Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×

Comment Re:In Engineering - Unix is nearly done (Score 1) 570

As others have pointed out, OS X is UNIX.

And it's one of the two UN*X platforms that most of the CAD software listed in the Wikipedia "Comparison of CAD software" page runs on if it runs on any UN*X at all; the other is, not entirely surprisingly, Linux. Most of them, according to that page, at least, only run on Windows, however.

Comment Re:I'd mod the OP Flamebait (Score 1) 570

Not really, the article is quite specifically talking about Unix. Linux and iOS and OSX are not Unix.

Mac OS X is UNIX. iOS and Linux are not.

The micro-kernel is not unix and the userland came from Unix.

As did the BSD part of the kernel (the kernel is more than "the micro-kernel"; "the micro-kernel" is the stuff in the osfmk directory of the XNU source, the BSD part is the stuff in the bsd directory, and there's also I/O Kit in the iokit directory).

It is unix-like, it is not unix.

The BSD part of the kernel, and much of the Darwin userland, is as much "unix", in the sense of being derived from AT&T code, as are the *BSDs. (It's also "unix" in the sense of passing the Single UNIX Specification test suite, but you presumably already knew that and weren't using "unix" in that sense.)

Comment Re:Moronic analysts (Score 1) 570

CISC has been RISC with a translation layer from the very beginning.

Or kinda sorta VLIW, if you mean "CISC has been implemented in microcode atop not-so-CISCy microengines from the very beginning", although it's also been implemented purely in hardware (in, for example, the IBM System/360 Model 75, the GE 600 series, and the Honeywell 6000 series, although that was in an era before the term "CISC" had been coined).

Comment Re:Moronic analysts (Score 1) 570

But all that matters is that once you try to port the system to another architecture, you end up with an inappropriate api model and a legacy of language and system design choices that were done in a different decade, for very different needs, and for completely different capabilities.

Or, if you're just talking about instruction set architectures, you end up with an operating system whose API model works Just Fine for both instruction set architectures (and ISAs other than the one ported from or the one ported to) and a legacy of language and system design choices that work Well Enough for both.

So presumably you're referring to system architectures, not instruction set architectures such as SPARC, MIPS, POWER/PowerPC/Power ISA, Alpha, and x86, as they really don't differ, at least in the way Windows or UN*X use them, in ways that make much of a difference.

Comment Re:Overlooking the obvious (Score 1) 570

OS X meets v4 for command line tools, but only v2 for the C API.

Same for Solaris 11, same for AIX 6, same for HP-UX 11i V3. Does this indicate that those OSes have not adopted any of the subsequent API changes, or does it indicate that the Open Group haven't updated their conformance suites so that you can't test anything better than v4 for the command-line tools and v2 for the C API?

(And do "V4" and "V2" refer to Issues 4 and 2, respectively, of the SUS, or do they refer to something else?)

The *BSDs and Linux are light years ahead of OS X's C API.

What are some of the significant things present in the C APIs of Linux and the *BSDs that are not present in the C API of OS X, and which, if any, of them were introduced in issues of the SUS later than 2?

Apple in general appears to be giving up on Unix. They've deprecated much of the Unix API in iOS, including simple things like fork(), and have stated that they want to move all application developers, including desktop app developers, to the iOS API.

Where have they stated that (in a way indicating that "all" includes not only the folks writing Mac Applications(TM) but also the people doing UN*X apps that work on OS X)?

Comment Re:I thought OS X was Unix (Score 1) 570

To reuse an analogy from above, that's like claiming that all the quacking waterfowl that seem to like being fed bread in the park are not "certified Ducks(R)" because because the man from The Duck(R) Group(TM) has not been paid to come along and certifiy the ducks.

Well, in fact, legally speaking, they're not Duck(R) waterfowl. The point is that, given that they walk enough like a Duck(R) waterfowl, and quack enough like a Duck(R) waterfowl, people are willing to treat them the same way they treat Duck(R) waterfowl even though they cannot legally be called Duck(R) waterfowl. (I.e., people are willing to use Linux distributions as a substitute for Unix(R) systems because, legally speaking, even though they're not Unix(R) systems, they're enough like it that the differences aren't worth spending the extra money for a Unix(R) system.)

The other reason to not care is that the duck certificiation man is not, in fact, an ornithologist and would happily certify a goose as a Duck(R)(TM).

Well, yeah, I suspect most sites with Unix applications - oops, sorry, that's "applications for Unix(R) systems" :-) - are probably not going to port them to z/OS (the certification for which is for a standard that's almost 20 years old, BTW; are there any geese that have been certified as a recent version of a Duck(R)? The only recent Ducks(R) I see are all stuff that could reasonably be considered Real Unix), given that if their apps assume they're using ASCII, they're in for a rude surprise....

Comment Re:Uh huh (Score 1) 570

Really? That's all you got?

Where in your list is Tru64?

In the "dead" list, given that DEC^WCompaq^HP aren't coming out with new releases and given that it runs on an instruction set architecture of which no more implementations are being made and it isn't being ported to new architectures.

Irix?

In the "dead" list, given that SGI aren't coming out with new releases and given that the only instruction set it supports these days, MIPS is now targeted for various flavors of embedded computing rather than general-purpose computing, and it's not being ported to other instruction sets.

UNICOS?

These days, it's called "Linux".

SCO?

Wow, they're still around, not that they're players in the same "enterprise server" market as Oracle/HP/IBM and their respective proprietary Unixes.

Limiting yourself to Unixes you've encountered is a pretty lame standard.

Limiting yourself to Unixes that are still around, if the topic is the decline of "Unix", is, however, a rather reasonable standard.

Comment Re:Z series eats the midgets (HP Sun etc) (Score 1) 570

To boot IBM now lets one run Linux on mainframe class hardware (the Z system). Actually the interesting trick is IBM in the mainframe line has run microcoded machines since at least the 370 line.

Since the 360 line - all but the Model 75 and Models 91, 95, and 195 were microcoded.

As a result to get a new architecture, you just write new microcode.

You could add new instructions with new microcode, but you aren't going to get Shiny Newer Faster Machines (at least not past a certain point) with new microcode on top of the Same Old Boring Hardware, and, with Shiny Newer Faster Hardware, you're going to need Shiny Newer Microcode to run atop that hardware to implement the instruction set. (And, with recent generations of hardware, most of the instructions are, I think, implemented in hardware, with some instructions implemented by trapping to PALcode^Wmillicode.)

Comment Re:Uh huh (Score 1) 570

No, Linux not a UNIX It doesn't pass the POSIX standards to get the UNIX trademark, and it never will (due to some significant architectural difference in the kernel and the resulting libc.)

Which specific parts of the Single UNIX Standard cannot possibly be implemented by Linux+glibc due to those architectural differences? Be specific, please.

Comment Re:Uh huh (Score 1) 570

Solaris originally added some System V enhancements to SunOS, but did not change it from BSD.

You're thinking of SunOS 3.2-3.5 and 4.x; the first SVisms were added in 3.2, and a bunch more were added in 4.0 (and RFS was added in, I think, 4.1). The "Solaris" name wasn't used until SunOS 4.1.1 (Solaris 1 = SunOS 4.1.1 + the corresponding versions of OpenWindows and maybe the desktop applications) and SunOS 5.0 (Solaris 2 = SunOS 5.0 + the corresponding versions of OpenWIndows and desktop applications).

As Solaris progressed more and more System V was implemented and added

SunOS 5.0 was Sun's version of System V Release 4. SVR4 was the result of AT&T and Sun combining the SV code base with the Sun code base, with a bunch of things (such as the VM subsystem) picked up from SunOS 4 with some changes (one of the most important VM subsystem changes was the renaming of the routine to look for an unmapped region in the address space from as_hole() to as_gap(); yes, I'm serious, do a Web search for them).

but it was never truly System V compliant.

I.e., it didn't conform to the System V Interface Definition? (That's the only form of "System V compliance" there is.) If so, could you provide a citation for that claim?

Comment Re:Uh huh (Score 1) 570

Unix has three definitions.

1. Legacy Unix, based on the AT&T Unix source code. eg: Solaris and AIX.

2. Certified Unix(tm). eg: Solaris, AIX, and OS X (apparently not included in their decline of Unix numbers).

3. Unix-like operating systems. eg: Linux, *BSD. (*BSD is also somewhat legacy in that AT&T incorporated their source code).

I don't think you can classify BSD as "Unix-like". My understanding that it is considered full-on Unix. And the basis for Solaris, no less.

4) Linux based phones (android)

And 4) differs from 3) how? As far as I know, the low-level parts of Android are the Linux kernel and the Bionic libc, which give you a Unix-like API; Dalvik sits atop those (and possibly other things).

Comment Re: Uh huh (Score 1) 570

That, and the fact that it runs on the MACH microkernel, which is completely non UNIX, but supports a Posix API layer.

The "POSIX API layer" is 4.4-Lite-derived kernel code plopped atop Mach's platform support, task/thread, and VM code; it's not part of the Mach layer. The Mach code knows nothing about networking or file systems; that's all BSD code (or Apple code). (There's also I/O Kit, which is neither BSD nor Mach, and is what's used for drivers that actually talk to devices, rather than "pseudo-drivers" such as the pseudo-tty driver and the BPF driver. The osfmk directory of the XNU source is the Mach code, the bsd directory is the 4.4-Lite-derived code, and the iokit directory is the I/O Kit code.)

Comment Re:Uh huh (Score 1) 570

But neither Oracle nor Sun used the name UNIX, either then

Well, actually, Sun's OS originally announced itself in the boot message as "Sun UNIX 4.2BSD Version {version number}", or something such as that, until AT&T got cranky; "SunOS" first appeared in the boot message in, as I remember, 4.0 (at which point it was also more "4.3BSD" than "4.2BSD").

nor now.

Define "used"/"uses". They don't use it in the OS's brand name, but they sure use it on, for example, the Solaris 11 overview page ("Brings the reliability, security and scalability of the #1 UNIX OS to the enterprise cloud"). Apple doesn't use "UNIX" in the name of their OS, either, but they used it in various advertising materials, e.g. "sends all other Unix boxes to /dev/null", and The Open Group told them they had to certify (Mac) OS X in order to use the trademark.

Back in the day when that trademark cost money

It still costs money:

Annual fees apply, which are referenced by the Trademark License Agreement:

  • License fee for the TMLA to remain in place
  • Product registration fees
  • Program fees (royalties)

Separate fees apply for the test suites.

every vendor called it something other than UNIX - SunOS, Solaris, Iris, AIX, HP/UX, SCO OSE, Dynix, CLIX, et al. The only company I can recall calling it UNIX was Novell's UnixWare, but then Novell got USL from AT&T.

There was also Digital UNIX, which was the new name for DEC OSF/1 after it passed the test suite for SUS conformance. (It was later renamed Tru64 UNIX when there was no longer a "Digital Equipment Corporation".)

So it would cost Oracle nothing.

...as long as they stop calling Solaris "the #1 UNIX OS" (or anything else with "UNIX" in it).

Slashdot Top Deals

The last person that quit or was fired will be held responsible for everything that goes wrong -- until the next person quits or is fired.

Working...