Well I was thinking something along the GPL but for torrents. kinda like a derivative of the creative commons. something that could just check and see oh yes okay this file checks out okay put it in...

I am very much a pro liberty person myself, but where are the rights for artists? where is their freedom to express their work in a specific way that protects the work and the artist? their is none, and that kind of is the problem.

Yes they are aware the robbery is happening. They always post there responses (which I think are funny btw) to letters addressing them them about these problems.

They know it is going on. It has been brought to their attention. They permit it to go on.

They are involved in the transaction to some extent.

I never said file sharing is robbery.

Taking a creative work. Ripping it or recording it and distributing it to others without the permission of the creator is.

  and everyone should do what they can to protect the creative works and the artists.

The line begins with personal responsibility, and the line begins when they created a site made it index search able.

At that moment they became personally responsible for the acts others would be using there website for.

The ISP's also bare a responsibility believe it or not, and most ISP's if I am not mistaken will hand over records if a warrant is issued.

They do this specifically so not to be held liable for the acts of its users. If they didn't they could be charged as accessories or harboring fugitives.

Yes as I mentioned to someone else who brought up guns. Let's say you are a gun seller, and you have so many people that want to buy guns from you that you have no time to do a background check on all of them.

One of them is a mass murderer in his past and shoots someone.

Are you liable? ... well who really is at fault. The gunmen? the gun itself? maybe the bullet since it really did do the damage? or maybe physics?..

personal responsibility begins somewhere and with you it was the moment you decided to sell guns.

Same goes with them. The moment they create the site allowed indexing and a search bar they became personally responsible.

I agree the analogy probably needs work. I do like the automated door. I know it's impossible for them to manage every entry...

I think torrents are a great innovation, but there should be some checks on it to ensure what you get is quality and for intended use. Like a moderated torrent system that removes copyright works and malware etc. and leaves only the good stuff that is intended to be shared.

I think a torrent distribution license would be ideal.

That way it's registered and people know what to share and what not to...

I'm not against information exchange.

Information:

1. knowledge communicated or received concerning a particular fact or circumstance; news: information concerning a crime.

2. knowledge gained through study, communication, research, instruction, etc.; factual data: His wealth of general information is amazing.

3. the act or fact of informing.

Keyword is knowledge. I don't ever want to limit your knowledge or understanding of the world.

Creative works are different.

This is something someone has created in hopes that others will enjoy it and at the artists discretion would like to be compensated for that enjoyment.

The point is personal responsibility. At some point it comes into play. If I sold a gun without doing a background check and sold one to a past mass murderer who then after me selling the weapon shot someone would I be at fault? or is it just the gunmen? or is it the gun? or maybe just the bullet since that is what really indeed did the damage.

The story begins with me allowing someone the ability to do something wrong without being personally responsible for doing the check necessary.

See the point wasn't just opening the door.. the point was opening the door and being aware that robbery is happening... Which they are.

Personal responsibility has to begin somewhere, and it begins the moment you open the door in the first place.

The argument that "We don't host the files so we are not at fault" is extremely weak.

Now I know it's unpopular on here to go against TPB guys here on slashdot, but they could be considered accessories.

Just as if someone was robbing a bank and you hold the door open so they can escape easier.

Now there is no crime for "opening a door" in fact that would be typically a nice gesture.

But the act of aiding and enabling those who commit a crime to do so does make them liable.

Then what about "we didn't know they were robbing the bank so we are not in fault" this doesn't work because TPB were indeed the individuals who made a door in the first place, and with that creation bares a responsibility of who goes in and who goes out. Of which they were clearly notified that some individuals were committing crimes.

I understand blah blah you can't control me blah blah big media lots of money blah blah I don't want to pay for something I enjoy... but whatever get over it.

All media should be free. Okay done.. now if all media is free than all software should be free. okay done. Now all services and products should be free okay done.

It won't work. Complete freedom is not good because we need constraints for society, civilization, and technology to progress.

A fish in a fish bowl lives a fish out of a fishbowl dies.

If we were to make all media free it would in effect kill the fish, in this case big media, and if we were to do that then there would be:

No Star Wars, No Star Trek, No Family Guy, No Indiana Jones, No DailyShow, No SNL (pick the year you like), No Office, No Office Space... you get the point...

While some champion the new use of technology I for one am disappointed that more aren't championing protecting creative works.

For Israel it is working. If you took a look at the maps it is systematically eradicating the people, through military action.

So for them military action is working, and thus violence is working for there agenda.

And they will continue to do so until people realize what is effectively going on.

I am strictly against violence, but things will never get better until people understand the origins of this conflict, and also Great Britain and US should cease and desist enabling Israel to commit these atrocities. Whether you know it or not. You are paying for the violence.

The events of history and poor decisions of the past influence and create the problems of today. How quickly you are to write off history.

Do you tell your doctor not to look at your past medical records? I hope not.

Where/When was the first place?, and by who?
I think it's pretty obvious that the Israeli government has "played the victim" definitely its fare share throughout history, but if you don't know much about the history well then it can be hard to distinguish who is the victim and who is the agressor....

Okay now before we begin I would like to say that the whole conflict deeply saddens me, but you have to take an objective look at the history.

Now if you want to go way back to the biblical/Torah references all you have to look at is exodus in which Moses led the Jews out of enslavement in Egypt, upon which Joshua took over leadership and attacked and exterminated (genocide) the Canaanites in order to secure the "promise land"

1. Part of it wasn't the Jews to begin with
2. They killed people in order to get it.
3. This is in Jewish text.

History did not begin in 1948 as the Israeli government wants everyone to believe.

Now really the modern day conflict begins around in the early 1900's with the Zionist congress in Switzerland,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Zionist_Congress

but let's move forward to 1937 with the Peel commission. The land now that encompasses modern day Jordan and Israel was then known as the British Mandate of Palestine. That's where the Palestinians get their name.

Now due to an influx of Jewish immigration (encouraged by the Zionist Congress) to the area this sparked lots of conflicts between the resident Arab population leaders and the new Jewish immigrants. Hostilities flared up on both sides and as the Mandate was soon to expire granting sovereignty to the region an agreement was to be sought. Given the populations at this time the Peel commission met to formulate the arrangement and this is what was proposed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Peel_map_pd.png

As you can see from the map it looks very different from today's common recognized maps of the region. The peel commission was not agreed upon by the Arabs or the Jewish immigrants as both sides wanted more than what was offered. The largest mistake was in part due to the Arab leaders stating that they could not assure the protection of the Jewish immigrants.

Now as we move forward in history this was debated back and forth as skirmishes still continued to flare up by both sides attacking the other until World War II broke out.

Now Britain, who still claimed the land as a province, was in dire need of financing for it's war with Germany. Members of the Zionist Congress in Switzerland helped in financing Britain's economic needs under pretense that a more favorable arrangement could be made regarding the Jewish Settlements.

In the meantime massive Jewish immigration began
to descend upon the British Mandate of Palestine exploding the population.

This of course sparks more conflicts with Arab leaders and residents in the area.

Now once the dust settles on WWII the British Mandate of Palestine expires and the moment it ends Israel declares it's independence. on May 14th, 1948. Now this declaration of independence doesn't sit well with the Arabs in the region as it was still thought to be up for discussion and arrangement.

With the aid of the British forces in the region whom the Arabs had no reason to believe would be allied with the Jewish population they were able to maintain there independence by defeating any aggressive forces put forth by the Arab population.

Here is a UN partition plan for Israel in 1947 a year before independence was declared.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png

Now what followed after that were a few short wars in which Israel defended it's claim for sovereignty.

In doing so Israel aggressively went forward trying to bring in new western allies to aid in it's desire to bring forth a nation that included ways to try and bring in the United States to support the effort. A major issue at the time was that of the Suez Canal

This led to some successful, and one very unsuccessful attempt in the Levon Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

Now the Suez problem was a large deal. Egypt wanted to own it's own canal, and French-British-Israeli forces did not want that at all. Egypt furious about this banished the current UNEF peacekeeping force that was stationed in the Sinai and began massing tanks and arms at the Israeli border.

After years of growing aggravation with the new nation of Israel many surrounding new Arab nations including Egypt at the time were looking at the nation of Israel as an expansionary threat. The Arab nations began to increase there military forces. Israel realizing that surrounding military oppositions would be detrimental to it's survival preemptively attacked all surrounding Arab countries leading to the Six Day War.

In doing so Israel captures several territories still disputed today as this is a direct violation of the Geneva convention provision Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949

It was letter upheld by the UN in 1973 that the Palestinian people are protected under the Protection of Civilian Persons in Times of War
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/dcb71e2bf9f2dca585256cef0073ed5d/7a33d0cf052d2c19852560de005649f3!OpenDocument

To this day Israel is still in violation of this.

Now having read this if you already had made up your mind due to media campaigns, your personal relationships, perpetuated guilt over the holocaust, or are not open to looking at history, or respecting international law....

Then it is difficult to see what is really going on and people will go on killing one another until maybe finally people actually sit down and accept that there has been huge mistakes and faults made by BOTH sides.

It's easy to label a people evil, terrorist, horrible, barbarians, enemy if you know nothing about them and want to label them as such a hasty generalization. The American Indians, African Slaves, Palestinians, Jews, Aztecs, etc.

    Kicking people out of there indigenous lands and or wiping them out for selfish personal gain is nothing new, but don't think for one second that Israel isn't or hasn't been taking part.

What everyone is witnessing is the eradication and removal of a people. In just 75 short years. 100 years from now people will look back on this with great shame.

It's 2009. It's time for humanity to grow up.

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=377637&cid=21558759

Okay now before we begin I would like to say that the whole conflict deeply saddens me, but you have to take an objective look at the history.

Now if you want to go way back to the biblical/Torah references all you have to look at is exodus in which Moses led the Jews out of enslavement in Egypt, upon which Joshua took over leadership and attacked and exterminated (genocide) the Canaanites in order to secure the "promise land"

1. Part of it wasn't the Jews to begin with
2. They killed people in order to get it.
3. This is in Jewish text.

Now as to the modern conflict. Well we have some major issues here. History did not begin in 1948 as the post references.

Now really the modern day conflict begins around in the early 1900's with the Zionist congress in Switzerland, but let's move forward to 1937 with the Peel commission in 1937. The land now that encompasses modern day Jordan and Israel was then known as the British Mandate of Palestine. That's where the Palestinians get their name.

Now due to an influx of Jewish immigration (encouraged by the Zionist Congress) to the area this sparked lots of conflicts between the resident Arab population leaders and the new Jewish immigrants. Hostilities flared up on both sides and as the Mandate was soon to expire granting sovereignty to the region an agreement was to be sought. Given the populations at this time the Peel commission met to formulate the arrangement and this is what was proposed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Peel_map_pd.png

As you can see from the map it looks very different from today's common recognized maps of the region. The peel commission was not agreed upon by the Arabs or the Jewish immigrants as both sides wanted more than what was offered. The largest mistake was in part due to the Arab leaders stating that they could not assure the protection of the Jewish immigrants.

Now as we move forward in history this was debated back and forth as skirmishes still continued to flare up by both sides attacking the other until World War II broke out.

Now Britain, who still claimed the land as a province, was in dire need of financing for it's war with Germany. Members of the Zionist Congress in Switzerland helped in financing Britain's economic needs under pretense that a more favorable arrangement could be made regarding the Jewish Settlements.

In the meantime massive Jewish immigration began
to descend upon the British Mandate of Palestine exploding the population.

This of course sparks more conflicts with Arab leaders and residents in the area.

Now once the dust settles on WWII the British Mandate of Palestine expires and the moment it ends Israel declares it's independence. on May 14th, 1948. Now this declaration of independence doesn't sit well with the Arabs in the region as it was still thought to be up for discussion and arrangement.

With the aid of the British forces in the region whom the Arabs had no reason to believe would be allied with the Jewish population they were able to maintain there independence by defeating any aggressive forces put forth by the Arab population.

Here is a UN partition plan for Israel in 1947 a year before independence was declared.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png

Now what followed after that were a few short wars in which Israel defended it's claim for sovereignty.

In doing so Israel aggressively went forward trying to bring in new western allies to aid in it's desire to bring forth a nation that included ways to try and bring in the United States to support the effort. A major issue at the time was that of the Suez Canal

This led to some successful, and one very unsuccessful attempt in the Levon Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

Now the Suez problem was a large deal. Egypt wanted to own it's own canal, and French-British-Israeli forces did not want that at all. Egypt furious about this banished the current UNEF peacekeeping force that was stationed in the Sinai and began massing tanks and arms at the Israeli border.

After years of growing aggravation with the new nation of Israel many surrounding new Arab nations including Egypt at the time were looking at the nation of Israel as an expansionary threat. The Arab nations began to increase there military forces. Israel realizing that surrounding military oppositions would be detrimental to it's survival preemptively attacked all surrounding Arab countries leading to the Six Day War.

In doing so Israel captures several territories still disputed today as this is a direct violation of the Geneva convention provision Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949

It was letter upheld by the UN in 1973 that the Palestinian people are protected under the Protection of Civilian Persons in Times of War
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/dcb71e2bf9f2dca585256cef0073ed5d/7a33d0cf052d2c19852560de005649f3!OpenDocument

To this day Israel is still in violation of this.

So in response. There IS logical argument, but if you already have your mind made up, or are not open to looking at history, or respecting international law.

Then no there is no argument and people will go on killing one another until maybe finally people actually sit down and accept that there has been huge mistakes and faults made by BOTH sides.

It's easy to label a people evil, terrorist, horrible, barbarians, enemy if you know nothing about them and want to label them as such a hasty generalization. The American Indians, African Slaves, Palestinians, Jews, Aztecs, etc.

  Kicking people out of there indigenous lands or whipping them out for selfish personal gain is nothing new, but don't think for one second that Israel isn't or hasn't been taking part.

It's almost 2009. It's time for humanity to grow up.

Yes and we have had extremely high inflation and ticket prices have been raised to offset the losses curtailed.

But when you go back to the last film Titanic that broke all box records it was BEFORE the internet, file sharing, etc. took off.

"indulged in decadence only by a very small handful."

  In reality there are tons of people who work in the industry NOT making 20M a picture that help keep things going and they are always the first to pay the price.

In fact mid budget flicks 10-39M are now totally dead. They have to spend "500 000 000" to make projects these days because those are some of the ONLY ones that can make enough real money.

If a small niche project is made for 3M and they spend 3M on advertising. And it makes 1.5M in ticket sales, 1,500,000 in DVD sales and 500,000 Rentals then you lost 2.5M on it. Now if 1,000,000+ are watching it from torrent and usenet crap. and dvd bootlegs... well what is the incentive to focus on those smaller ones.

You can try and make 30-40 of these, but what happens is you are crowding shelf space. There is too much out there...so you have to go BIG BIG to get people's attention.

It's really a very complicated industry, and one that really doesn't need people stealing from it, no matter how rich you think all of us are...

Most of us work unbelievable hard 12-15 hour days 7 days a week just so YOU can laugh, or cry, or say "Woah that was cool"... the least you could do is buy it if you want to watch it...