I never said micro kernel (as a general concept) isn't useful to *some* use cases; I was showing that much like the OP's point, the possibility of recovery may be completely meaningless in many use cases.

- Gilboa

No offense but this argument remains the following argument from a movie called Idiocracy:
"But Brawndo got what plants crave, its got electrolytes"
"What are electrolytes? Do you even now?
"Its what they use to make Brawndo!"
"Why they use it to make Brawndo?"
"Because Brawndo has electrolytes..."

Let leave it at that...

- Gilboa

In short, you more or less ignored my example and went with yet another theoretical explanation why micro-kernel is the kernel design to rule them all.
In reality, you didn't really try to debunk my previous claims: E.g. Sure, you can put the DPI + network cards in the same "protection domain" (much like in, err, a monolithic kernel...), but this more-or-less means that any crash, in any of the above-mentioned components (Network drivers, DPI, memory management) will result in what essentially amounts to a full reboot - let alone the fact that I've yet to see a well-marshaled IPC that's capable of pushing GBps of data without making the CPU bleed from the ears.

In essence, you post doesn't include any evidence that a micro-kernel will make my DPI software [i]understandable[/i], [i]well structured[/i] - let alone [i]recoverable[/i]. (See my previous post)

Beyond that, "understandable"? "well structured"? "reusable"? what exactly does it has to do with monolithic vs. micro-kernel? A monolithic kernel can be "well structured" and "well documented" and use a lot of "reusable components" while a micro-kernel can be badly structured w/ zero documentation and have the same functionality implemented differently in 1,000 different modules.

- Gilboa

(I'm a in-kernel DPI developer by trade; I'll stick to what I know)
Lets assume you need to develop an application firewall that needs to handle multiple 10GbE links.

In Linux, life is simple, you stuff a huge blob of code into the kernel, replacing the normal stack; sure, development is (more) difficult and debugging can exponentially increase your gray hair count by a number of factors, but it in the end, you get an skb, you read it, modify it, and dump it (or not) to the target network device. End-of-story.

In the Micro-kernel world, things are far more complicated.
As you put the network device and DPI software in separate user-spaces, you'll require an in-kernel mmap-like (?) message passing system in-order to connect the network driver(s) to the DPI software (and back) w/ complex memory management and device ring buffer control.
Lets assume that this interface has near-zero-performance penalty (and I *greatly* doubt it) and concentrate on the chances of recovering from a crash:
If a network device dies, it may or may not leave the *hardware* in recoverable state. Lets write this as 50% chance of recovery.
If the DPI software dies, you lose all the session and node information, which more-or-less amounts to a full reboot. Lets write this as 0% of chance recovery.
Now, if the fancy mmap interface dies... Well, you got the idea.

In short, at best, you have a better chance of recovering from a network device crash, which, in-case you ever looked at Ethernet driver code, is a ***very*** rare event - all of it at the price of a huge performance hit and packet flow that more-or-less impossible to debug.

- Gilboa

Gaah?
1. Linux has a *full* "generic" 802.11 stack.
2. Licensing issues will most likely prevent you from copying "BSD" parts into Linux, unless the original author allowed for dual GPL / BSD licensing (and I doubt it)

Could you please list a number of card that have been ported from FreeBSD w/ parts of the FreeBSD's 802.11 stack?

- Gilboa

While I do agree that AMD is *well* behind Intel's latest and greatest in the 1P / desktop world, I fail to see how you could make such bold statement, unless you have had the chance to compare and AMD 4S machine to Intel 4S machine (say, Opteron 62xx based HP DL585G7 vs. Xeon 75xx/E7 based HP DL580G7).

In my experience (and I venture and guess that is just as good as yours, if not better) the picture is far from being black-and-white and greatly (!!!) depends on the application that is being tested. The pictures becomes even more complex, once you factor in the Xeon E7 excessive price. ... So I ask again, have you had any experience in benchmarking the Opteron 6200 or are you simply making things up as you go along?

- Gilboa

Let me start by pointing out that "nationalization of certain industries" goes against one of the basic principles of freedom (One that was actually acknowledged as such by the U.N.) - the right ownership of private property. I should also point out (at the risk of triggering the Godwin's Law) that the man-kind's worst totalitarian regimes (e.g. Nazi Germany, Lenin/Stalin's USSR) started by the nationalization of industry, land and private assets in the name of the "common people" as a first step in their attempt to re-model the society to match their perfect image (does who did not match their view ended up as slave laborers in Siberia or executed in Auschwitz)
The reason I took the time to point this out is simple: You *assume* that your views are moderate and that are shared by 99% of the western world working class, while in-fact, you'd be amazed at how many people will consider these views to be radical and dangerous - and I'm not talking extremely wealthy people who "rather maintain the current order".

Beyond that. your attempt to compare the brokenness of the Democratic system (and I don't doubt this fact) to the (very-short) life of a woman that somehow got blamed for infidelity or blamed for tarnishing the family-honor in Iran, Afghanistan or in the Gaza strip (let alone basic human rights, religious rights, etc) is amazing at best. I could only wonder how you view WWII and/or the cold war. (though I can easily guess).

- Gilboa

I'm *perfectly* happy with not giving *you* the power to "effect social change"; something tells me that what-you-consider-social-chance is what I consider anarchy...

- Gilboa

I must admit that -my- experience (anecdotal, just as yours) is the exact opposite of what you are seeing.
I -never- had history/bookmark/etc corruption due to version upgrade on Firefox, while my experience with Chrome is the exact opposite (Addons no longer working; crashes; etc). I would seriously consider switching distribution to one that's **apparently** more competent in packaging Firefox...
As for the part about having the "new version" tab, I can't really get the point: would it make it any easier on your eyes if the version was 3.8 instead of 6? (Though I would agree that Firefox devs should do their best to help addons developers write version-free addons)

Much like the Linux kernel version issue, users seem to make far, far, far, far, far (x10000) too much fuss about mere version numbers.
Version numbers are meaningless, get over it! (Did Microsoft really release 1996 NT versions/builds between NT 4.0 and Windows 2000?)

- Gilboa

[RANT="Sorry for being blunt, but the continuous stream of stupid Firefox/Linux kernel version jokes/rants is *really* getting on my nerves".]
As far as I remember, chrome uses a somewhat shorter six week [1] release schedule. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
Now given the fact the in one of you previous post, you said: "... I'd still be fine with it, but I'd probably be migrating entirely to Chrome soon" [2], I'm left to wonder if you plan to make the same tedious jokes about chrome...[/RANT]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome#Release_channels_and_updates
[2] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2273874&cid=36584518 (Actually took the time to look it up)

Enterprise Linux (E.g. RHEL, SLES, etc) maintain obsolete releases by back porting security fixes.
This is what they do best, and this is the reason why using RHEL and SLES with no support contract should be avoided.

I would suggest you take the time to do some research before posting!

- Gilboa

Bullshit.

When you manage 80K desktops (or 100s of servers, something that I have experience in), you buy a site license for RHEL/SLES/etc, keeping 99.9% of the distribution intact changing only packages that you really-really-really-really-really need changed;
You then keep using the old really until you really-really-really-really have to upgrade.
I doubt that you grasp how many of my clients/colleges still use RHEL 4.x (!!!!) for both application desktops and servers...

By the time RHEL and SLES release 3.x based distributions, Linux 3.0 will be a memory of the past.
(I would imagine that RHEL 6.2 will include a new version of FF as "technology preview" but will keep FF 3.6.x as the main browser)

- Gilboa

.

I can only speak from my own personal experience, but at least in my case, ESD and Arts never really worked when trying combined non-native applications (E.g. KDE under GNOME or vice versa, let alone running OSS games/flash/etc under both) and as for JACK, well, tried it a couple of times, never really worked for me, dropped it.
Pulse marked the first time both me and the people around me can reliably mix multiple streams from different applications while getting expected results. (E.g. Mixing Amarok, skype, qemu running Windows VM w/ audio and a native Linux games that uses OSS)

Granted, both me and my friends/coworkers use Fedora which doubles as PulseAudio test-bed (which may be the reason to better out-of-the-box experience), but at least for us, PA simply, err, works?

I fully agree, even though I understand Lennart's reasons for doing it (AKA KDE 4.0 release limbo).
Heck, I used to automatically remove PA as the first post install phase up-until Fedora ~8-9.

As I see it, PA had a rotten beginning and has improved tremendously since then but much like KDE 4.x, it still suffers from the bad reputation that trails it since the initial troubled release.

The irony is that a lot of people here praise Alsa... anyone that's old enough to remember the first years after the move from OSS to Alsa would easily remember that Alsa attracted more-or-less the same hateful reaction that PA now draws. ... One can only wonder what will be said on GNOME 3 and KDE 4 when GNOME 4 and KDE 5.0 will be released :)

- Gilboa

Actually, I -really- like Pulse.
For the first time since, err, RedHat 5?, I can actually hear music on amarok, watch a movie on youtube and get a call using skype without blocking the system.
I can dynamically reduce the volume of streams that I don't like (E.g. flash) without dropping the volume on other applications (E.g. amarok) or dynamically move streams from one device to another (E.g. Switch music stream from on-board / headphone to SB Audigy / 5.1).
I could never achieve that, not with Alsa (Linux w/ or w/o dmix) nor with OSS (under both Linux and FreeBSD).

Now, ***you*** may not appreciate or need it, but calling a very stable (at least on Fedora) a useless piece of shit just because ***you*** don't use it, should have earned you a -5 troll.

- Gilboa

You do realize that my previous comments, which included large amounts of factual information were largely ignored by you, right?
Let me point a few:
1, By international law, the so-called occupied territories are not occupied at all.
2. Most Palestinians live under PA and Hamas control. Both of which violate basic human rights on a daily basis; a fact that's completely ignored by so-called human right groups.
2a. Unlike their PA and HAMAS controlled brothers, Israeli-Arab (Read: Palestinians who have Israeli citizenship) enjoy full civil rights (including the right to vote and be elected)
3. In a series of peace threats Israel redraw on a number of occasions from so-called occupied territories, treaties that were largely violated by the Palestinian side. (E.g. Stopping state sanctioned incitement for terror acts in PA controlled media and schools; Stopping state sanctioned terror acts; Changing the Palestinian treaty to acknowledge Israel's right to exist [...], etc)
4. Each time Israel withdraw from so-called occupied territories (with or w/o a peace treaty) the Palestinians immediately launched a wave of terror in return which usually targeted targets (like my Supermarket...).
5. In most cases, the attacks originated from Palestinian Civilian centers, relaying on Israel's reluctance to attack civilian targets. ... and I can continue.

Now, would I think different if I was sitting in Gaza right now? Most likely I would. Should it matter, as -my- house is being attacked by rockets fired from so-called Palestinian territories and when -my- Supermarket was blown by a suicide bomber killing and injuring dozens of civilians? Not really. ...Neither would you.

The only thing standing between us and peace is Arab recognition of the Jewish people's right to its own independent state. As the Palestinian still bluntly [1] refuse [2] to accept [3] our presence [4] here [5], peace could not be further away.

Last question? Might I inquire where do you live?

- Gilboa
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni
[2] 10 point plan (which objects to SC 242), Official PA page in the UN site: http://www.un.int/wcm/content/site/palestine/pid/12354
[3] http://israelinsider.net/profiles/blogs/abbas-rejects-jewish-state
[4] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPsOe9yRqTU
[5] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GueURvTbIss&feature=related