Don't like the terms? Read a book, instead.

And I don't. Yet one more reason to object to having my hardware and software be forced to support something I don't want to.

I think that DRM on video will ultimately die out, much as it has on music, as providers realize that users are willing to pay for convenience. I don't want to own any movies, I just want to be able to watch what I want, when I want, and I am willing to pay for the convenience of not owning and organizing my own video files. Eventually, producers will realize that they are just wasting money with this sysiphean pursuit of absolute control.

Here we disagree: I do want to own my movies. I want to be the one who decides, absolutely, what I watch, when I watch, where I watch, and on what terms I watch.

But obstructing the technology is not a way of hastening that transition.

Why not? If everybody right now decided that they will not accept DRM, it'd die tomorrow. The more opposition there is, and the less convenient it is, the faster it will die. It won't go away because the industry decides to be nice one day, it will because it's the most profitable option. People complained a lot about DRM on music, and look, it went away.

I must have read a different article. All I see is a desire for a standardized mechanism to allow DRM protected video to play using plugins within HTML5

DRM == giving control of my computer to somebody else.

The only thing remotely close to what you are concerned about is perhaps they are trying to take away your ability to view copyrighted material without subscribing to a service providing the video stream. In that case, I'm not sympathetic to your cause.

No, it won't actually do that, because I still could obtain the content without subscribing to the service, I'd just have to find it on a P2P network.

I object to people using my hardware to control their content. And really I object to people trying to control their content too.

IMO the copyright lobby has already got way too much. It's time to cut those things down considerably.

Sure it will: the browser at the very least. And to make it effective instead of just pointless it'll eventually require hardware restrictions.

So I don't really see how it is any of your business what hardware I buy or what software I install in order to run Netflix.

It's my business because even if I don't watch Netflix, a standard will ensure that my browser will have to implement it anyway. And I don't want to contribute a cent to that.

Er, no it isn't. You are not forced to use the service, but if you do you abide by the terms and conditions of usage

I object to the enforcement technology itself existing. Whether the service is something I want to use or not is another matter entirely.

The encryption is there to stop people from ripping off the content in ways the service does not permit, possibly for contractual reasons with the content providers.

I don't really care

Laws and influence. If they get their way eventually hardware without such things simply won't exist. There won't be a way not to buy into it, because every single computer will come with it included.

Dear Wowsers. The internet IS NOT YOURS EITHER. Don't like a protocol, file format, or DRM scheme? DONT USE IT.

And I won't. But I'll also use all other avenues available: I'll make sure to be as much of a pain in the ass as possible to those who work against my interests. They try to use legislation, and standards and I'll make sure to extert the opposite pressure.

so what fucking business is it of yours as to how Netflix delivers content? Its not your business at all, BECAUSE THE INTERNET IS NOT YOURS.

It's an attempt to screw with my hardware and software, which is very much my business.

Bullshit. The music industry didn't want that either, yet go figure, now MP3 is sold with no DRM.

The industry, in the end, cares about money. Make DRM unprofitable, and it'll go away, one way or another. Making it disappear is just a matter of putting up a decent opposition.

Not any more ironic than the position that governments shouldn't limit speech

It's an attempt to intrude on and limit what I can do with my hardware, which is unacceptable. It's as if they barged into my home and demanded to to have a guard standing there to make sure I don't get the idea of duplicating a DVD.