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Journal FortKnox's Journal: Hypocritical Biased Elitist Bigotry!! 18

OK, those that want to know why I am always the person up in arms about articles and posts, here's a good example of why!

First, read an article how RMS says you should politely ask people not to use Word docs. Everyone says how much they hate word docs, don't want to use anything to convert them, and look it the seriousness of everyone's comments.

Now, read an article to prevent outlook users from reading emails. Now, look at the comments. Its all a joke that we enjoy! Screw the MS people! Its good for Linux! Don't even get me started about sites that only use IE!

Jesus...age...Christ... you hypocritic bigots!!
Free (as in beer) means free in linux, free in windows. Simple as that. If you want free to only mean linux then it ISN'T FREE!
You'd think a buncha geeks would learn this, wouldn't you?

God, it just infuriates me the elitism that goes on here.
Read those two articles, then wonder why people won't switch from Windows to Linux....
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Biased Elitism!

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  • I do so wish that everyone would take a step back from their 1998 views of the world, take a nice, deep look into whats been going on in their heads, and then rejoin the foray.

    In 1998 Windows was NT, Bluescreens were common, Novell Netware had a leg up on Windows in that it had a directory service, Linux IPO's were hitting the tropopause and the world was a peaceful place. We were all going to get rich, and Linux admins could be arrogant jerks, it didn't matter, they were needed, so the management of companies acquiesced.

    Now, of course, we're back to a more realistic world. I used to be a vehement linux zealot. Recently, i've come to the realization that it's more profitable, and certainly more realistic, to accept each operating system for its inherent capabilities. I love windows. I love unix. I've worked for a National ISP, a multinational tire company, and now a national tv station. The thing that got me my jobs at the last two were my open-mindedness when it came to the environment. I didn't try to convert everyone over to Linux on the first day. As a matter of fact, I don't even use linux. My speciality is unix and windows integration. I've met very few instances where linux was appropriate to implement.

    I helped deny more than one ALZ (Arrogant Linux Zealot) a job in my new organization, based simply on that the behavior of most of them, especially around here, is unacceptable in a professional environment.

    IMHO, linux is not ever going to take over the world. It's going to be there, its going to have its niche. But with people such as RMS, ESR and their followers at the visible helm of the community, many people in the business community, not neccesarily sysadmins mind you, will not respect any of its benefits.
  • You are so "up in arms" about this thing, and if what you said was correct, I might agree. But it's not correct.

    If you want free to only mean linux then it ISN'T FREE!

    This is not what was meant. Being unable to read a message in Outlook does not mean that you must use Linux to read the email.Outlook = Windows ? I think not.

    Try not to misrepresent your opposition, people tend to take you less seriously. If you want to make a point, make it count, don't discredit yourself by fluffing up the juicy parts to make it seem *SO UNBELIEVABLY HORRIBLE!!*.

    • True, but what if I enjoy using Outlook?

      RMS doesn't want Word attachments, but most people prefer word as my word processor.

      Am I conforming, because I use outlook?
      Or am I conforming, because I am being forced to use another email program?
      • True, but what if I enjoy using Outlook?

        Then, obviously, you have a problem. Not only do you have to deal with people making messages unreadable to you. You also have to deal with "The Virus of the Day" which exploits Outlooks inherent weaknesses.

        Of course most people who use Outlook think Outlook virii are "Computer Viruses" and plague us all. Not something that JUST effects the specific email client.

        RMS doesn't want Word attachments, but most people prefer word as my word processor.

        Well I don't think this would be so much of an issue if the whole "locking you in" factor didn't apply. If one person upgrades from Office97 to Office2000, it's not long before *everyone* has to upgrade. Because the minute the person with 2000 reads a document, 2000 automatically "updates" it to be a 2000 doc and everyone else can no longer read thier own document.

        These kind of underhanded tactics is what makes thier format for WordDocs un-supportable, and therefore people like RMS can't use it.

        So what if? Well, thats just your decision isn't it?

        Am i conforming, because I use outlook?

        In my opinion, yes

        Or am I conforming, because I am being forced to use another email program?

        I'm sorry, but when did Nick Moffit ever say something important enough to justify switching email clients? (let alone make you feel FORCED to do so). :)
  • I do see what you mean, but surely he does have a point - after recieving countless e-mails from windows users that are unintelligible unless you use Outlook or Outlook Express, surely there is some justice in his decision to turn the tables. At the end of the day, he only really hurts himself by making his e-mails unintelligable to the end user.

    I love using Evolution under Linux, but I keep getting html mails that don't display right - the fonts are far too small and I keep having to go to preferences to enlarge them. This is partly the fault of the mail client, but also due to uninformed windows users. I also get plenty of .doc files which I then have to view using Win4Lin or StarOffice (which doesn't always parse them). Doubly frustrating is that all versions of MS Word allow saving as .rtf files which are readable on almost any app/platform.

    Whilst I couldn't afford to be such a pain in the %^&, I don't think there is anything _wrong_ with an individual deciding to demonstrate how irritating it is to receive badly formatted mails. I certainly don't see how it is hypocritical (spelling?!) because they both have the same aim - to promote the use of universal standards (whether its free software or otherwise), but in this case RMS is taking the polite approach rather than the 'in-your-face' approach.

    • My biggest beef is that Linux comes (make that came) into the scene as an alternative. All the software is free, and most things you can run (and compile) under linux is also free in windows.

      Why does that matter?
      Cause people can "try stuff out" on their windows box, and slowly realize they can switch to linux...

      Now when someone cuts that off and makes something "Linux only" (or restricting it in some way) you are discouraging the curious. And more and more people keep using the "fight fire with fire" technique against MS.

      That is elitism. They want linux to stay small, and to stay complex, because it feeds their ego. They are one of the select few that can run the OS!

      /. is bad for the Linux community.
      Instead of thinking MS is the "big bad guy", they should see MS as competition. They should stay with what made linux big (the whole "free/sharing" thing!), and not sit around and bitch about MS.

      MS is NOT the problem here. Bitching about MS is the problem.

      Look at what Linus says about MS. He doesn't hate it. He acknowledges it as another OS. He just prefers his. Maybe all Linux users should have that outlook (sorry bout the pun), instead of trying to kill MS...
      • That is what I have been saying []. I actually like learning about Linux, but /. wants to try to make everyone who must use Windows (I'm an NT Administrator for pete's sake!) and isn't able to recite the kernal source code feel inferior. These people are the ones who try to make their users feel stupid to get some ego boost as well. I know my users don't know as much about computers as I do, and I'm glad, else I'd be out of a job.

        As for this guy that makes his mailing list to where people who use MS products can't read it, if he's that much of an asshole, I can't imagine needing to hear (read) anything he has to say (type). So let him keep his little message board, I'll associate with people who aren't OSists (new term! = discriminates based on OS). Ok, that is kind of corny, but I find this whole situation childishly amusing.

      • OK, but is he really attacking Microsoft, or is he attacking "elitist" computing in general? His gripe seems to be the ongoing use of proprietary standards such as '.doc' and ridiculous headers coming from certain e-mail clients that make them impossible to read on boxes that don't have MS software on an MS operating system.

        I relate to that - I keep getting e-mails that I can only read by opening them in a text editor and stripping out HTML tags. His response is to make that point. He's also well aware that he's resticting his postings, but makes the point that other mail clients such as Eudora are available for MS platforms that will read his mail perfectly well, so I would argue that to an extent he is _encouraging_ people to try out other software on their Windows box - although if they just get hacked off with him then it defeats the object....

        Personally I don't care a great deal whether other people use Linux or not, so long as there is sufficient number of users and developers to ensure that Linux continues to grow in quality and usefulness. I don't really see MS as competition, rather the manufacturers of an inferior product that many people insist on using. BUT the time when it gets my goat is when I receive yet another .doc file - for which there is really no good reason - or read that MS has secured yet another deal to impose yet another closed 'standard' on the world.

        So maybe the MS bitching comes from that. And I agree - it is often of the top and bordering / totally crossing the line into zealotry which really doesn't help anyone.

  • Pardon my ignorance, but I've seen this phrase used quite often lately, but have no idea how to interpret it. What does it mean?

    Anyway... Yep, It's a rotton thing. To cut off the vast majority of users from your mailing list, Just becuase you don't like the mail client you're using? That seems to be a bit extreme.

    Why force someone to use another mail client just to have the privelege of posting on a mailing list? I just can't believe how many people are applauding this guy, and in the same breath chastizing those that do not make web pages compatible with Netscape 4 (get a new browser, please. NS4 was a pile of... err horse ..., NS6 is okay!)
    • Free as in beer - means free for the taking, gratis. Implies that something costs nothing.

      Free as in speech is Free with a capital F, and usually means open source software or something promoting the concept of Freedom(has nothing to do with the dollar value)

A debugged program is one for which you have not yet found the conditions that make it fail. -- Jerry Ogdin