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Comment Re:WTF (Score -1) 924

"screen" will work exactly as it always have, even with the new defaults.

Except that the way you describe is not the way that screen has always worked. Instead of the straightforward invocation screen on the command line, now it has to be prefixed with all kinds of systemd-specific stuff that wasn't there before.

Its functionality is the same. Really, just use an alias if typing is hard for you to do. Or even better. Start screen automatically at boot by running it as a .service. See the Arch wiki for how.

Comment Re:To be quite honest... (Score -1) 924

Fear not, people of Slashdot, because there is an option to maintain background processes, even after user disconnection.

But this option is not "on" by default. So, yeah, screen and tmux all of a sudden become useless, unless you fiddle with the knobs.

You are of course wrong. Probably because you never read the technical documentation on this but just relied on wrong hearsay.

Here is the relevant man-page:
https://www.freedesktop.org/so...

As you can see, even with the new defaults, it is trivial to make GNU screen or tmux keep running, even after logout, even with the new defaults settings. You just start them with "systemd-run --user --scope screen" and everything works as before (just a little better).

Comment Re:I assumed this was already a default (Score -1, Flamebait) 924

A multi-user system shouldn't allow unpriviledged users from consuming resources indefinitely

Crippling the service is not a good way to protect the server.

There are other ways to protect system from users to consume all the resources. Admin can and should setup the server the way it is protected from incompetent/malicious users.

If you make this protection by killing processes after logout, you are actually removing functionality from it. And for me, it's a step backward.

A good thing that you are misunderstanding what is happening then; Even with the new settings, no user process will be killed on exit/logout if the user have told the system not to.
Instead of starting the program with with "nohup" you start it with "systemd-run" instead.
This is how you start "screen" so it will survive logout: "systemd-run --user --scope".

Comment Re:misleading title as usual (Score 1, Insightful) 924

That systemd is able to kill the remaining processes on logout is not an issue. What is an issue is that it does this _by default_.

Why is that an issue? Even the old SysVinit distros did the same (albeit not very well). If you are thinking about the user wanting to run certain processes after logout, then that isn't a problem at all; just tell the system so. You do that by starting the process in its own scope with "systemd-run --user --scope `program` ". It really is that simple.

Comment Re:WTF (Score -1, Troll) 924

So, "screen" has always been a good way to ensure that processes don't get killed randomly by disconnections, logout or X crashes.
Then comes systemd and kills all your processes at logout, even when launched with screen.

"screen" will work exactly as it always have, even with the new defaults. You just start screen, either as a proper .service or as a transient service in its own scope using : "systemd-run --user -scope screen". This will make screen run in its own scope so it won't be destroyed when the users scope is purged at logout.

All programs started from "screen" will run in this scope and will therefore remain after logout too.

Use "systemd-cgls" to get an overview of where the new scope is attached.

The man-page is good to read if you want to understand how things work : https://www.freedesktop.org/so...

In short, don't go on hearsay but read the technical documentation.

Comment Re:Bullshit conclusion (Score 1) 386

The conclusion is bullshit. Free will isn't an illusion and life isn't a game that plays us. (Anyone catch the reference there?)

On short time scales, reaction time is probably faster if the brain does some processing in advance.

Yes, you are absolutely right about this. The brain/nervous system "pre-charge" before an expected performance. That pre-charge shows up on the instruments before the action is taken, but isn't a sign that free will doesn't exist, just that the brain prepares for a decision or action. This has been known for decades.

Comment Re:systemd works perfect on 1020 node Cray XE6 (Score 0) 293

What a joke, "veteran unix administrators",

The people behind Devuan aren't "veteran unix administrators". They are a bunch of unemployed or under-employed Italians. They also run "https://www.dyne.org/" . Think beggars with a GPL sign in hand; wherever the Dyne/Devuan folks are, the "please donate" sign is near by.

Comment Re:What is wrong with systemd? (Score 1) 293

The first time your system goes down hard and you need to login to the systemd emergency console, run the command to review the binary-logs, and then set the system default to boot again, you'll hate systemd too.

The command to review the logs is called "journalctl" and it works perfectly from the emergency console or initrd. That means you have access to powerful log querying with systemd, even in a limited environment. So full service management and log querying even from the emergency console with systemd, which is much better than SysVinit/OpenRC based systems that just give you "cat" and a neutered version of "vi" to work with and often doesn't even have syslog in the initrd, but rely on the binary logging in the kernel ring-buffer (dmesg).

If it's a remote system, you won't even know it's systemd that you hate.

It is trivial to make systemd launch Dropbear (SSH) from initrd if the rootfs doesn't mount: that way you can ssh into the remote system to deal with the problem.

If that system is your only internet access, you may not know what you have to type to bring it back to life (it's not informative).

systemd is one of the best documented projects I know; there are man pages for everything and reverse indexes for every CLI option or config file option. Try "man systemd.index" and "man systemd.directives". Superior in every way to SysVinit etc. based systems by a long shot.

Really, systemd is the best thing that happened to Linux since package-management.

Comment Re:SystemD = Bolsheviks (Score 1, Insightful) 293

The problem with systemd is that it doesn't want to coexist peacefully. It wants to own everything. Not just resource control, but logging and other things as well.

I don't think you have actually studied the design of systemd; it is exactly designed to co-exist peacefully with other components. It is a major reason why it was adopted so successfully and fast:
You can use any syslog daemon like Rsyslog or syslog-ng with systemd's journald.
You can use you own homegrown resource manager using cgroups instead of systemd's. systemd uses cgroups for two things; tracking and grouping services, and resource control. But the latter use is entirely optional and you can compile systemd without such support.

Really, people are so misinformed about systemd. It is like they never even read a systemd man-page, but just uncritically iterate whatever some random blog guy once wrote.

Comment Re:SystemD = Bolsheviks (Score 1) 293

Systemd scripts and other init scripts can coexist peacefully in the same package, so I don't see why maintainers can't work together. If there is a willing team of people who want to maintain these scripts I see no reason why the Debian team should stop them.

The problem isn't the init-scripts, the problem is supporting two different init-systems at the same time, including replicating and fixing bugs.
That is why Devuan is removing systemd from their Debian fork, even though Debian Jessie at present can support both SysVinit and systemd.

Comment Re: In Other News: People Hate Change (Score 1) 293

Unless you can convert your binary to a stream of text, forget grepping it or doing any of the transformations everybody with a modicum of experience of *nix is very familiar with.

Well there are many ways to do that with systemd, including various language bindings to eg. Python, allowing you to directly query the journal.

It would also be trivial to tech "grep" etc to learn to read the journal, just like "zgrep" can read binary files. There is no point to that however, since the concept of piping works so well: All the standard text tools like grep, awk, tee, wc etc. works with the systemd journal through piping.

On the commandline, binary files are going to require a custom built interface for that specific type of binary. That custom built interface needs to have all the features you want for easy searching etc.: no regular expression search built-in? Then forget about it. If you're lucky, there is another tool that understands your specific binary flavour which may or may not do what you want.

No, that is wrong. Through the Unix concept of piping all standard text tools work with systemd's binary journal, so you can use any grep regex on the journal.

A text file does not have those problems because it can be interpreted using a standard that is ridiculously simple, old as dirt and supported by and ingrained in pretty much fucking everything that displays letters.

I'm not saying a binary format cannot have its advantages (databases obviously have many), but to dismiss the difference between binaries and text files with 'you still need a tool to read them' is absolutely fucking idiotic.

I think you make text files much simpler than they really are; multi-language files, UTF vs ASCII, Unicode and even simple CRLF vs LF can make dealing with text files a major hassle.
People are often surprised by the Posix definition of a text file (which causes eg. grep to treat "text" files as binary data.

Anyway, having worked with systemd's journal for quite some time I can only say it is major benefit to use and that practically all concerns I have seen raised against it seems to be based on wrong and often contrived speculations.
Stuff like "journalctl -b -1 -p err" and "journalctl --since -10m" is just great. And I really like that even log-entries can be tab-completed, so you just type "jou(tab) -u sma(tab)" to type "journalctl -u smartd.service"

Comment Re: In Other News: People Hate Change (Score 1) 293

> Maybe. But my initial reaction was "binary logs?!? on a *nix system? WTF?"

Besides the POSIX utmp and wtmp binary logs, there is also the Kernel ring-buffer on Linux; Without the ring-buffer collecting and storing messages from /dev/ksmg there would be no boot-logs at all, or even any logs until the rootfs has been mounted and the syslog daemon started.
systemd's "journald" service is the Kernel ring-buffer equivalent, and "dmesg" similar to systemd's "journalctl" tool; they both extract binary log-info and convert it to text.

Also, consider that log collectors and analyzers like "Splunk" etc all does exactly the same thing as "journald", namely hammering the log-info into a binary structure with an index.
systemd's format is Free software with a stable and documented API and format (so eg. Rsyslog can read it natively), while many other log-analyzers are close source with proprietary formats.

If you remember when Rsyslog was started a decade ago, you should remember that one of its main goals was to overcome the many inherent limitations of flat file text logs; it's solution was to place the logs in a DB (binary format).
systemd's binary format is much, much simpler than running a full DB, while getting access to many of the advantages of having an indexed log.

Comment Re:IPv6 SLAAC without EUI-64 (Score 1) 112

dhcpcd (which also works on BSD) has had support for this (RFC7217) for almost a year now, but it's now news when NetworkManager (Linux only) get's it?

RFC7217 has been in NM for some time. The news regarding this is that it now is upstream default for IPv6 connections when using NM 1.2.

The other feature, that is the real news, is a kind of MAC randomization feature that uses the real HW MAC for connection, but "fake" MAC's for scanning for AP's. This is also default now.

NM can also randomize and spoof MAC's like the decade old GNU MAC Changer, but it isn't default since that may give problems with connecting to certain devices and services.

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