And you don't find this relevant to this discussion? Exactly where costs are coming from and why? Seems a hell of alot more important than just giving everyone insurance that pays for everything and just raising taxes to account for our out of control healthcare costs.
It's relevant to the discussion. Too bad that, AFAIK, there aren't any studies to spell out where costs are coming from and why. The quote I give only gives a "from" but in mostly esoteric terms that give virtually nothing on the real where and why. Now, if you could provide a study that actually broke down who was using the health care system and how, I'd love to see it. The closest I've seen is little snippets that are often an abuse of statistics.
A very good question. Perhaps it calls for a study (rather than hands over eyes + dump cash into anybody's pocket that asks for medical care). It doesn't even have to be perfect accountability. At this point, I'd settle for any .
You seem to be missing my point. There's already been fuck tons of studies done that show "this significantly increases your risk of cancer type X" where "significantly" just means that there is an actual effect and it's not merely a placebo effect and where "cancer type X" doesn't necessarily apply to any other type of cancer or condition. There are very few examples of any one thing causing one major condition that's preventable and therefore in scope of accountability.
My HSA grows every year (and accrues interest). I fully well intend to have a buffer (+ insurance) for when misfortune strikes me.
That's a ludicrous statement, but thanks for saying it anyways. It's entirely why I asked. You "intend" to have the money "when" misfortune strikes. Yet by its very nature, you have no idea when misfortune will strike, whether multiple misfortunes will strike, or the scale of the cost. Or do you seriously contend that everyone should strive to have millions in savings just in case? Because anything less is unreasonable. Insurance is more of a risk pool precisely because of that and not merely for even "catastrophic" emergency because such a term because untenable very quickly on the cost of many medical procedures.
So then they should end up paying for their mistake, or their children should be taken and given to someone more responsible to take care of.
For the former, you can't get blood from a stone. For the latter, we already have a huge backlog of foster kids.
Well you've finally come around. So aren't you then incensed that next to zero effort was put into healthcare cost control in Obama's healthcare bill?
I would be if I actually thought any health care law passed in the US would do such a thing. Really, we're so well beyond the incensed point on how the system already works, you'd be hard pressed for me to become any more incensed Any real effort to fix the problem would involve either (a) public conversion of the health care system--leading to "death panels"--or (b) massive government regulation into the health care system--as if the current mess is really helping and further regulation is unlikely to be any better than Obamacare.
I never painted all of it as such. In fact, I specifically called out cases that are not self-caused. However, some of it is damn well self-caused. Such as type 2 diabetes for instance. Which statistics show to be ~95% of diabetes cases. So that's at least $245 billion (http://www.diabetes.org/advocacy/news-events/cost-of-diabetes.html) that's highly likely to be self-caused. I could bring up numbers for lung/throat cancer and smoking as well.
Yep, those are the major two ones I'll grant you.
Heart disease is likely strongly linked to obesity as well.
Actually, it's most strongly linked to age as is stroke most strongly linked to age. "It is estimated that 82 percent of people who die of coronary heart disease are 65 and older." Of course for medical cost purposes, we might worry more about the ones that live--although without a study, we don't know if it's a one heart attack kill or a many heart attack kill and when the "magic" age hits hence a much greater cost on the 65+ crowd.
Don't pretend these studies have not been done.
Plenty that show a disease is "strong linked to obesity" which means that not being obese cuts your risk by a "significant" percentage. Then you get old and you still get the disease because age is the most strongly linked factor. So, cut all the health care to the old since invariably they're the ones we all know inevitable should be accountable for their age.
NONE of those people are accountable atm. If they're poor, they do as they damn well please, and the rest of us pick up the costs of their incredibly expensive lifetime vices.
Except for vice taxes. And attempts to increase vice taxes. With the goal that those taxes then pay for their medical care. Right, that doesn't work because (1) the government doesn't actually use the money properly and (2) the poor are too damn poor to ever pay for their own medical care. In short, you want all the poor to just die except for the cheap, preventable stuff. Because I fuck well know that I'm poor, not obese, not a smoker, not a drinker, etc, and I'll likely still have a heart attack because...82% of people over 65 die of it.
And most of those cultures also have a far healthier culture: less fat people, more exercise, less job stress, generally better lifestyles. But of course, none of those factors are considered when healthcare costs are compared from nation to nation.
Canada. Seriously, Canada. And let's not forget that less exercise, more job stress comes from working a lot because you're poor (depends on the work, of course). As for obesity, that's becoming pretty epidemic in Europe as well, although I would agree the US takes the lead. Too bad you don't have a study that that's the major cause.
In fact, the major problem with your whole argument is that it very quickly degenerates into one of wanting to off the poor and the elderly to cut costs. To hand wave about "tons of studies" without managing to find one that can actually consolidate the risk factors into hard numbers rather than general "greater risk". If it were enough to sate you simply to hold people at least "any" accountable, you'd already okay because we already have vice taxes on some things and you'd just call for more vice taxes on the rest.
Yet all the above ignores that Canada has very much a similar culture, lifestyle, etc, and they still manage to have a cheaper system. A major part of that is simply having waiting lists and not trying to solve it directly through money. Another major part is the government being the one in charge of rates--although I tend to believe the US government too corrupt for such things, I could be wrong and would be willing to give it a shot given how shitty the current system is. Sure, Canada has some major vice taxes--a major reason I bring them up here--but they're not enough to hold people wholly accountable because the only real way to do that is let them die.
Well, that goes basically for *all* medical conditions because once you choose the "well, they didn't choose their genetics" or "they didn't choose their age", yet their parents did choose their genes to some extent so they can be held accountable and people can't live forever so we can just hand wave all the age-related diseases. So, we do have your proposed shift to 95% of the "knowable" that insurance won't cover and we have lots of people dying out of some obsession over taxes or some shit and some self-righteous belief that studies prove us right that the people deserved to die.
Well, to me, I'd rather just have a well working system, damn the cost. We fail on both counts on that. And I can honestly see an attempt to only fix the costs only making the system even worse. Dare I bring up programming, but I honestly think we should focus less on the preemptive optimization. A shitty program using less cycles is still a shitty program.