Where the heck do you get the $600 figure? It's $350 - $400 for an unlocked Galaxy S.
I got the $600 figure from a search for samsung galaxy s unlocked on Google Products.
Wow... that's crazy. They go for $350 - $400 on Fleabay.
This will be my last reply to you. You seem to be either intentionally obtuse or just too dense to understand simple concepts. If this post doesn't clear up your misconceptions of basic principals of math and market economics, then I suggest your nearest elementary school for some remedial education.
So you are saying that the free phones actual cost is the cost of the contract you use them with.
So a cheap cell phone you could buy for $50 standalone, is really a $1000 at retail because of the plan.
No, I am saying it is the cost of the phone to buy it without a contract. THAT is the typically accepted definition of retail cost. I know that, I suspect YOU know that, and everyone else knows that. You are just being dense to support your flawed reasoning.
Do you see where your notion of retail (that you have defined BTW) breaks down? Your assumption that the contract price is part of the phone price is making the assumption that the phone service itself has no value!
Since that is not my assumption, nor did I make any statement to imply that, my notion of retail holds true. Since my notion of retail is the standard accepted definition in the United States (and I suspect most other free market economies), my notion of retail is the correct one. Yours is the wrong one. A subsidized phone price is not considered a retail price. End of discussion.
You jacked up the cost of the data plans, and also paid way too much for third line when a non-data phone could simply be $15/three months on Virgin Mobile. You paid for the larger data plans without thinking about how much data anyone actually uses - the cheapest plan is comparable if you never use more data than that.
My numbers come from actually having an iPhone plan and knowing how much things cost.
I did not jack up the cost of the data plans. I GOT THE NUMBERS DIRECTLY OFF OF AT&T's WEBSITE. How much more blatant can I be about that? The $45/mo plan is the same plan that I get from T-Mobile for $25/mo. I'm sorry AT&T is nearly twice as much as the same T-Mobile plan, but I don't make up the numbers. Sure, I could get a lesser plan from AT&T, but then I would be limited on what resources I have available to me. We are comparing Apples to Apples here (or in this case, Apples to Samsungs) - If you want to compare different plans, then T-Mobile has a data plan for $5 a month compared to your $30/mo plan... whatever - the numbers work out to be about the same. AT&T is at best almost twice as expensive to 6x the price of a T-Mobile data plan.
As for the third (and 4th and 5th) line not having a data plan - you said yourself that you're around WiFi a lot... well guess what, so are the 3rd, 4th and 5th lines. So often, in fact, that they don't need a data plan. They are also Galaxy S phones, though. They need to be smart phones. They don't need a dataplan though. It's not my fault that AT&T charges 2x the cost of additional lines compared to T-Mobile. Take it up with AT&T.
You obviously do not know how much things cost on an iPhone, since you keep spouting outright lies and false information. I am going by what's available to me, as a new customer, to AT&T, as confirmed by their website.
Actually I established it was not meaningless. I see no reason to get a smart phone unless I actually can use it for applications; otherwise I would continue to simply ay the $15/three months I used to pay for a simple phone.
You did no such thing. The only thing you did was claim some bogus 100,000 apps figure that is completely meaningless. Most of those apps are crap and useless. As I've already stated, I have no found a single app on the iPod Touch that I OWN and USE that does not exist either directly or with a similar app on the Android platform. Read this again: There is NOT A SINGLE APP on iOS that I use that DOES NOT EXIST in some fashion on Android. So your claim about applications is completely false.
The Apple name is also linked to Apple design and build quality. Which is why they are popular.
Until now, I might have agreed with you. However, with the advent of the Galaxy S line, your line of reasoning is completely destroyed. The Galaxy S phones are on par with or superior to the iPhone in terms of build quality. Disagree? Provide a shred of evidence to the contrary.
Application support and everyday usability.
Everyday usability is absolutely superior on a modern Android platform. The phone is more responsive than iOS and is 100x more flexible than iOS. I'm not sure what you even mean by application support? Are you seriously trying to claim Apple supports every application sold in it's marketplace? If not, application support is handled by the application developer(s) and thus is completely dependent on the developer. This is exactly the same as Android.
iMovie? Pages? Numbers? Art Studio pro?
Wow. Seriously? This is your answer? Holy crap, you are farther gone than I thought. If you think doing content development on an iPhone is realistic, you are completely insane. I have a computer for that. I wouldn't do that on an iPhone OR an Android based phone.
Games? Really? Got thousands of those on Android, too.
They very fact you haven't yet you believe you have proves my assertion.
Enjoy your platform, and your imaginary numbers! I'll continue to pay far less than you per month for my iPhone, with more application support and better hardware.
The very fact that I haven't? I've provided you with proof in the form of hard numbers (taken from AT&T and real retail price off of eBay), and you've provided some vague claim that the numbers aren't real, yet provided none of your own, much less provided none that can be backed up by looking at any "official" site... yet somehow, my numbers are imaginary. Heh... sorry man, in the real world, people who provide hard data with facts to back them up vs people who provide anecdotal evidence with absolutely nothing to back is up... the person spewing the nonsense is the idiot. Guess which one you are?
I will enjoy my platform. It costs me less to buy, costs me less to use per month and has superior hardware and UI. You're damned right I'm going to enjoy it! The funny thing is, I have and use both iOS 4 (iPod Touch) and the Samsung Galaxy S (and have been using Android since v1.5 on other phones). You do not use both, but somehow you can speak authoritatively on the subject and you somehow magically have more experience on both platforms than I do.
You can go into a retail store, and walk out with an iPhone 4 after paying that price. I'm sorry if you want to play word games, but that is retail by any definition EVEN THOUGH it is subsidized.
Since the poster ALREADY stated he "would carry a phone anyway" that rendered the subsidy point moot, since he would BE PAYING FOR PHONE SERVICE ANYWAY. A contract price doesn't factor in if you'd have a contract regardless.
I'm not even sure where to begin with all your flawed reasoning in this post. Guess we'll start at the top.
Retail is defined as the total cost of the phone. A subsidized phone with contract is not defined as retail. Look it up. It likely even says retail or MSRP on the little sign in the AT & T store/ads. You'll see $299 with contract and then in smaller type $800 MSRP or retail or whatever term you want to use. By any definition, and by any reasonable person (which we will establish you are not, clearly), retail is not defined as a subsidized price.
But since as you say that applies to both platforms, and there are around a hundred thousand more apps on the iPhone... that's ONE THOUSAND excellent applications you cannot use. Oh wait, I was calculating that 99% of applications were crap... you were saying 95%. Make that FIVE THOUSAND good/great applications.
I can't even think of 100 apps that I find useful, much less 5000. So again, your numbers are meaningless. And again, I will state I have not found a single application on the iPhone that I would use that does not have the same or nearly same application on Android. Let me put it more simply for you, so that you may better understand the point: Any application that is useful and worthwhile on the iPhone is already on Android. The number of apps in the respective app store is completely meaningless.
WTF? There is no plan under which you would spend that much. The unlimited (well, 2GB plan which most people will never exceed) costs me around $70/month. I dropped my "real unlimited" plan just to save $5/month, because there's simply no way I'd reach 2GB even tethering.
I could go with the 256MB plan, and it would be around $60/month recurring. I can't even get a MiFi for that price!
I don't know where you get your magical numbers from, but I got my numbers from the AT&T website.
But your right, my numbers were way off. I had forgotten a few features I had on my T-Mobile plan. Here's the real numbers:
$89.99 for 1400 Min family plan
$30 for 3 additional lines on that plan
$90 for two comparable data plans
$4 for phone insurance
$30 for unlimited messaging
That's $244 a month for the same plan, with 100 more minutes a month, that I get from T-Mobile, which costs me $169/mo. So that's $74 a month it would cost me for a lesser plan with AT&T, just so I can get an inferior piece of phone hardware... but hey, I'll have access to 100,000 useless apps! Yay! So for a 16GB iPhone model (since we are comparing like models), I would have to pay $50 more per phone and $74 more per month, or $2024 MORE for an iPhone setup similar to my Galaxy S setup. TWO THOUSANDS DOLLARS! That's enough to pay for more than additional year of service on my current plan!
Do you not see the huge disconnect in your own figures there? The screen isn't nearly as good as the iPhone 4 (especially if you ever use the phone out in sunlight) and the Galaxy doesn't have as much storage. The iPhone4 battery life will just cream the Galaxy. Not to mention, as noted, the lack of applications and an OS that is rougher around the edges than iOS. There's a reason why the actual price of the iPhone4 is twice as much - in consumer electronics you do get what you pay for.
No, I don't see the huge disconnect in my figures. The only disconnect I see is in your magical figures. I've already said the screen is superior to the Galaxy S (even though I've not personally seen the iPhone 4 screen, I'll still concede the point). The lack of applications are meaningless, as we've already established, yet you keep harping on it like it's some benefit when it's not.
I've not had my battery run out on the Galaxy S, so I can't really make any statement there... my phone lasts a couple days on a charge with normal use, and that's good enough for me. I charge my phone every night anyway, so additional battery life is meaningless.
The OS is not rougher around the edges, which is what I've been saying. Compared to my iPod Touch, which is running iOS 4, which I assume is the same OS on the iPhone 4, iOS 4 is clunky and archaic compared to the modern Android platform. I used to think the iPod interface was cool when I had my previous phone, now I find it cumbersome and annoying when I'm forced to use it after using the latest iterations of Android. iOS shows it age and stiffness more and more as each day passes and various implementations of the UI are introduced for Android. iOS is old and crappy now, sadly. It was cool at one time, but not anymore... sorry. It reminds me very much of how cool Fisher-Price toys were when you're a kid, now, though, once you grow up, the toys are hilarious in their juvenile nature and you can't understand why you loved them. iOS is very cartoonish and Fisher-Price-esque.
You're right, you get what you pay for in consumer electronics. In the case of the iPhone, you are paying for the Apple name! Hope you like paying for nothing useful!
Not a hard choice at all - if you want a slightly worse platform experience that will cost you more per month, by all means choose Android. But as I said I'm a practical person so I can't let Android FanBoism draw me in, where there are so many other reasons to go the iPhone route.
A slightly worse platform, how? Again, you've shown nothing useful on the iOS platform that the Android platform doesn't already have. With the Galaxy S line, now the hardware is superior in almost every way (with the exception of the screen, again.) As for costing more per month, I've just established that it's $74 MORE per month for the Apple platform.
Android FanBoism... lol. Every point you've made I have shown to be completely flawed, yet you aren't an Apple FanBoi. Whatever... It's always useless to argue with Apple Zealots. *shrug* Your facts are flawed. They can be demonstrated as being flawed and yet you won't even admit they are flawed when the information is presented to you by AT&T's own website. Sorry... can't help you out if you won't even accept the numbers from AT&T.
That's why I have a separate phone, an Audiovox 8610. It costs me $7 per month through Virgin Mobile, which is far cheaper than getting a proper phone and proper phone service through AT&T or T-Mobile.
No it's not. T-Mobile prepaid is cheaper than that per month, given the amount of minutes you claim to use.
About $4/mo given your claimed usage, to be exact.
"But it's $20.00 cheaper!"
More like half the price. I live in the United States and already have have a phone. If I want an MP3 player that surfs the web over Wi-Fi and runs apps from a repository, an iPod touch costs 300 USD compared to 600 USD for a Galaxy S.
Where the heck do you get the $600 figure? It's $350 - $400 for an unlocked Galaxy S.
Really? Where can I pick up an iPhone 4 for under $300 retail?
Anywhere that sells one? That is the price. for the highest end one no less, the 32GB model.
I'm going to carry a phone regardless of whether I have an iPod Touch or not..
The iPhone price is with a two year contract, but since you said you are going to carry a phone regardless, that is irrelevant. Not to mention that now with the 256MB plan the iPhone is the cheapest smart phone to own - I use the device heavily and almost never cross that amount, because I'm around a lot of WiFi.
Or of course you could get a Touch and something like a MiFi and just use Skype on the Touch.
since I can now replace the iPod Touch with a Galaxy S and lose zero functionality
Only if you don't consider the potential loss of almost a hundred thousand applications a drop in functionality. I would, but then I am a practical person who likes to consider what a device can do for me instead of just supporting a handset maker because I like them.
$299 with a contract is NOT retail. It's subsidized. Retail is the specification. You won't find an iPhone 4 32GB for less than around $800 retail (and that's considering eBay retail).
How do you figure the 256MB plan makes the iPhone the cheapest smart phone to own? AT&T's prices are through the roof. My T-Mobile contract is about 30% less than any AT&T contract AND I have unlimited data (or if there's a cap, I've never reached it).
I don't consider the loss of almost 100,000 applications that are completely useless to be a great loss. 95% of the apps on the iPhone/iPod are complete junk (same goes for Android as well). So giving the total number of apps is a meaningless figure. The amount of USEFUL apps on Apple and Android are about the same.
So you claim to be a practical person who likes to consider what a device can do for you instead of just supporting a handset maker because I like them and then go on to defend Apple? I'm not sure how you reconcile that. The iPhone is demonstrably inferior in most categories to the Galaxy S, yet you support them, and support them with either false information (retail price) or meaningless statistics (total number of apps).
So I would have to pay $700 for lesser hardware, clunky UI, vendor lock in, reduced functionality if I wanted to switch (US) carriers and/or be forced into an exceptionally overpriced, limited contract for an iPhone... or pay $350 - $400 for superior hardware, modern UI, open source/no vendor lock in, unlocked for international use AND have a US phone contract that is 30% less than AT&T for the same or superior data transfer limits. Let me think which is a better deal here... I dunno, you tell me.
Cost breakdown:
Monthly recurring:
$185 / mo minimum from AT & T for similar plan
$135 / mo minimum from T - Mobile for similar plan
Hardware cost, subsidized:
$199 - AT & T
$149 - T - Mobile
Hardware cost, retail:
$700 - iPhone 4
$350 - Galaxy S
So $50 a month less and save $350 up front for superior hardware and UI or twice the up front cost and $50 more a month for inferior hardware and UI.
Not really a hard decision there, unless your an Apple Fanboy.
For the record, if you read my other posts in this thread, you'll see I'm not a Samsung fanboy - I think they have crap quality control and exceptionally poor handling of defect issues (then again, so does Apple). They just happened to have made the best Android based smartphone out at the moment, and it's the best by a HUGE margin, not just a little bit. It has leapfrogged every other Android phone out there and leapfrogged the iPhone 4 as well.
That doesn't have a phone, so you'll have to add the cost of a phone onto that
iPod touch + Audiovox 8610: $160 per 24 months on a prepaid carrier. iPhone 4 or Galaxy S: ten times as much. The major carriers want to sell me 450 minutes a month at minimum; I use less than a tenth of that.
Now, if you want to compare music players by themselves, I can show you a number of MP3 players that are superior to the iPod Touch for under $150
Can you recommend an MP3 player that has a repository of apps? I looked into the Archos 5, but Archos is having trouble getting Google to let it onto the Market. I've been considering buying a Nokia N900 from Dell.com and just not using the phone part.
My family plan uses more than 1500 min a month, so yeah, that's not going to work. But 10 times as much is completely false. Get a prepaid plan from T-Mobile. If you use less than 45 minutes a month, $150 will get you 36.5 months of usage. In fact, if you just purchased $100 worth of prepaid minutes, you'd have more than 2 years worth of talk time, AND you could use a Galaxy S. That would save you $300 on the iPod Touch.
So for $450 - $500 in total cost, you could have the equivalent of your iPod Touch, your Audiovox 8610 AND more talk time to use as you see fit and only have to carry one device that is faster and more refined than an iPod Touch. Factoring in the cost of the iPod Touch, the Audiovox phone and $160 on a prepaid carrier, you're at a wash at worst or ahead in money depending on how good a deal you find on the Galaxy S.
As far as recommending an MP3 player with a repository of apps, no I can't. I want my MP3 players to play music, not do other things... I have a smartphone for that.
So pretty much the point stands. The Galaxy S is superior to the iPod/iPhone in every way (except for perhaps the screen).
1. Plug into a Windows 7 64bit machine and be automatically recognized.
2. Sync with a computer without having to find a hidden 'mount' feature.
3. Be detected by and work automatically with the client software that supports it (try doing this with Kies).
4. Sync all of my playlists and pictures from iTunes (double-twist works great, but does not have good granularity for syncing photo folders).
5. Allow me to download songs over the air from iTunes and have them end up right in my media player.
6. Include a media player that allows me to access songs, videos, and podcasts from a single UI.
I think all of the above are important for your average, non-geek phone purchaser. Enough so that the iPhone is still a superior choice for most. It hurts a bit to say that too.
1. You have to install the Apple drivers to get the iPod to work on Windows. Nothing different about the Android platform.
2. By hidden, I assume you mean the big window that has a MOUNT and Don't Mount button that pops up when you plug it in?
3. I have no idea what you're talking about.
4. If I don't have an iPod, why on EARTH would I ever want to use iTunes? MediaMonkey works great.
5. There's about 5 different places you can download music from to Android devices and have them show up in your media player. No need to pay the Apple tax and have potentially DRM'd tracks.
6. Guess you shouldn't have bought an AT&T Captivate then. The Galaxy S has that, or at least for audio. I haven't tried watching video with the media player yet.
The Galaxy S is superior... I can't speak for the hobbled carrier specific versions of the phone.
You're not following XDA closely enough.
GPS has been officially stated by Samsung to be fixed in Froyo update.
All I have seen is Samsung saying it's been "optimized" in Froyo... nothing about a fix. Given the fact that they would likely say it's been fixed (since they publically admit it's broken) instead of "optimized."
Samsung has an official firmware fix for the GPS problem on the Galaxy line of phones. The firmware is scheduled for release in September. The forthcoming Epic 4G from Sprint will be released with this updated firmware.
Haha... I have a firmware fix for the GPS, too. But I'm not releasing it for another month, either. Cause... umm. Just because I don't want to! It's not because I don't know how to fix it, honest!
Given the fact that there is nothing the Galaxy S can't do that the iPod Touch/iPhone can
I know of one thing the 32 GB third-generation iPod touch can do that the Galaxy S can't: retail for under 300 USD.
Really? Where can I pick up an iPhone 4 for under $300 retail?
Ohhh... you mean the iPod Touch. That doesn't have a phone, so you'll have to add the cost of a phone onto that, so your retail price just jumped up above $500 for the same features.
I'm going to carry a phone regardless of whether I have an iPod Touch or not... since I can now replace the iPod Touch with a Galaxy S and lose zero functionality and gain some features, comparing the cost of an iPod Touch to a Galaxy S PHONE is meaningless, you'll have to compare prices to an iPhone 4.
Now, if you want to compare music players by themselves, I can show you a number of MP3 players that are superior to the iPod Touch for under $150, thus destroying your comparison on price.
So yes, the iPod Touch costs less than a Galaxy S, but it also does less. That kind of makes sense. I mean, if you wanna compare that, lets compare a G1 with a 32GB card in it for under $200.
Where has it been confirmed it's a software problem?
I've not seen any confirmation of this on XDA or Cyanogen... and of course you can't trust anything coming out of Samsung.
What matters is that Apple is finally starting to get some real competition.
I lost count of the number of times I heard that about the iPod...
Same here... but the Galaxy S phone, GPS issues not withstanding, absolutely destroy the iPhone 3 series. I haven't used an iPhone 4 series, so I can't say how it compares to that rev, but from what I understand, the only superior part on the iPhone 4 is the screen. Otherwise, the Galaxy S phones are superior in every other way.
I have an iPod Touch that I use regularly, but after using the Galaxy S for the past 3 weeks or so, every time I have to go back to the iPod it feels horrible to use. The iOS 4 UI is clunky and stiff compared to the modern Android implementations and really shows it's age. Given the fact that there is nothing the Galaxy S can't do that the iPod Touch/iPhone can, I've been considering selling the iPod, since it's now redudant and out of date.
Since the iPhone's IOS is the same as the iPod Touch for the most part, there is absolutely nothing attractive about the the iPhone anymore. Old tech, old UI, limited memory, limited capabilities. It's an inferior product and will only get more inferior as time goes on, since the iPhone 4 was just released and is already obsolete.
There is a temp fix out there. Some manual changes and it works by going thru one of Google's servers instead of Samsung's. So it is a small drawback. I'm sure they will get it fixed. Maybe it is an issue in Android 2.1 and not 2.2? But GPS isn't everything. What matters is that Apple is finally starting to get some real competition.
The fix doesn't really work. It improves it some, mainly by using network location. It doesn't do anything for the actual GPS problem, it just masks the problems with various assists. Oh, and you have to root your phone to apply those "fixes" that really aren't. Not a big deal, but most people aren't going to do that.
It's a Linux system presented in all stores across the planet, on prime shelf space.
Just like the thousands of other Linux systems presented in stores across the planet on prime shelf space?
"It's the best thing since professional golfers on 'ludes." -- Rick Obidiah
