Apologies for the out of nowhere Cruz joke. Tuesday's possible train wreck has my inner political sportscaster drunk and mouthing off to random people in the bleachers on the way to his seat. Please disregard.

+1 thanks.

Being a fervent Homebrewer, I did: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2010/02/the_chemists_war.html

"Frustrated that people continued to consume so much alcohol even after it was banned, federal officials had decided to try a different kind of enforcement. They ordered the poisoning of industrial alcohols manufactured in the United States, products regularly stolen by bootleggers and resold as drinkable spirits. The idea was to scare people into giving up illicit drinking. Instead, by the time Prohibition ended in 1933, the federal poisoning program, by some estimates, had killed at least 10,000 people."

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=2&psid=3383

"Prohibition did briefly pay some public health dividends. The death rate from alcoholism was cut by 80 percent by 1921 from pre-war levels, while alcohol-related crime dropped markedly. Nevertheless, seven years after Prohibition went into effect, the total deaths from adulterated liquor reached approximately 50,000, and there were many more cases of blindness and paralysis. According to one story, a potential buyer who sent a liquor sample to a laboratory for analysis was shocked when a chemist replied: "Your horse has diabetes." "

"Even today, debate about the impact of Prohibition rages. Critics argue that the amendment failed to eliminate drinking, made drinking more popular among the young, spawned organized crime and disrespect for the law, encouraged solitary drinking, and led beer drinkers to hard liquor and cocktails. One wit joked that "Prohibition succeeded in replacing good beer with bad gin." The lesson these critics derive: it is counterproductive to try to legislate morality. "

So in regards to Krokodil:
      freely available precursors that have legitimate uses
+ clampdown on information to iterate the impurities/efficiencies out of methods and tools
+ belief that addiction is lack of morality and willpower
= actual, not a joke, they were fiction and now they are here "ZOMBIES" (minus the "crossed over the actual deadline" of the fictional version.)

Morality or Zombies, Morality or Zombies..... Hmmmmm. What's that Senator Cruz? You said you enjoyed that show on AMC? Well shut things down and get up there and talk it out, son!!!

Yeah. So I see this is still an information and tools problem. Your method for an all grain brew is off by quite a few hours and most likely you just made bottle bombs. That 2 week wait might save you from the bottle bombs, but I still ain't going near those damn things until I chuck a few quarters at them from across the room with safety glasses on. I'll gladly watch you open one up though to see it self empty!

Now I understand how Krokodil is made and why. Not enough people who are passionate/artistic about their desomorphine and its quality like homebrewers are with their brews.

And those effects don't even last as long as those from Krokodil!

Legislating ideals of morality against real life humans doesn't seem to be working either.

Evidence = real life walking dead (while their moving bits still move that is)

Sugar beet wine tastes like vermouth, if anyone is wondering. Haven't made a potato wine yet.

Curious now, thanks!

Take away the assumption of Marinal vs Home Grown and you'd be right.

Back to alcohol though, I would just advise to find better Homebrewers. We are pretty common now. Three words will help out your shitty homebrew analogy friend, should he exist:

Homebrewtalk forums and Star-San.

If these people are falling apart because of shitty methods, then if they just have to fucking have the desomorphine, then better the tools and methods. I don't condone a MAKErs movement for desomorphine, but I don't see zombies as the better option.

Your analogy to bathtub gin is spot on, then. Only the people who don't know someone skilled in the art and tools of making desomorphine the correct way will become zombies.

So that is the answer then, as much as I would never do it. Someone create a Russian/Serbian forum that has the correct methods/recipes that people iterate on, with a store link to the correct tools and ingredients. The deso fools with shitty methods will die off in three years, (given the occasional bathtub deso maker who kills himself, friends and customers), and those people who read the forums and buy from the store will end up managing like a GP with an Oxy habit.

I'll state it again, that's very far from an ideal world, but in this one we have zombies. Mix in bath salts like someone will soon, and you get the rage virus brought to life.

And then everybody will have to live life a little faster on the run.

And most of us end up giving it away, sharing, or taking a loss. Profit? Nope.

Now joy on the other hand...

And your tiny little libertarian would be right. Hardcore addicts of heroin try to use it as a stopgap from what I've reading. I'd link a bunch of citations, but they are easily googled and found. I'm full up on the horror of it for one day to even google any more Krokodil links.

Apologies if I sounded counter to your point. But that is a weird debate to have in the short term:

Prescriptions for codeine seem more feasible in the very near term than allowing heroin in that same span of time. On the other hand, OxyContin is prescription and millions of people are addicted to that. Rich people's drugs versus poor people's drugs. Get's sticky pretty quickly.

And sticky is what these people are becoming now. So as someone with a bit of libertarianism mixed in with my shotgun democrat leanings, I always come back to better education. At least the Oxyfools don't become a ramp down the living dead inside of three years. So prescriptions for codeine and ramp up methadone production and availability may work in the near term for Eurasia.

Having the living dead roaming there is just going to make all the khat chewers around the world wonder what the hell is happening to the world.

So yeah, again, your tiny libertarian is right while my tiny relativist went to go pour some homebrew while he ponders the fucked uppedness of the walking dead with bits falling off. Tough one. Russia better take some kind of action though, since taking none is making the problem worse in the short term.

Because it becomes a passion after you've made good batches of wine from things other than grapes, beer from the base grains you've crushed yourself to get the hulls to slip off without too much tear, spirits out of left field with essences of lavender you've grown yourself.

Say what you will about just buying it, but some of us have gotten a mind virus that wants to start slapping bud lights out of people's hands.

Ciders are what kept the founding fathers alive, not to mention the rest of chimpdom for the majority of written history. Prohibiton's last laugh was that its effects were felt long after its repeal.

Pruno is what you make on the heat register. Glory is what you make in the carboy.

After you've done that a few times, there just is no going back.

This one is full of so much horror that it would be amazing if it didn't make political lines irrelevant. So of course I am preparing myself to be amazed.

Estimated 1,000,000 of the living dead, I mean users, in Russia.

Cheap codeine manufacturers making record profits. (Sigh. They just knocked on the door and gave me back my cynic's badge.)

Before anyone goes on about who's seen worse shit as a member of the military, it is always going to be the case where someone has seen something more fucked up. Always going to be the case and always was, so it's a pointless debate to get into.

My point there is that seeing the effects on that woman who's poisoned 65% of the meat from her bones, crying naked and living dead on the table? I would choose to unsee that. I would go to the clinic in "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" and pay to unsee that.

Not something I say lightly. Don't even mind much for any opinions on that decision. I want to unsee the guy's dead white flesh plopping into a bucket after a nurse cuts open the plastic wrap the addict's used to have some semblance he still had a leg. (Spoiler Alert: He didn't)

Poor, crazy Amy Winehouse being the perfect example of what you mean there. Her death is what clued me into the fact that alcohol withdrawal can be life threatening. Say what you will about her antics, but I would still take her music over what has come out of the pop scene this year. No question.

But newly hearing about Krokodil today has my cynic badge revoked. I haven't been shocked by something in the news for a very long time. Appalled, yeah, of course. Truly shocked? Krokodil accomplished that today.

Using Meth or Crack as a shorthand for drug addled will soon be overtaken by the word "Krok".

I'm a military guy, but after seeing the pictures of this and that Vice documentary listed below, just...

Oh my God

Think I found the root of what was bugging me about the Ars binary mod. It bypasses the discussions for agreement or disagreement entirely with the shortcut of an up or down. The person posting never gets to even hear the reasoning and the conversation stops before it even started. So as people are stating above, it amounts to a popularity vote on a piece of opinion graffiti. My mistake was in viewing it as more of a forum with the article as the subject. For the most part the discussion is short circuited entirely before it even has a chance to blossom except for randoms and weirdos.

No wonder it isn't working.