I've tried both, and the google voice app is a must-have. The website adds a layer of complexity making most of the service just too painful. Tethering actually works better on the iphone 3Gs since it doesn't run as hot, but comparing it with cost makes it worth it IMO - I pay $52/mo including taxes/fees for my own tmobile account & unlmt inet. My sister pays >$60 for her iphone, when she's actually on the family plan with my parents paying $80 for the base phone. What's the cheapest iphone plan out there with unlimited inet?

And you need to learn a new language (usually). Anyone that knows java pretty much can write for Android. Thats why its developer - friendly.

Human life doesn't have equivalent value everywhere.

Is that sarcasm? Are you serious? I thought it was self-evident that all men were created equal.

I'm probably lost here, but I'm confused why it is bad. I mean, I see Germany is one of the few countries that has met its Kyoto obligations. And I believe they did that at least partially by
1. force power companies to buy solar power from anyone for a great price
2. German companies started seeing huge demand for solar, and could be sure it would continue to increase, so they increased investments and manufacturing
3. profit!
4. German semiconductor stock market gets a boost from foreign investments, and does well.
5. more profit
6. other countries buying german solar products and technology
7. even more profit!

Joking aside, it was business innovation that started investing only when they knew they could profit from it, which resulted in a net profit for the companies, and Germany met their goals.

So what's wrong with protecting the patent rights of companies that innovate, even if a lot of it will go to big oil companies?

So I may be missing something, but it sounds like you're saying that if all the systems only got 50% more efficient, and everyone was forced to join, sustainability is actually possible without destroying demand?

I am a numbers guy, and I haven't seen them, so you may be right - we might have a lower standard of living here in the US. But if we don't curb global warming, I see huge refugee camps forming, where people starve to death and start wars (and the defense dept agrees). So be sure to include those factors in your program: the # of dead parents and starving children. And come to think of it, if New Orleans refugees in Texas were any indication, the US will not be a happy place either, although they'll probably be alive and fed well.

I'm not trying to troll, but its how I feel and can't figure out a less inflammatory way of sayin it. Please try to extract the logic part w/out the emotion :)

Yeah, and all those people who can't afford to buy new cars or who don't have access to alternate transportation will just have to suck it up and choose between gas and food or rent/mortgage payments.
A smaller wagon would save her money on repair costs, even if her gas bill was the same.
Yet, you fail to adress whether or not it would meet her needs and standards. Clue: There's a lot of factors involved in choosing a vehicle. I'm getting close to dropping my minivan for a truck that gets half the gas mileage but which, as the minivan has problems with, does the jobs I need done.

I was replying to your comment about people who can't afford new cars. I'm saying those people eventually do get new or used cars, despite the fact they shouldn't be able to afford it, and then make the poor choice of getting the larger car. If they 'need' it for status or to sit high and make them feel good, then I think thats a want, not a need. So these people should not get to pollute the planet for free. If people have a genuine need for a truck, thats slightly different, but I still don't see why we can't put a battery in that too. If the big advantage of hybrids are regenerative braking, then a larger vehicle would produce more regenerative braking, and the advantage is still there. Even if a bigger battery is more expensive, the biggest profit margins are in trucks anyway, so the car companies excuses are just that. And if every car/truck in America is a hybrid, then you will see the price of those batteries go down.
You also fail to address that the true cost of polluting will be charged to us all in the future. The current cost is already high and barely being charged in car/fuel prices. I agree that people should be allowed to buy what they want, but not to a point where it hurts the rest of us.

"If there is a negative externality that they are not taking into account - figure out it's cost, and add it to the product (for the record, I think the negative externality argument is overused and doesn't apply here - but I'd rather have a tax on some of my options than to have those options removed)"

I would agree with these arguments if you see that through all the reasons we have a huge presence in the Middle East, oil is a big part if not the heart of them all. So fine, lets put a cost on all our military there, and put that price directly in a gas tax. If you want, we can even say the cost of our soldiers lost lives is $0, just to be conservative. I think the numbers come out to $3/g, which would be radical. A gas tax of adding $0.10 every year is more realistic, but still political suicide, so these fuel stds are the best they can do right now. It would take just a few Republicans to tell their Reps that a gas tax would be good to change that though.

And if you dont want to realize how much oil has to do with our military in the Middle East, ask our Defense Department whether Global Warming is a security risk. Thats where we get into serious money.

I don't know, I talk to a lot of poor people. I'm thinking of one girl in particular. She has 2 jobs and 3 kids, but has to have her giant new SUV. A smaller wagon would save her money on repair costs, even if her gas bill was the same. A lot of both poor and rich people can afford to change their habits, they just don't want to. OTOH, some people I talk to love not even owning a car in New York, and those people are more often thin, healthy, & prosperous.

If you really have a bleeding heart, think about the poor people on the Florida coast in 50 years, when everything they own is under water. Whats their property value? And remember everyone in America is rich compared to millions of coastline-dwelling people around the world.

Yes, we all should suck it up a little, change our habits a little, to save a lot of money, heartache and war 100 years from now. A $0.50 gas tax is the least we could do.

Because it "costs enormous political capital and pays insufficient returns." I'm still in favor of a small one though. The best thing I wish for but will never happen is a carbon tax, but again, the political forces against it would invest in commercials to rile up the Palin crowd like you've never seen. That is, unless enough of us that see the (security, humanitarian, and environmental) threat of global warming actually let our politicians know.

Well how much money do we spend on military in the Middle East? There's lots reasons why we're there, but they all eventually point back to oil. Since we get ~30% of our oil from there, I say we tax 30% of the entire cost of our military presence in all Mideast Countries directly to a gas tax. Thats actually paying for what you're getting, would the conservatives in us agree to that?

Actually I'd be happy not buying any oil from any country whose leaders and businesses have any predilection towards donating money to Al Queada.

No, what made last summer's gas prices so painful was that they were sudden. Make the gas tax very small, incremental, and steady over many years, and at least people (& companies) will know what to expect. Maybe even have a summer gas tax holiday if it gets bad again, or other methods of evening out prices.

Exactly - obvious cheapness of the stuff you pay extra for is just annoying. Tesla offering all the connectors and the nice screen - it strikes me as finally giving the customer some bells that are actually cheap without charging them for a 'package', granted the car's not out yet. But by all indicators, I find myself rooting for them, & wishing this GM bailout talk included giving Tesla some part of GM, like a manufacturing plant or something. They deserve it more.

& btw, I convinced my gf to get the '08 Civic Hybrid last summer (I told her to wait a few months, but she couldn't). The sales guys were adamant about the hybrid demand, & cost of the extra packages the car had, but she gave them the cost she wanted to pay (less than base sticker) & walked out. They called her back the next day and gave her all the options for free. Goes to show how much they really pay.

Ok, we get it. This car is almost, but ultimately, not for you. But I think it is for anyone who A) lives w/in 100mi from a repair shop, and B)
1. likes public transport every once in a while, or
2. has a 2nd vehicle, or
3. lives with someone with a vehicle they can borrow, or
4. takes long trips so seldom they don't mind the public transport

OR, anyone who has enough money to afford sending the car off for repairs and has a concern for the environment, or doesn't like sending money to the middle east, where some ends up in the hands of al queida, or believes in global warming, or likes to show off their tech, etc.

OTOH, the AUX & ipod input probably cost $1 each. I don't understand why every car built after 2005 doesn't have those.

Agreed. This is leap frog technology, skipping hybrids. I imagine GM has to do that to even out their guzzlers, increasing their average fuel efficiency & helping out their public image. But what nobody has mentioned is this country's expenses if we don't subsidize electric cars. How much money will we end up spending in Iraq, and what percentage of the reason for that war is oil? What are the security risks and costs of global warming? We've known since '07 its huge. If anyone thinks today's global economy is bad, what happens when we multiply drought and floods everywhere?