Oh, he's the one trying to cause a shutdown? You're insane. In case you've forgotten, it's the Tea Party people that have already said they want a default to happen. You must have one hell of a reality distortion field around you there. The rest of the Republicans just want to kick the can a few months down the road so they can try to beat on Obama a bit more before the election. Tell me again who's playing games here? The Tea Party is willing to screw us all with a default that will end up being a tax on everyone.

Wrong. We wouldn't have had to run up most of the debt we have in the last couple of years if it hadn't been for the economic crash which happened on Bush's watch, and it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is if Bush hadn't run up so much debt already by not paying for the wars, the tax cuts, the drug bill, etc. Republicans had control of Congress for like 10 of the 12 years before the Dems took it over again in 2008. What did they do all that time? Spend like crazy on the national credit card, not paying for much of anything. STFU until you can at least be consistent in your bitching.

As for the whole "ride in the back" thing, you'd probably do that too if the people you had to deal with had a habit of comparing you to Hitler and Marx. Hell, Obama has alienated a lot of his base by being so right-leaning. He's continued a lot of Bush policies. It's retarded to call him anything but a centrist. The Republicans are so ridiculously far-right now though, they'd call Reagan a fucking commie if he were in politics today.

If the Democrats put together a plan, it would have to be one that neither of us would consider legitimate, just as the Republican's plan isn't legitimate. There's just no way that it would pass. If they put together something legitimate, then the Tea Party, AT BEST, would consider it a starting point for introducing lots more cuts, and getting rid of whatever revenue increases are included. That would be incredibly stupid for them to do. It's more likely anyway that the TP would just refuse it flat-out as they've refused any compromise at all so far. So we're stuck.

I don't support either party for ideological reasons. They both do some things I agree with and some that I don't. They both act incredibly stupid sometimes, or at least it seems that way to me. I'm sure they see some benefit in it. In this case though, I think it's the Republicans that are being stupid. Actually that's not quite right, as a lot of them are apparently willing to be reasonable. It's the TP faction that's trying to screw over the whole country right now.

I think maybe the all-caps was a bit excessive...

Maybe you could point me to a quote from one or two of them that says what you say it says. I can't seem to find any. You seem to know of lots though.

Who cares what they offered to cut? The fact that it included revenue increases was enough for Cantor to call it off. What they offer to cut doesn't matter if the Tea Party refuses to even consider anything they come up with.

Why would they do that? Just so Cantor can lie about it? Like how he claimed that they had already agreed to certain cuts during negotiations, even though those cuts were only agreed to as part of an overall plan? He thinks it's some kind of a-la-cart thing apparently.

Unbelievable. Trying to pull a fast one? Negotiations are usually done behind closed doors. Both sides insist on this because it's the only way they can speak as openly and frankly as they need to in order to get a deal done, without the rest of their party shouting things down every five minutes.

No, the Democrats refused to accept the one ridiculously unbalanced proposal that the Republicans put out even though they knew it was a complete non-starter. They've made all kinds of offers of combinations of cuts with some revenue increases included. Every single one has been rejected by the Tea Party. They haven't even cared to see specifics. They are refusing to even consider a deal that includes any revenue increases at all. They are the problem.

That's great that she has that kind of support and the physical and financial ability to go to school. Not everyone gets that though. Many people with illnesses like that get little help and are lucky if they even have a roof over their heads. The costs and constant care needed can often break a family that has little to begin with.

Case by case is certainly the best way to evaluate things. That requires a lot of case-workers though too, which can also be expensive, even though most of those folks don't make much. It's a difficult job. I know a social worker, and I sure as hell wouldn't want her job. I'd probably be clinically depressed within weeks if I had to face what she does every day.

That's pretty disingenuous. They aren't making it more expensive, they're taking away a tax break that was given for one item, but not others. Why should that one item get a break? If it can't make it in the market on a level playing field with the same taxes as everything else, maybe they need to rethink their business plan. Asking for a government handout is not a business plan.

Which statement was that? Every time he mentioned it, it was in relation to elimination of a tax break that there's no good reason to have. I saw nothing about owning planes being selfish or foolish. Could you be specific about what he said that implies that?

Again, they shouldn't need a tax break. The plane is worth it or it isn't. Money not spent on planes will be spent on something else that also creates jobs. At least it would be if Congress would quit screwing around and start doing things to create jobs again. Taxes are already the lowest they've been in several decades. More tax breaks aren't going to create jobs. Taxes have been higher during past economic booms, so that's not the issue here.

Why put a plan down on paper when the other side won't even give it consideration? Do you think they enjoy wasting their time? The Tea Party complaint isn't there there is no specific plan, it's that they refuse to accept anything but exactly what they want. So I really don't see why you care whether there's a plan on paper or not. Aside from a ridiculous non-starter, the Republicans haven't put anything specific on paper either. That's what negotiations are for, and those are being done behind closed doors right now, for good reason.

I don't think you'll get much argument from people if you ask for specific changes to things that are being taken advantage of. But you'll need to be very specific. Your original blanket statement about doing away with welfare is definitely not going to work. I see people every day when I'm going to work who wouldn't survive without it. Many of them have serious mental issues that prevent them from being able to hold down a job. They can't get any real health care either, so they are often sick and suffer from chronic conditions. The idea that these people just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get real jobs is just ridiculous.

That's complete nonsense. If Congress abdicates on its responsibility to pay the country's bills, then yes, decisions will have to be made about where we will default, but that isn't on Obama. It's Congress' responsibility to pay the bills.

Saying that the Republican plan is the only plan is bullshit though. Proposing something that you know the other side can't possibly agree to is not a good-faith negotiation. There are two ways to close the deficit gap, cutting spending and raising revenues. The Tea Party Republicans want to take one of those completely off the table and have refused any compromise at all. This is on them.

There have been plenty of other plans being put together, even bi-partisan plans, but the Tea Party faction refuses to budge at all on any sort of tax revenue increase, so those plans are dead before they can even be formed. As long as they insist that only cuts and no revenues can be part of the bill, they are the ones holding the country hostage. Wonder how people will like the tax we all get to pay when it starts costing us more to borrow anything at all because our credit gets downgraded.

We've seen poll after poll now that shows that something like 70% of the country, including a large percentage of Republicans, think that both taxes and cuts should be part of any compromise plan, but the House Republicans won't allow it. This shit is on them, and I think people will see it that way come the next election too. You can't just sit there with your little faction and insist that everything be done your way. That's not how democracy works, and people will recognize which side isn't willing to compromise and get a plan put together that can pass both houses. If the shit hits the fan, we know which group is responsible.

He didn't say they shouldn't be buying them, he said they shouldn't be getting a tax break on them.

I don't get a tax break on my TV or dishwasher. Why should some company get one on a jet?

Demonized? Really? Because he said they shouldn't get a tax break on a jet?

Reign should be rein. Should have previewed.

Who said that?

Someone's not gonna get paid. Who do you think it will be?

You assume that steps won't be taken to reign in the deficit. I'm not seeing any argument against that from anyone, only an argument about how it should be done.