An non-abrograted commandment to kill all Muslims even if they are not a threat to believers. This is evil

More commandments to do evil on innocents for having the temerity for Free Speech, Free Thinking, Equality of Women, Rights for homosexuals etc.

Their choice is to become Muslims (join the evil crew; which is evil), submit as dhimmis and pay jizya (where other commandments require them to feel subjugated and humiliated; this is discriminatory and against equality of religions and peoples, against Free Speech and Freedom of Conscience; in a word - evil). If they don't do these things then they are liable to be killed. How is that not evil?

Horseshit. Here is where you are chosing to ignore evidence that exactly support my point. Osama did not do what he did because he got out of bed on the wrong side. He did it because the Qur'an and hadiths and jurisprudence commanded him to do it. Osama and I have the same view of Islam. You do not. Similarly, Mohammed said and did the things he did because he invented Islam (contrary to ridiculous claims that Islam existed before Mohammed). Islam was the cause of them, and millions of others, doing these things. Now you can choose to act like a lawyer and choose to exclude evidence. However, you could act like a scientist and take a holistic view and look for evidence that counters your claim. As a trained scientist I look for evidence to counter the claim that Islam as an ideology is not evil and put that against the evidence that it is. Guess what, Islam is, one the whole, evil. On relative terms Islam is also far more evil than many other ideologies that are lesser evils.

And your defence?

I have provided you a link with a thorough analysis of the positions for and against 9:5. I can't help you read if you don't want to. The conclusion of the analysis is basically that it says what everything things it says - a commandment for aggression and subjugation of non-Muslims. Here, for your convenience I'll provide the link again
http://answering-islam.org/Silas/swordverse.htm

Now perhaps you don't think 9:5 is evil for a simple reason that I have not yet mention - you are a closet Islamist. I cannot discount that fact. An evil person would never see evil no matter how evil something was. A rational person would read the linked argument I've given, consider the numerous aspects (as the analysis does - it is balanced) and then come to the same conclusion what it says - slaughter and subjugate non-Muslims (which is an evil).

Now for all your talk you still have not a single skerrick of counter evidence for the supposition that Islam is not evil. All you have is a claim about some research and a statement that your Muslim friends are good people: which I don't doubt in the least, they are people after all, and most people are intrinsicly good by nature - it requires religion/ideology to make them do bad things against that nature.

However, we are not talking about people, we are talking about the dictates of an ideology.

Since you have thus far failed to grok a fundamental of the argument, that people and ideologies are different (even if they influence each other), the consider the following:
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Steven Weinberg [Physicist], quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999

Grok the point now? See how many Muslims can be good but that does not excuse the evil of the ideology of Islam itself? defending such an evil ideology necessarily makes one evil too. Don't be evil, be a force for Truth, Goodness and Compassion in this world. Oppose evil and do not tolerate the intolerant.

No, why you consider it not evil? Also, it is clear you know about the greater and lesser jihad. How do you think 9:5 is about greater jihad when the hadiths, history and jurisprudence all indicate the lesser jihad - the violent one. Hopefully you have also looked at the hadiths. How could one say that Mohammed was not evil when it is clear he was. He burnt down a mosque *with people inside it* because it wasn't him to decided on the construction. He slaughtered a tribe, killed its leader by kindling a fire on his chest, and then took the leader's wife for himself (that is, raped her on the day he murdered her husband). He *obliged* lying to promote his interests (completely against Christian or Judaic morality). He promoted killing of everyone that didn't follow his edicts (against the Christian message of tolerance). He promoted sexual immorality and polygamy (against Christian and Judiac commandments). To question Mohammed exacts a greater penalty under Sharia than to blaspheme against Allah Himself. This is all evil. I don't believe in the eschatology of an Anti-Christ, but it is pretty clear that if you were to invent a religion and ideology that was against Judiac and Christian morality then Islam is what you'd come up with. The Qur'an commands evil, the hadiths show that great evil was carried out, Al Azhar promote that evil as the will of Allah to this day. And you defend it and so morally disfunctional you cannot see the problem with a verse that clearly commands slaughter and subjugation of innocents. It is a shame your mind is so closed you cannot see the evil you promote - instead you try (and fail) with sophistry to deny the inexorable conclusion of all the evidence.

Sura 9:5 clearly calls for murder, subjugation and paying what is called jiza for innocent people - even if they do not choose to follow Mohammed. Where is you evidence to counter this? you have none!

JavaFX 2 is a nice evolution for those used to Swing (yes, yes, many don't like Swing, but you simply can't beat Swing for power and flexibility once you get some experience in it). It has a much nicer default styling than even Nimbus for Swing, and great built in aesthetic effects (hence the "FX") that mostly get switched on with a simple boolean property. JavaFX makes the same mistake as Swing in that there are no standard Calendar/Date controls, yet just about every application needs these. Fortunately you can use one of the third party controls, or even embed your existing Swing applications into your JavaFX app. That's pretty funky stuff.

Computing is more than just the Web. Javascript is ok for web stuff. Crap for rich clients with functionality that doesn't work well over the network, usually because the datasets are too big (eg. CAD, GIS, graphics/photography, simulations). There is still an ernomous space for rich client technologies like JavaFX, and JavaFX 2 looks really nice and has some great built in styles and effects. It's also pretty easy to program if you are used to Swing.

The entire chapter blows. But 9:5 has been used to justify the slaughter of hundreds of millions (with the Indians getting it pretty bad - which is why the Hindus have strong views on the outright lie that Islam is religion of peace). 9:5 is used as one of the justifications by Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Boko Haram, Abu Sayyaf etc for physical jihad, then we have the cultural jihad of the Muslim Brotherhood and OIC (that latter busy passing racist and anti-Free Speech resolutions in the UN and particularly the Human Rights Council that it dominates - they have perverted the UN from its original intent). All of this is understandable from Islamists. What makes it worse is the wannabe-dhimmi cultural relativists (mostly, but not exclusively) from the political Left that mindlessly repeat the taqiyya and demonize those who actually stand up for liberty (and poor defenceless girls) against the totalitarian and evil commandments of Islam and the devout adherents. So, please find me a verse that abrogates the commandment to do evil in 9:5 - you won't find it. Admit it, the ideology called Islam is evil.

Cool. To begin do you understand the principle of abrogration? This is critical.

Let us look at Sura 9. It has many evil ideas in it and is used daily to justify evil acts (eg. to a devout Muslim, jihad against unbelievers is legal and in fact mandatory; that's why what we call terrorism is not illegal under Islamic jurisprudence; they consider it "terrorism" when we defend ourselves from it). Note that there is no verse that abgrogates Sura 9 and Sura 9 abrogates all the other nice verses of the Qur'an (eg. the oft-quoted, "Let there be no compulsion is religion" is abrogated - it simply does not apply; some claim that this verse has not been abrogated but they are negating the rules about abrogation to do so. Sura 9 is among the last This is false. You can't just change the principles of Islam to suit your argument). My understanding of Sura 9 is the same as Osama bin Laden's and Quradhawi's and Qtub's and Al Azhar's. We agree it all means the same thing and abrogates the other verses. It is you that has a differing interpretation of the Qur'an than the four Sunni and single Shia school of jurisprudence. Here's an analysis of the verse, easy to digest and covers both the historicity and supporting evidence:
http://answering-islam.org/Silas/swordverse.htm

Can you counter this and still follow the Islamic rules of interpretation? no you can't. This verse stands. This verse is evil. Hence, Islam is evil - and this is why millions of people are oppressed and the Islamic schools of jurisprudence support this. Stop supporting evil. Even better, fight this evil through word and deed (at least stop hassling people on slashdot who do understand the Islamicists interpretation of Islam, which is the *mainstream* interpretation).

It would be nice if Islam was a religion of peace but it simply isn't. All the Islamic schools and a majority of Muslims (who, incidentally, live in South-East Asia, not the Middle East) agree with the interpretations I've given.

False. This is not about me or what I believe. I hate no-one. This is about what the Qur'an commands its followers to do. You are looking at things in the wrong way (personal attacks) rather than what the Qur'an does or does not command. The Qur'an is evil. There are nice versus in it but these are all "abrogated" - look up the term in an Islamic context if you don't know what that means. This is why my understanding of the Qur'an agrees with Osama bin Laden's, and Qaradhawi's, and Erdogan's and Al Azhar's. And that is why your assessment is wrong.

Oops, missed some links that might help enlighten you:
http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

Because it is evil! you haven't even read the Qur'an and hadiths. If you had then we wouldn't be having this conversation. The only reason you are defending the ideology of Islam is because you don't know anything about its core doctrines or the actions of the major players to subvert the liberties of the Free World, eg. OIC

So if you want to learn something how about you read a non-apologetic analysis of the Qur'an. eg. see the following objective analysis of the Qur'an that points out the scientific falsehoods, numerous contradictions, plagerism of Judaic and Christian texts (copies thart still gets all sorts of things wrong) Then you finally might start to understand what people are trying to say *based on a reading of the Qur'an* - not on your guesswork without actually reading it. You are defending Islam based on 'cultural Muslims' that don't actually follow its teachings. That's why those of us who actually have read the Qur'an think your position is clueless since it is not based on an understanding of the mainstream teachings (which are horrific to Western sensibilities). If you ever do read it you won't believe that other believe that crap (actually, most Muslims only follow what their imam tells them, and they pray in Arabic which they do not understand, and they never read the Qur'an, when they do they often become apostates because of the hideous teachings but can't declare openly because apostasy is punishable by death. Even Qarwadari [you know who he is, right?] admitted a few weeks ago that with the death penalty for apostasy Islam would have died out a millenia ago - many Muslims are either cultural (Muslims in name only) or are secretly apostates but live under continual fear of discovery. Why you would defend this evilness is beyond me. Perhaps you should start reading objective analyses of Islam and its historical implications around the world (eg. 270 million people killed because Sura 9:5 and others commanded it).

So yeah, when I tell Muslims their religion is evil it is *because I know what I'm talking about*. Just like all the counter-jihadis. We're not racist as you suppose. We're pointing out to Muslims that have never read the Qur'an and are being lied to by their imams what the Qur'an really says. We're also trying to stop the "honor" killings and female genitial mutilation that cultural artifacts but imposed as religious obligations for followers (again with the threat of the consequences of apostasy for those that don't submit to the commandments of the imams).

So yeah, I feel it's a good thing to tell non-Muslims the truth about Islam. I try to explain to Muslims too if they have open minds (very hard to deprogramme many of them, until they are ready). Their leaders won't do it (they're far far worse than the Christian clergy for hypocracy and distorting reality to suit their ends - horrific slanders about the Jews). The Liberal Left won't do it (since they have common cause with the Islamists to smash the West and install their own systems of control). The media won't do it (since the liberal arts institutions journalists emanate from are left-leaning so they become cultural relativists too afraid to discern good from clear evil). Our political elites won't do it - they lack the courage to stand up for any principals (rightly or wrongly).

So no, I don't hate Muslims -- they are bigger victims than we are. I hate Islam not because I don't understand it, but because I've examined it closely and found it to insanely evil. In fact the preachments and hadiths (acts of Mohammed) are scarely to be believed - which is why someone like you is so skeptical of the claims we make. It turns out what we say is true because it is what is written in the religious documents of the Qur'an and hadiths. This insanity and indoctrinated hatred is what the Free World and Israel are fighting against. You don't have to believe me, but it is the reality of the current world.

I'm not asking you believe me. But if you have an open mind and desire justice and liberty for all people then perhaps you'll listen and believe an ex-Muslim like Wafa Sultan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir_JNPn_GNM
Please Google any of her other videos to learn the truth of what it means to be a Muslim in a Muslim majority country (not a Muslim in the West where what remains of our humanist principles still moderate the growing Islamist actions). You can also check out the testimonies of ex-Muslims at wikiislam, http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/People_Who_Left_Islam

If you loved your Muslim friends you'd learn the truth about Islam yourself (wikiislam is widely acknowledged as an unbiased source in a sea of taqiyya and right-wing hysteria). You then might try and ask your friends questions that got them thinking about what they really know about Islam - and how the insanity and evilness of its teachings and examples apply in the 21st Century. Islam intends to take the world back to the morality of the 7th Century - but force if necessary (as in, ignorant, superstitious, misogynistic barbarism). What moral person who understands the truth about Islam (which is simple really; it is an inhumane, totalitarian, theocratic political ideology) would not speak out? Are you moral? will you speak out about Islam once you learn about it's *mainstream* interpretation that is violent and evil? Important note: all four Sunni schools and the Shia school agree on the horrible bits; Al Qaeda are not an extremist view as the media often lied to you; they are *devout* Muslims following the *mainstream* interpretation; but an 'expert' on Islam like you already knew that right? if you didn't know that (or don't know enough Islamic scripture to try and refute that assertion), then you have some homework to do, yes?

I hope you discover the truth one day - then you have a chance to do real good. Until then, you are a "useful idiot" for the Islamicist agenda. Please do better than that.

Whatevz. You keep creating and knocking down false strawmen of your own making. Hopefully one day you'll wake up to the fact you are defending totalitarian tyrrany - since no one was worried about your nice cultural Muslim friends the defence of Islamists is the only result of your apologistics.

Man, you're the loon. No matter how one tries to explain oneself you will stick with your initial deluded and inaccurate position.

Don't be an idiot. There is nothing wrong with *respectfully* calling someone of African descent a "black" if they do it themselves. Why deny reality - and all races certainly refer to other races with such terms. Do you feel that statements are only racist when Europeans make them? then who is the racist? who sees the World through racist lenses? you do, because you are racist although you think you are not. What actually matters is the intent - whether you are intending to insult or not. Only a racist would think that it is ok for them to say things but others may not (you are presuming I'm a white). Only a fool denies the reality that some people are pale and some not so.

Rubbish. This is much closer to "Hate National Socialism, love the Germans". Islam is an ideology, very much akin to National Socialism in many ways. The statement you made shows you are a cultural relativist that lacks discernment. The "sin" of Islam is not "coveting your neighbor" or even the commandments to commit taqiyya. It is the shooting of little girls that want education - because *mainstream* Islamists follow Mohammeds words about women being "easily confused" and don't agree with female education - sure not every Muslim feels this way (especially not 'cultural Muslims' that are not even considered Muslims by the Islamists or Qur'an; they are apostates) but when hundreds of millions do then one cannot deny the cause as being Islamic doctrine). The "sins" of Islam include commandments for every able bodied man to make war on unbelievers, permit rape and oppression of women (due to the laws about witnesses to rape), permit killing of virgins for adultery, permit disgusting child marriages (because Mohammed did this), prevent adoption (because Mohammed forced his adopted son's wife to marry him), promote inequality (where non-Muslims are second class citizens to be humiliated as they pay jizya), deny science (after Al Ghazali there is no science, and no point studying science, everything is only subject to Allah's will), then there is the commandment and subsequent and continuing campaign for 1400 years to subdue the entire World to make it submit to Islam, then there is the polygamy and maltreatment of women, then there is the utter hypocrisy about homosexuals (where they condemn them in public but in private the Muslim men with no access to women take their sexual urges out on each other, and children). Only an immoral person would defend this. Unfortunately cultural relativism strips one of reason, discernment and morality. It is very sad that people defend the evil ideology of Islam, people like you.

Once again I will say it. I have no problem with 'cultural' Muslims. The proponents of liberty only have a problem with Islamists and the evil ideology of Islam. Your friends are not the problem, Islam is. So stop being a muppet and defending the indefensible - no one wants to hurt your friends. We only want to defend liberty in the West that is being eroded by the Islamists (eg. UN HRC Resolution 16/18) and their amoral cultural relativist defenders, like yourself.

It is not amoral to discriminate against evil ideologies (in fact it is very moral). So get a clue, eh?

Shows how much you don't know. I have Shia Muslim friends. You see, you lack understanding again and misattribute a caricature of some right wing guy to me. Both false. I have zero problem with Muslims (and hate no-one, so stop making shit up). I have a problem with an evil ideology called Islam (whose main victims are, in fact, Muslims). Most Muslims are cool precisely because they are not pious and do not follow the dictates of Islam. I hope you can comprehend that. The Muslims that are devout and strictly follow Islam are the ones to be concerned about. They believe they are on a mission from Allah and can do as they wish to anyone. National borders, sovereignty, Western laws, natural justice mean nothing to these guys. One is right to be concerned with the rise of such 'Islamists' and warn others about them (since most people, including you apparently, are ignorant of the difference between Muslims and Islamists, and that ideology of Islam is the root of much of the strife in the World today). Does that help you get it now? Or do you still want to project your incorrect mental model onto me and the World?

You really are a muppet that is completely ignorant of what is going on in the World. Then, despite your ignorance, you insult those that do know more than you. Here is General William G Boykin who has a strong supposition that Ambassador Stevens was running guns through Benghazi. Here's an interview with Boykins:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33698.htm
Note that Boykins was *commander* of U.S. Special Forces Command, the deputy under secretary of defense for intelligence and a CIA staffer. The interview was conducted by a reputable agency, CNS News.

You apoplectic rage was misplaced. Admit it, you have a poor grasp on what is going on. You have the temerity to throw insults at me when you don't even know the facts. I would be ashamed if I was you. Sometimes people know more about a subject than you do. So I would suggest chillin' and opening your mind to what people are trying to tell you. Also, a trivial search on Google will reveal a wealth of facts (including the video link I've posted). Isn't it better to do you research rather than making an (incorrect) assumption as you did.

It is always ok to be wrong. It is arrogance to ignore facts presented to you just because they don't fit with your (incorrect) current worldview. If you open your closed mind and use the Scientific Method you would greatly profit from the diverse points of view on Slashdot.

Stop assuming you already know everything.
Do. your. research.

You really have no rebuttal do you. You have no proof, dismiss factual data and cannot rationally counter the points I made and data I linked. So you come up with the dhimmi-esque statements. You are the dhimmi but are too ignorant to see this. If you have verifiable counter points I'm all ears - but you don't, you lack any sophistry so resort to idiotic pop-psychology arguments. There is no point debating you - you simply won't consider facts presented to you - and instead come up with a bullshit deflection that projects your own jeans-creaming fantasy. Lame.