Comment Re:There Ain't No Stealth In Space (Score 1) 470
Rocket exhaust is free expansion of a gas if I understand correctly. It does not qualify for the effect of cooling in an external environment like the atmosphere because there is no environment to work against in a vacuum and thus work cannot be done and thus the energy that is kinetic cannot be dissipated into the environment. Nor does it qualify for the Joule-Thomson effect because it is not passing through the equivalent of a porous insulated plug (read the wiki on Joule-Thomson).
It is instead a free expansion of gas and that leads to NO cooling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_expansion
There is the possibility that divergences from being an ideal gas allow some slight cooling to occur but it happens at nothing like the rate that cooling from expansion happens in atmosphere because positive work is being done there against the atmosphere and that takes kinetic energy out of the gas. In a vaccuum, there isn't that to work against.
So any cooling from a gas expansion behind a reaction drive will be far slower than rocket exhaust cooling in atmosphere.
Additionally, the scatter graph for particles in an in-atmosphere rocket is going to be constrained both by the effects of gravity (will tend to pull the particles downward which is often back along the rocket's trajectory) and by the effects of the surrounding atmosphere (which the gas collides with to cool but this also limits the spread of the molecules significantly).
This is not true of expansion in a vaccuum which is almost entirely unconstrained and thus will be wider and faster than the expansion behind a rocket in atmo. There will also be no significant gravity (for the most part) involved so the scatter will tend to be either spherical or conical and wider than the in atmo rocket generates.
Given the heats required to produce enough thrust to move significant ship masses, you can expect either a lot of ejected reaction mass (more collisions within the ejecta, more scatter as a result around the direction of the ejecta as particles move off energetically in orthogonal directions) or a lot of heat in a lower amount of reaction mass (more energetic ejecta, also likely to be driven out further and faster) as compared to terrestrial lift rockets which move limited masses.
This means the combination of slowly cooling ejecta in a vacuum and rapidly expanding ejecta clouds (as compared to the terrestrial equivalents) and the greater energy needed for larger space vessels to accelerate combines to mean that the shielding option will have a very short period of effect and it seems pretty much guaranteed that ejecta will still be hot when it passes beyond the shield (even if it is a few kms wide).
Effectively, within 10 km likely and definitely within 50 km of ejection point, the gas will have expanded beyond the shield and be hot enough to be at least quite a few degrees above cosmic background which is very near absolute zero. Hence, easily detectable. And the continued expansion of the cloud will make for an ever expanding and hence larger silhouette which any even moderate sized array will pick up.
Unless you somehow invent a drive using no propellant that can produce very high thrust efficiency that is scalable to large scale drives (not yet done by our science), you are stuck either with low power (and hence mass limited) vessels like small satellites or drones that don't need decent acceleration or with ejecting hot mass that will rapidly scatter.
Everyone seems to treat reaction mass ejection as if this somehow produces an infinitely tight laser beam out the back. That's not anything like how a rocket exhaust behaves in a vacuum. No drive we have envisioned has that kind of character that is also not a very low power drive.
Some of the drives we are trialing as satellite positioning tools may have low signature, but they are not capable of the kind of push a warship of any worthwhile size would require (even a small one).
But hey, if you want to cling to the notion of stealth in space, go ahead. Nobody can disabuse you of your notion if you aren't willing to take the time to understand little details like gas expansion or the other properties of gases in vacuum that are relevant to your arguments.
It is instead a free expansion of gas and that leads to NO cooling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_expansion
There is the possibility that divergences from being an ideal gas allow some slight cooling to occur but it happens at nothing like the rate that cooling from expansion happens in atmosphere because positive work is being done there against the atmosphere and that takes kinetic energy out of the gas. In a vaccuum, there isn't that to work against.
So any cooling from a gas expansion behind a reaction drive will be far slower than rocket exhaust cooling in atmosphere.
Additionally, the scatter graph for particles in an in-atmosphere rocket is going to be constrained both by the effects of gravity (will tend to pull the particles downward which is often back along the rocket's trajectory) and by the effects of the surrounding atmosphere (which the gas collides with to cool but this also limits the spread of the molecules significantly).
This is not true of expansion in a vaccuum which is almost entirely unconstrained and thus will be wider and faster than the expansion behind a rocket in atmo. There will also be no significant gravity (for the most part) involved so the scatter will tend to be either spherical or conical and wider than the in atmo rocket generates.
Given the heats required to produce enough thrust to move significant ship masses, you can expect either a lot of ejected reaction mass (more collisions within the ejecta, more scatter as a result around the direction of the ejecta as particles move off energetically in orthogonal directions) or a lot of heat in a lower amount of reaction mass (more energetic ejecta, also likely to be driven out further and faster) as compared to terrestrial lift rockets which move limited masses.
This means the combination of slowly cooling ejecta in a vacuum and rapidly expanding ejecta clouds (as compared to the terrestrial equivalents) and the greater energy needed for larger space vessels to accelerate combines to mean that the shielding option will have a very short period of effect and it seems pretty much guaranteed that ejecta will still be hot when it passes beyond the shield (even if it is a few kms wide).
Effectively, within 10 km likely and definitely within 50 km of ejection point, the gas will have expanded beyond the shield and be hot enough to be at least quite a few degrees above cosmic background which is very near absolute zero. Hence, easily detectable. And the continued expansion of the cloud will make for an ever expanding and hence larger silhouette which any even moderate sized array will pick up.
Unless you somehow invent a drive using no propellant that can produce very high thrust efficiency that is scalable to large scale drives (not yet done by our science), you are stuck either with low power (and hence mass limited) vessels like small satellites or drones that don't need decent acceleration or with ejecting hot mass that will rapidly scatter.
Everyone seems to treat reaction mass ejection as if this somehow produces an infinitely tight laser beam out the back. That's not anything like how a rocket exhaust behaves in a vacuum. No drive we have envisioned has that kind of character that is also not a very low power drive.
Some of the drives we are trialing as satellite positioning tools may have low signature, but they are not capable of the kind of push a warship of any worthwhile size would require (even a small one).
But hey, if you want to cling to the notion of stealth in space, go ahead. Nobody can disabuse you of your notion if you aren't willing to take the time to understand little details like gas expansion or the other properties of gases in vacuum that are relevant to your arguments.