I'd buy LEDs at a significant premium over CFLs since I have had poor experience with CFLs
Other have said the same thing, but I haven't had trouble with CFLs. And I bought my first one about 25 years ago.
Falcon
I'll replace my CFL with LED light bulbs when they are as good as CFLs for area lighting and do not cost much more than them.
Just curious how you'd calculate the proffered life expectancy of LED's over CFL's. In theory they should last 5-10x as long, but that doesn't translate into a 5-10x price premium, counting the time value of money.
As things are now I wouldn't count on life expectancy as I have to watch, keep track of, my budget. I'm on disability and haven't worked for more than 10 years. I hope I can start working again soon, though I don't what I'd do. I hope I can work as a photographer, but my eyesight isn't really good enough for that I think. That's the least of my problems though.
I'm also skeptical that any electronics manufactured today will last 50 years - maybe 20 years if I'm lucky and that won't command a 4x price multiple on CFL's (assuming they last 5 years which the old decent ones do).
True. The US is a disposable society. What's worse is the rest of the world is following in the US's footsteps.
Falcon
And 3 years ago CFL's were going for as high as $10+ per bulb.
They still are if you want the fancy dimmable 3-way type. But like today, I was buying 6-packs of decent CFL's for $15. I'll be happy to replace them all with LED's at $10 (2012) per equivalent light output.
I'll replace my CFL with LED light bulbs when they are as good as CFLs for area lighting and do not cost much more than them.
Falcon
The reduced cooling should help in lowering the costs of the LED versus the CFL and the reduced energy consumption will be a help as well.
Yesterday I went to Walmart to get new light bulbs, old CFLs I had burned out. There Walmart had LED bulbs in stock, at around $20 a bulb. I ended up going to Sam's to get CFLs, an 8 pack cost less than $6.
Falcon
And 3 years ago CFL's were going for as high as $10+ per bulb.
There are still $10 CFL bulbs, Walmart has bulbs for $12 as well as under a dollar.
Falcon
So far equally good experience with two LED bulbs ($$$). Especially like the new warm white LEDs from Philips.
Once LEDs are good for area lighting and drop in price I'll start replacing my burnt out CFLs with them. But for now I don't see a reason to replace what I have now, I don't use spotlights.
Falcon
Yesterday I went to Walmart to get new light bulbs, old CFLs I had burned out. There Walmart had LED bulbs in stock, at around $20 a bulb. I ended up going to Sam's to get CFLs, an 8 pack cost less than $6.
Paying $6 for eight of them might explain why they 'burn out'...
I guess you didn't understand what I said. The 8 bulbs I paid $6 for were to replace bulbs I bought years ago that eventually burned out. Just for the heck of it, I thing tomorrow I'll label new bulbs with the date as I replace older ones. Then I can keep track of exactly how long they last me. But I know I haven't had a CFL last less than 5 years.
Falcon
Although tantalum capacitors are used widely in PCs, they are not essential. Niobium (columbium) has no significant use in PCs AFAIK. Your broader point is correct.
I also said cell phones, and notice one of the links I provided is from cellular-news.com. What I didn't mention was all the other things we take for granted that use coltan and other rare earth mineral. Quite simple the US has little of the rare earth minerals and has to import most of it. I think given the tyme necessary the US can solve these problems, however even then it may be imported people (immigrants) who do it.
Falcon
You're talking about those floodlight-shaped CFLs, right? Those damn things take forever to warm up (the light starts near the base and takes a few seconds to reach the tip) but I've found putting regular instant-on CFLS in those fixtures works just as well. Regular CFLS usually start >50% brightness and warm up much faster.
No I'm not. Sure Walmart has dimmable floodlight CFLs but they also have regular dimmable CFLs. GE CFL 26wt Dimmable Spiral - 3 bulbs $15.44. They have a bunch more too.
Falcon
There is virtually no selection of dimmable CFL, the few that exist are incredibly expensive
I think that's enough examples to show there are inexpensive dimmable CFL bulbs. However Walmart has more.
CFL sucks. We're better off with incandescent in the meantime.
I've used CFLs for more than 20 years and have not had a problem with them. That's not entirely true, I have had problems with them. In photography, photos on film show color casting with florescent bulbs, and with incandescent bulbs as well. The first CFL I bought I paid $20 for, and over the next 15 years it paid it's cost back in avoided cost. That is in energy not used and in not having to replace incandescent bulbs. I wonder if you enjoy wasting money.
Falcon
In what way? I actually contend the opposite, international trade helps most people. The less paid for an item the more money people have. That money can be used to buy other items, pay down debt, or be invested. Of course, until recently, people here in the US lived beyond their means. They continuously borrowed money the buy more stuff.
As for Walmart/Sam's, Walmart now has stores in China. And Chinese make enough money to buy from Walmart, as well as upscale stores. I don't recall what newspaper it was but one reported the first week Apple's new iPhone was available in China more than 1 million were sold there. Seeing as Apple products are only affordable to the wealthy, there are a lot of wealthy people in China. And those people buy American products sending money to the US. Another American company making money in China is Caterpillar, which builds construction equipment in Indiana employing thousands of people. John Deere based in IL does business in Brazil, China, and around the world. There are many other US based multinational businesses who also are in Brazil, China, India, and Russia (BRIC) helping employ more American workers.
And without international trade you would not be using a PC, or a cell phone. The US does not have a ready supply of a number of metals used to make these products. A major source of Coltan, columbite–tantalite, is Congo. Unfortunately it's mining fuels the conflict there.
GE leads a call to develop rare earth minerals in the US to reduce our dependence on Chinese suppliers. If China wanted to it could shutdown a number of US businesses by stopping exporting these minerals ton the US.
So who's the jerk?
Falcon
I've tried different brands of CFL ( generic, GE, Philips, Nelson ) , many sizes as well (including a monster 65W unit) and the failure rate is high compared to the proposed life on the boxes.
I've been using CFLs for more than 25 years and I have never had a CFL last less than 5 years. the first CFL I bought I bought in a specialty store, it lasted about 15 years, and the last 2 tymes I bought them I bought them at Walmart.
Looking forward to converting to LEDs soon.
When LEDs are good for area lighting, the only spotlighting I use is my flashlight, then I switch to them.
Falcon
Bought 10 CFL bulbs for my kitchen. They all died in less than a year.
The CFLs in my kitchen I put there more than 2 years ago. Of course they replaced other CFLs, and those were there more than 5 years, after surviving moving.
Falcon
These things come with warranties? @ $20+ dollars per bulb, I'd be pretty pissed if the thing burned out after several months.
As I said in my original post, I bought an 8 pack of CFLs for less than $6. The first CFL I bought cost $20, but that was more than 25 years ago and it lasted about 15 years before burning out. Between the cost of the bulb, how much energy it saved, and how long it lasted I believe I saved money paying more to buy it than the total cost of buying incandescent bulbs instead.
Falcon
Other than not being able to use dimmers, the biggest complaint I have with CFLs is that now it's tough to buy just one or two without paying a huge premium. The multi-bulb packs are sometimes so much cheaper per bulb that it's often worth it to just buy the pack. But, since they don't burn out very quickly, I end up with a fairly large collection of each type of bulb.
Walmart, at least the one I went to, have CFLs that can be used with dimmer switches. I have the same problem with the multi-bulb packs though. I didn't want to get an 8 bulb pack, but even more I didn't want to pay a higher price.
Falcon
I had actually looked at them at full price earlier because CFLs die so quickly at the toilet and bathroom.
It's been almost 8 years since I placed the CFLs I use in my bathroom and they're still good to go.
I also bought 12v spotlights with LED.
I don't use spot lighting, so I'll wait to get LED lights until they're good for area lighting. Well, I may use a LED in a flashlight, replace the incandescent bulb in my Mag light with one.
Falcon
With your bare hands?!?
