my experience of my wife is not primarily objective and empirical
No? What other kind of experience is there? Your thoughts are really happening, are they not? Hormone dumps as well? Memories actually recalled? Fun, sure, but where is the non-objective or non-empirical here?
We're talking past each other a little here.
What I meant to highlight is the difference between the inner and outer life. Outwardly, one has senses of sight, touch, hearing, and so on, with their corresponding objective, empirical measurables.
But there is also an inward life of relationships, philosophy, emotions, decisive will, ethics, reason, and indeed spirituality. This is the domain of the subjective, not being "out there" in common space between us, but being within us. (In this sense, however, the term "subjective" makes no claim to universality or lack thereof. Something can be both subjective and universal.)
Does the subjective have a material mechanism? Certainly. Is it limited to that material mechanism? I'm not sure, personally, but that's not terribly relevant at this point. The point at hand is that it's possible to concentrate too heavily on the material, objective measurables when dealing with the inner life. As Einstein was known to say (though it predates Einstein), "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
I submit to you (also respectfully btw, thanks for engaging) that just because you don't know how to describe something in simple terms, that said thing is not mundane in nature. For instance, one might well not know what's going on inside a radio, but that doesn't make the experience transcendent; it's still just as mundane as dropping a rock on the ground. No magic at all. You might think like crazy about it, wondering what is going on; you might experience hormone dumps, frightened by the voices you hear coming from the "magic box"; but the box is, in fact, not magic. What I'm getting at here is that your experience is not what makes something mundane, or not; nor is your understanding. It is what it is. And all the "is" we know of to date... you guessed it. Mundane.
Yes, it's good to remember our humility in these matters. There is a lot we don't know. :-)
Also just because something is mundane doesn't mean there isn't also mystery in it. Sir Isaac Newton was mystified by the apple dropping to the ground, much like your rock. And however far you dig, there always seems to be another layer, which is mysterious in itself. But I'm sidestepping the issue.
You're assuming that I'm lumping together what has no current explainable mechanism and calling that a soul, and assuming it to be a-material. That's a rather materialist way of presenting a fault in my argument. Rather like a hammer thinking everything is a nail.
See above. The inner life, what I would call the "soul" (but different than the "spirit" -- see below) has material mechanism. I don't disagree with you.
But note that if you're going to argue emergence, then you cannot also argue complete reducibility to elements, as many materialists tend to.
Religion makes claims of truth that don't share an identical domain with science, and therefore need not be mutually exclusive.
To date, we have discovered exactly one domain. Mundane reality. Religion is no more than an exercise of storytelling; there's no difference between a story of Zeus and one of Spongebob. Telling a story doesn't validate its content, any more than any flight of imagination actualizes the concepts involved. Now - if you disagree and would like to engage on the level of what you think the separate domain is, I'd be pleased to discuss it with you.
I didn't say they don't overlap.
But, it's a bit of a stretch to say that, say, philosophy is primarily material and observable, isn't it? Is it then worthless? Of course not. It has a different domain, with different rules and means of judging value.
I think what you're seemingly so frustrated over is people presenting faith-based arguments that attempt to brook no material counter. And this to you who doesn't hold those arguments to be valid, such that they are irrelevant in your particular discussion. It is understandably frustrating when people don't have the sensitivity to realize who they're talking to, and what authorities they'll listen to.
Please know, however, that those believing in a religion are not necessarily stupid
Well aware of it. *snip*
Ok, so... are you religious? If so, why? Do you think you have an immortal "soul"? What critical thinking process led to that conclusion, if that's what you think? Or, do you think that nature somehow requires a creator? Again, what critical thinking process led you there? By all means, let's talk about it. Perhaps I will have some observations that you can pick apart, or contrariwise, find useful.
Good questions, though loaded. I'm sure you have ready answers for each of them. Know also, that I'm not used to talking about these issues, so it comes a bit awkwardly, and I might have to stumble around a point before I can make myself clear. I may have to retract here or there. And I'm tired and a bit fried on top of it. So, apologies for being obtuse.
As long as we're getting to know each other, I'm interested in why you're such a militant atheist. Why did you become so? Do you think that it's provable that God doesn't exist? And so on.
Easy questions first. Am I religious? Yes. Quite. You might have suspected as much already. :-)
Why am I religious? Hm... that one's not as easy to answer. I can't even adequately explain my political voting preferences. ;-)
In all honesty, it's a really long story, and I'd probably bore you with the details. Long story short, it is evident to me, within the context of my life experiences, that God exists. I'll give you a few examples, perhaps.
We have good friends who attended our wedding, and were struck to the heart by the prayers for childbearing during the service. They had been infertile for over seven years, trying to have children. I felt a strong inner "nudge" (for lack of a better term) to suggest they get their marriage "crowned" (details aren't important). They did so in faith, and two weeks later announced they were pregnant.
Similarly, another set of friends were infertile. It was really an issue with them. Our priest suggested that their pain of being infertile was eating at them, and they had to be willing to let go of this and let God act in His timing, and that they should get rid of their infertility books. At first they refused, but eventually made clean with it, and got rid of their books. Not long afterward (not more than two weeks, but I can't remember the particular interval), they conceived, and will give birth shortly.
My wife was applying for grad schools. At the time, we were a bit uncertain about whether we wanted her to pursue a career, and whether it was the best thing for us. There were some external pressures in both directions, though the easier route out, for us at the time, was to get her into a doctoral program. That didn't sit well with us, because we felt we might be taking the easy way out, and not taking a stand on some important issues. So, we prayed about it, contented to let God's will be done, come what may. We were rejected from all ten schools we applied to, which is utterly crazy -- but you don't know my wife and what a good student she is. And after taking that in stride, two days later we were accepted by one school. Generally, they try not to do that, because all the schools announce their decisions on the same day, and if you're late, you lose people to other programs. They had actually sent us a rejection letter, though, it wasn't just tardiness. Well, that was sufficient indication to us that grad school is where we should be for the moment, and we were able to rest happy with that.
One last story. A friend went to Mt. Athos (I'm Orthodox Christian). He met a monk there with whom he became friends. He returned home. They had only occasional contact, during which he mentioned his daughter was pregnant. Well, some time passed, and one day he gets a fax from Athos saying "Congratulations on your new grandson!" No one had told the monk of the birth. It had just happened and my friend didn't even know it himself yet. He called his daughter a little irate, asking why she hadn't called him right away. She was floored, because she hadn't told anyone yet. But yet this godly man knew.
These aren't meant to be proofs of God's existence. But they aren't uncommon in our tradition, and you come to expect strange things of people who live a godly life. These sorts of events you can't really prove with science because they aren't reproducible, but it has it's own consistency, both in my own life, and in our tradition. They happen at significant times, meaningful times, and I would be remiss to ignore them.
Note that I'm not arguing that these "miracles" or whatever you would call them aren't explainable by science. Sure, science may come along some day and explain why holy people can do weird things. I'm ok with that. But changing oneself inwardly does seem to have observable outward effect.
I'm also not intending to showcase myself as a holy person, because I'm not. I included our grad school story to help establish the idea that these events are meaningful and personal.