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Comment: Re:Here's MY test (Score 1) 515

by Nermal (#49342059) Attached to: A Bechdel Test For Programmers?

Do you expect me to be surprised that there exist women who have enjoyed easy integration into tech? I mean, of course there are! How sad would it be if that weren't so? That doesn't mean others don't have a harder time, that they aren't driven out by the kind of workplace engendered (so to speak) by people like the ACs upthread who are coming right out and saying that they think most women are naturally inferior when it comes to STEM, that they just whine, don't have real concerns, and how they fail to appreciate all the "attention" given to them by their helpful colleagues.

I actually agree with many of the author of this post's points, to an extent, but she's basically going from "my experience wasn't like yours" to "therefore yours isn't real", and that's not how that works. As people in this thread have so helpfully demonstrated, there are some really toxic attitudes out there, the kind that start with "I only want to judge people on how well they can code", but don't take long to get to "everybody knows girls just aren't as good at coding as guys are", and while it's great that a woman can have a career without encountering that, many do, which reinforces the "you aren't wanted here" message that things like girl-centric tech courses and, to bring this back to the original point, organizations sending a different message by doing things that acknowledging the importance of integration, are trying to circumvent.

Comment: Re:Here's MY test (Score 1) 515

by Nermal (#49341941) Attached to: A Bechdel Test For Programmers?

If you think I came within a mile of "conceding" something as idiotic as the notion that men are "biologically" better at STEM than women, either I seriously mis-spoke or you seriously mis-read.

And then you top it off by suggesting that if someone concedes your stupid generalizations about race, they have to also concede your stupid generalizations about sex?

Umm, no.

Also, wtf?

But anyway, now that you've come out and admitted that you think women are inferior to you when it comes to IT, thank you for playing the "demonstrate the problem we've been talking about" game.

Comment: Re:Here's MY test (Score 1) 515

by Nermal (#49329345) Attached to: A Bechdel Test For Programmers?

If some would-be Larry Bird was talking about how he wanted to break into basketball but was driven away by harassment, or just by a day-to-day hostile environment created by the racial equivalent of guys who think sexism is a net win for women because it's easier for them to strip for a living (seriously?), then we should listen to that guy, too.

As far as I know, there are a lot more talented women trying to say there's a problem in tech than there are talented white guys trying to say there's a problem in basketball, though, and more often than not their complaints are met with comments like yours. And then we wonder why there aren't more women in IT.

Comment: Re:Here's MY test (Score 1) 515

by Nermal (#49328733) Attached to: A Bechdel Test For Programmers?

...and if we lived in a world where it was ever a question whether 99.9% of projects would pass your version of that test, you might have a point. In that world, the "white male" version would, for whatever other faults it has, at least be trying to provide a metric for measuring integration of a marginalized group. But as that is not the world in which we live, your version of the test is pointless at best, and offensive at worst not because it is inherently so, but because in the real world it can only serve to gatekeep on behalf of a currently empowered class, not to serve an unempowered one. That is why the tests are different.

And to the people jumping on Dave420 with stats about national and world population in response to him using the term "minority", please note the "for programmers" part of the title here. The fact that women are a majority of the population at large has zero relevance to a point about their minority status within the relevant context i.e. the industry, other than to underscore the fact that maybe that disparity is indicative of a problem we should look at and have ways to measure our success at addressing.

Comment: Re:I think you've misunderstood (Score 1) 105

by Nermal (#48564531) Attached to: Seeking Coders, Tech Titans Turn To K-12 Schools

Yes, and their about page, which the OP clearly didn't bother checking, says:

" is a registered public 501c3 nonprofit, with support from the general public."

Yeah, the .org by its self doesn't mean anything, but it does mean you should probably check for obvious answers to questions like "what is their business model?" before jumping straight to the conspiracy theories.

Comment: Re:FUCKING WHINERS! (Score 1, Insightful) 105

by Nermal (#48562353) Attached to: Seeking Coders, Tech Titans Turn To K-12 Schools


I am absolutely disgusted by the number of people on this thread who seem to be threatened by the idea of encouraging an early interest in CS. I've been volunteering with Hour of Code this week, meaning that, unlike everyone else I've seen on this thread, I actually have some first-hand knowledge about it. I've done the exercises myself, and have seen kids using them start to "get it". How many of them will keep with it? Idunno. But if more kids get into coding because they were given the right tool or had access to a CS curriculum earlier, and they keep exploring it, and that leads to more developers on the market, if they have half as much fun getting there as I did, then that's awesome. I'm not a big enough asshole to value my own special snowflakeness over exposing kids to as many opportunities as possible, and I'm ashamed of how many people around here seem to be.

As for those who scoff and turn up their noses at drag and drop interfaces like Scratch, oh man... where to start? First, it's an INTRODUCTORY tool. Nobody is pretending that this is what professional developers do. Second, it's an excellent way to provide that introduction! Your first language is often the hardest to learn, right? Why? Because you're not just learning the language, you're learning how to think like a developer, how to break down problems and structure solutions in a particular way. Language is an implementation detail. Thus, tools like Scratch abstract it away so you're dealing with the most essential presentation possible of concepts like variables, control structures, and so on. You get that down first, then you start writing "proper" code. IMO it's a brilliant approach.

Comment: Re:Just a guess (Score 1) 255

by Nermal (#45978989) Attached to: Google Removes "Search Nearby" Function From Updated Google Maps

...ah, I think I see what you mean ("aggregating public information" == addresses of stores and whatnot, and assuming "nearby" to be relative to some arbitrary address), whereas the way I always use "search nearby" is on my phone, with "nearby" being relative to my current GPS coordinates. ...which kinda makes this whole conversation moot for me, since I've never been happy with Google's interface for that, and generally just use Yelp instead. *shrug*

"I may kid around about drugs, but really, I take them seriously." - Doctor Graper