Oh I totally understand. My point was more that those that support Gun Control for the purpose of saving lives tend to ignore the fact that the homicide rate has been falling for 20+ years.

People would also consider the statistics you cite as Racist. Though they are true. I would take a step back and just point out that some 90-95% of gun violence are gang related or drug related.

Here is an interesting statistic, the murder rate has been falling since the late 80's/early 90's and is roughly half of what it was (10.2 to 4.7). It seems like if the goal is to save lives, that this would be the number people would use instead of specifying HOW they were murdered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade

But yet Illegal fully automatic weapons are still used in crime, though it is very rare, but then again just a rifle being used in crime is very rare.

It was more for illustrative purposes, but you are correct. a dremel and a jig saw blade can be made into a Lightening link.

I was going to come here to post exactly those survey findings.

That only accounts for Legally obtained fully automatic weapons. What about Illegally obtained fully automatic weapons. Besides the fact that you completely ignore the nuances of the NFA and FOPA act of 1986 is staggering. It is COMPLETELY legal to own fully automatic weapons, however those willing to pay the price and go through the hassle tend to not be criminals. Instead they pay their brother vinny 20$ to illegally convert it for them.

No one needs a gun to kill you.

Damn these people for wanting to keep their company competitive and for wanting to provide jobs for people who would otherwise not have them!!! *Shakes Fist*

Based on my experiences on how most people that cant explain something simply are usually not as well versed on subjects as they think. And my 4 years in local city government. The best laws I have seen are concise, if you make them too big you risk scope creep and governmental waste. Complexity does NOT mean good or correct.

There is so much ambiguity in current law that the average person commits 3 felonies a day. (Just good "felonies per day")

As for your ad hominem attacks, no real response is needed. Hope you have a wonderful day.

Honestly, If you cant write a law in 2 pages, you probably cant effectively legislate the issue with laws anyway. Also, even with legalese there are huge loopholes and prosecutors and judges already interpret laws however they want.

Ah yes Detroit. The 3rd world city in the 1st world country.

Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring. (Hint both are violent crime)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/crime-in-england-and-wales-2010-to-2011

http://www.justice.govt.nz/pubs/reports/2002/intl-comparisons-crime/section-12.html#Table%20A3

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/violent-crime

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan

Have fun! And since you cry [Citation Needed] Please verify all of your bullshit statistics about Venezuelan Gun control. The fact is the country and cartels are the biggest threats in that country. Also make sure your statistics are coming from an unbiased and reputable source.

Well, the majority of Firearm related fatalities are suicides. More than 60% in fact, but that isnt what is being debunked.

First of all your assumption that the outcome of those suicides would be different if there were not firearms is spurious at best. But the the report that is typically referenced is the Kellermann report. In the report kellermann only accepted cases of self defense where there was more than 1 aggressor. That means only a few percent of reports were considered matters of self defense. He also included those where the situation was an aggressor knew the firearms owner and attacked him as a "family member, friend or acquaintance" being shot unjustly. And if all of those were note bad enough, it was included that when a Police officer is forced to shoot a criminal in the criminals own house, that they were counted as a "family member, friend or acquaintance" being shot unjustly. It is all around bad statistics that are highly misleading. The biggest take away from his data set is that criminals get shot but sometimes those criminals are "family member, friend or acquaintance".

The issue though with saying that is that you make the assumption that not having access to a firearm would change the ultimate outcome. In Japan nearly all suicides occur by hanging and they have double the normal suicide rate of the US. Does that mean they should implement rope control? The fact is, it wouldn't make a difference whether they use a knife, jump off of a tall building, or use a firearm, the result is that they wanted to end their life, as tragic as that is.