Microsoft still hasn't removed FTP. That's how I did my last install of Firefox on a system with XP re-installed because
I refused to run that IE garbageware for any reason if I can help it.

Check out How to Be Silicon valley (http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html).

Based on the description of the right environment, we're not talking Kalamazoo or Toledo by
a long shot. Besides, didn't people try this crap en-mass before the dot.com bust?

In all seriousness, any process that is so well understood with an unchanging problem domain should be shoved overseas to keep the outsource companies busy and a high turnover of limited skilled coders believing that all software development is mind-numbingly dull:) __PLEASE__ keep doing this!!! That means when the hot-shot business idiot realizes he missed the call, that the problem domain isn't that easy he'll either get the axe or quit and do the same stupid thing somewhere else. Meanwhile, the time and distance, cultural communication problems and the BLATANT conflict of interest between customer and outsource company (e.g. "Oh yes! we will do that feature right away!" - wow.. that's a horrible idea:) these guys will pay us to re-write it because they're idiots! Whoo-hoo!) will make the solution that's no longer working easy to throw away and re-start with a minimum 50-50 local/offshore team. More job opportunities for people who stick around because outsource partners can't be trusted.

If the project can be speced and doesn't fail and doesn't need to change, great! That means it was a crap problem domain with nothing interesting to work through or solve - let the offshore company developers' eyes bleed with stupid feature changes for the next n years. If it does, it's job security for those of us who have stuck through this outsource stupidity (which is only a short-sighted cost savings move - the IT world equivalent of sinking all your money into credit default swaps).

For the past decade, 100% "cheap" outsourcing has gotten more and more expensive and has proved to be a bad idea for fast moving, competitive, REVENUE GENERATING projects. Failures have lead people to keep some level of local skills to address communication and quality aspects that are vital to success. But here's the fun part: how do you become a competent Senior Software Engineer when increasingly all the entry level positions are available in India and China? You don't:) That means I become a rare commodity as corporate America digs it's own human resource grave.

Keep digging corporate America... keep digging...

I don't care if this is personal time and you're gripping from the hotel WiFi. That contract brings in a ton of money and we in middle management will keep blaming techies and throwing them under the bus to cover our incompetence. Now get back to work! I've got hookers and blow to attend to:)

Sincerely,
--Your boss' boss

The key term here is "web apps". I recognize the MVC pattern has been around for quite some time. It's a question of when they bothered to bless something in web application stack. Also, given the nature of MVP (model-view-presenter) example you cite (User Interface Process Application Block) relying on small state interaction it seems like a complete and total mis-application of the pattern to the domain of web applications. Unfortunatly, I should know: I've worked on a code base that used a home grown MVP framework in Java. It sucked. I hope for the sake of those poor ASP developers they're not touting MVP on the web as a reasonable way to build applications....

Yes I have. And dear dog, do I wish I were lucky enough to have used it professionally. Although it looks like Seaside has been around longer than that the web site says:

So out of sheer luck in speaking in broad generalisims, I'll stick with my 2004 number:)

Glad to see Microshaft is on the cutting edge of software development practices as usual...

Don't show them all the bad offshore outsourcing news either...

As a professional developer with a little over a decade of commercial experience, I can assure you that the jobs where you have to write TPS reports, attend constant meetings, write reports about attending meetings, attend meetings about reports, and occasionally meetings about meetings or reports about reports are toxic worthless environments. About 5 years ago now this trendy thing called "Agile" happened to the software development world as a way to put a bullet in crap like this.

One of four things is going on with software companies now 1.) Agile is understood and people will find creative ways to fire anyone who want's to build a Dilbert empire 2.) Agile is being adopted and the toxic environments get transformed into livable ventures as Agile practices get successfully adopted and the toxic people are pushed out, 3.) Agile is subverted by PHBs and the toxic sources kill it's adoption while all the worthwhile people leave it to fester 4.) Agile is ignored/blocked - the environment is already dead AND toxic.

You can fight like hell to get into or stay in company #1, pitch in to help company #2, avoid or flee from company #3, and short sell the stock on company #4. Also, as a programmer, you should be writing code that either makes money or reduces costs in a niche or market that is growing. If the market isn't growing, move on to another domain. If there is no revenue associated with the lines of code you write, go where there is. As a buddy of mine says, "NEVER be part of the cost center - ALWAYS be in the profit center!".

At any rate, if you don't want to write code - no offense, but get the hell out of the way and make room for those of us who do.