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Journal FortKnox's Journal: To CyranoVR 21

For the record as someone who watched the crowd run down by their building and rough up the hotdog stand guy and loot him blind, the Cincinnati Riots weren't necessarily Christian, but they were all black.

If you want me to go into detail on the Cincinnati riots, I'd be happy to.
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To CyranoVR

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  • Your post is vague on intent, but you seem to be implying that it's okay to identify people based on arbitrary and unstable grounds.

    For example, although the rioters in France are primarily from Muslim areas, you can't possibly know that any of them actually are Muslim just by looking at them. Similarly, the entire United States is primarily Christian, including Cincinnatti. You seem to be implying that it's wrong of CyranoVR to point out that the Cincinnatti rioters were Christian because they "weren't nec
    • I actually agree with the message Cyrano was putting out there. Just hate that the Cincinnati Riots are throw about just as much as he hates how the tragedy of the WTC towers gets thrown about.
      • Ah, yes. Politicization of tragedy. Convenient heart-string-pulling events that can be used to manipulate people when the facts aren't up to the challenge or the messenger is too lazy to use them.

        Unfortunately, like spam, it's effective against less competent people, so it's not going to stop anytime soon.
    • I always like to like at it like this :
      They may be black , white , any other colour , Christian , Muslim , Jewish , Hindu and etc.
      but one thing I would bet that most of them have in common is financial status , or lack there of .

    • That the Cinnicinatti rioters were presumably mostly Christian isn't relevent, since most of the people they were rioting against were also Christian. However, most of the rioters were black, and presumably most of the people being rioted against were not. That's why the Christian angle isn't relevent, but the black angle is.

      That most of the rioters in france are presumably muslim IS relevent, since we haven't seen catholic frenchies riot like this since, oh, 1848. Catholic frenchies just don't do this s
      • ..honestly identify the problem..

        But you're not honestly identifying the problem. The most common thread among the rioters isn't nationality, race, or religion, it's poverty and youth, which is why the locales are so important. The fact that the majority of the people from the locales are Muslim doesn't reflect anything except that the locales are primarily suburbs which is where the extreme majority of poor immigrants wind up in most Christianized European nations.

        The point here is that your media keep ta
        • Except that there are plenty of white catholic frenchies living in poverty, and they are NOT rioting, so far as I can tell from any of the news reports.

          Poverty is only part of the problem. The deeper problem may very well be the attitude of the white catholic french towards black muslim immigrants, which would have nothing what so ever to do with poverty. Poverty would merely be an indicator of the racism problem, not the problem itself.

          You're looking at symptoms, not causes.
          • Except that there are plenty of white catholic frenchies living in poverty, and they are NOT rioting...
            Yes, but 2 out of 10 for white, catholic Frenchies is far less significant than 2 out of 3 for young, non-white immigrants when you're talking about people feeling marginalized as a group.

            The deeper problem may very well be the attitude of the white catholic french towards black muslim immigrants...
            True, and you're correct that prevailing attitudes in France are the deeper problem. But that problem has not
            • You are saying we shouldn't bother to note the rioters are muslims. Perhaps their muslim-ness isn't directly relevent, but if you decline to make the observation at all, and insist the ONLY problem is poverty, you completely miss out on the opportunity to fit in an important piece.

              Their muslim-ness may not be directly relevent, but if we follow that it can lead us to that valuable missing piece - these are a people who are being subjected to, at the best, bigotry, and at worst, out right racism. You can't
              • Well, we're never going to agree, but I'm telling you that the problem has nothing to do with Muslims specifically. The French are anti-anything-not-French in their country, it really doesn't matter if they're Muslim or not. It's just that the locales that are rioting are predominantly where Muslims have immigrated to (though it has since spread elsewhere).

                The problem, and everyone already knew this years ago, they just can't ignore it anymore, is this ultra-nationalism, nothing more or less.
                • The French are anti-anything-not-French in their country

                  As well they should be. Where I understand the idea of people having the right to migrate for work, refuge, and asylum, it is the responsibility of the immigrants to take on the religions, languages, cultures, and traditions of their new homeland, not the other way around.
          • This time [wikipedia.org].

            Please stop being so disingenious, it really is quite off-putting.
        • Christianized European nations

          Which are these? Much of Europe, at least Western Europe, is very non-religious. I live in Norway, which has been branded as the least religious country in Europe. Having a state church doesn't mean shit. The people who have the most sympathy/empathy for Muslim fundamentalists here are... *drumroll*... Christian fundamentalists!

          • There's a difference between being "non-religious" and being privately religious. Most of the people I know still have "the faith", but they can't fathom the attitudes Americans have toward public enforcement of it. They view it as something private, not something that policy should be formed around.
      • You're kidding me, right? Have you even been to France? Do you know any Frenchmen/-women at all?

        (ethnic) French people are very secular. They pretty much don't give a rat's ass about the Pope or Catholocism...

        • 1000 years of catholicism can not be so trivially dismissed. They may not be actively catholic, but the influence of the church in their culture and traditions is deeply ingrained. It cannot be any other way. No nation can so lightly reject its longest standing instutitions and pretend they have no impact on who or what they are, nor how they got to where they are today.

          It may not be in-your-face today, but it definitely has its role to play in defining who and what the french are, even today.

          Just like t
          • My mother points out that many in her generation haven't been to a Catholic service in years (decades) and may have been divorced, used condoms, or whatever, but they still plan on getting the Last Rites (or whatever the official title is) when the time comes.
          • No nation can so lightly reject its longest standing instutitions and pretend they have no impact on who or what they are, nor how they got to where they are today.

            Whatever. Say that to Catholic Spain, where gay marriages are now legal...

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