After all, you identify yourself with the group: deniers by using the word "we". Fine. Then at least admit to yourself that you believe truth is subject to political dogma, and move on.

ROFL Brazil is WAY ahead of us; their vehicles already use biofuel and so are carbon-neutral. And not just cars.

But of course it's ridiculous to think that we could do what Brazil could do, after all, we are constantly told that it's impossible, that our only recourse is to keep giving $$ to oil and gas companies. And after all, why change? Climate isn't affected by human beings. Ignore Brazilians - how much is a Brazilian anyway? I bet it's not even a number.

"Now if we can only find ways to counter or offset it that don't hurt the environment even more than we already are, we'll be in good shape."

Yes. Don't know if that can be safely done in an 'active' way. We are looking at a chaotic system after all. Adding more input that's related to output might make things worse. About the only safe thing I can think of is to refrain from the behavior that got us here in the first place (by reducing the output of greenhouse gasses), and hope that the natural dampeners that kept our climate stable for so keep dampening changes. THAT is going to take a lot of effort in itself, though. We need new energy sources. I like the prospects of nuclear energy; hydro is about at it's limit (and is hard on ecologies), wind is essentially unreliable - ESPECIALLY in the face of climate change. PV is expensive and inefficient (barring major improvements that is) and that makes it also hard on ecologies, if it is to feed transportation and manufacturing. Heliostats are interesting - but there are only a few places they make sense - how do you get the power elsewhere?

This is NOT a simple problem, and not one that can be put off until the last minute.

Yup - since they can't 'deny' that it is happening at all anymore (thus absolving deniers of any need to do anything), now they assert that it's (some sort of a) a natural phenomena (deniers disagree as to which), that has to be wholly independent of our actions (thus absolving deniers of any need to do anything).

See a pattern here?

No. Because you made crap up about the poster and his family to be insulting and rude, and to feel superior, asshole.

Then you made up shit about me in order to justify yourself.

And you are still doing it.

I can see that's your 'modus operandi' now. You don't know how not to, apparently.

*note* "mine" meaning '1st IT job'

Very true.

Heheh. I got mine right out of high school, programming (Cobol. ugh.) I am fully aware of how lucky I am though. That is NOT the norm, and can never be something that high-school students can expect - or even work for. Chances are, that without a degree, you are hosed at the start, IMO. And that's not right. ESPECIALLY as degrees held rarely reflect more than vaguely on the position held. Over the years I've noticed how rare it is to get a career in the field you studied for.

You DID make shit up, you little smug little prick. You made up the "And to live a life of luxury and parties while you were there? Wow. Dumb parents" and "Also, who the hell told you to major in English Literature". You posted crap you completely made up to justify you being an asshole, and to make yourself feel good.

And you aren't done making shit up yet, are you?

"And there are lots of jobs out there, they're just jobs that you apparently think you are above"

Above? Hahaha! Never said I needed one, that I was looking, or even implied I had outstanding loans, did I? It is a FACT that there are more job seekers than available jobs - or did you not get the memo? It ain't because anyone is 'above' them - its because they DON'T EXIST. And for the record, I haven't been in school for 30 years, and I did everything from shovelling shit, to unskilled construction (summer jobs), arcade attendant (a real thrill), to washing dishes and running a register when I WAS in school - you are COMPLETELY off base. But that's OK. I'm sure you don't understand that people can hold opinions that aren't entirely self-serving, and that must be why you think I must be lamenting student loans and not having a job that can pay them off.

You're just making shit up to justify your 'position'.

But I think I get it - you must live in the libertarian fantasy-land where you can always get a job, (translation: the job market is somehow infinite), so you can justify all your sophomoric ideologies.

In the 80s. 30 years ago.

I got my start in IT in '79. Out of High School. It was _NOT_ as screwed up than as it is now, and it was rare then.

What, 1% could pull off a career like that - and only by starting then?

YES! But something needs to be done about the very real 'employment stigma' of not having a degree.

You are an idiot. Out of touch, too.

"You were told to go to college on debt?"

Not everybody can afford to pay out of pocket, and colleges that can be paid for by (non-existent, have you heard? Job seekers outnumber jobs) part-time work are as extinct as the dodo. Despite that, college is necessary to find jobs above the poverty line.

"And to live a life of luxury and parties while you were there? Wow. Dumb parents"

Uh huh. Not only an idiot, a mean-spirited idiot.

"In fact they pretty much insisted that everyone have a job while they went to school."

Uh huh. And these mythical jobs are where? You must be a right winger, assuming the job market is always infinite, that there are always available jobs.

"Also, who the hell told you to major in English Literature?"

Yup, idiotic right-wing asshole, making shit up in order to spread a little unjustified unhappiness around. But I'll bet that makes YOU feel great, doesn't it?

Sorry. The virgins were all used up by the last administration.

Yah because so many careers that don't involve fries are available to non-degreed kids.

This is almost true. There are some problems with your post, though.

"Educators will tell you that perhaps college should be reserved for those with the ability and initiative to do the work. Not everyone is ready for a college education, or able to engage in the rigorous critical thinking required. That's not popular with the salespeople, who want to sell college to everyone."

The 'salespeople' here are our government, trying to sell hope that even though they encourage industry to move offshore, there is a way for everyone to live happy fruitful lives. Education was that way. And it's necessary now; after all, to get a decent white-collar job now you need 'a degree'. It doesn't have to be related to your job. Jobs available (if you don't have a degree) will ensure that you live in poverty and die early.

"High school is now four years of day care because those teachers figure the kids will really learn to spell in college."

No. High school is now daycare because both parents now have to work to survive and NEED DAY CARE. Teachers are now expected to raise kids, but aren't allowed to punish them. Parents freak when 'little johnny' fails, and rather than take responsibility, they blame the teachers for their kids lack of effort - even though teachers have little or no power to make the kids do ANYTHING.

"When they cheapen those, too, we're going to have to cut out the middleman and bribe our way into careers."
Yes. Only the upper classes will be able to do this too. Oligarchy becomes permanent and the American Dream dies. A permanent, desperate underclass that will work like slaves for almost nothing will be available, and America will finally become 'competitive' with the third world. By becoming a third-world nation.