The fundamental failure in this case is the failure of approaching the market from investor perspective, and this fundamental failure is incentivized by free money, just like the insane CEO pays and non-existing dividend yields.

The very reason WHY it is at all possible to trade stocks at these insane speeds is this: people do not see their purchases as investment, they are not looking for or getting dividend yields.

People who are purchasing stocks are not looking for an investment opportunity in the underlying business, they are looking for a way to flip the stock quickly and to make the money.

Automation of this process is INEVITABLE as all things that are repeatable and can be automated with some investment capital in order to make the process more efficient will be done. Investments will be made. Automation will remove the slow element in the equation - the human trader.

The fact that the stock market is now not providing investment opportunities, but is instead used to gamble in the hopes that the stock will move in the right direction (up or down), is based on the available amount of free (interest free) money that is provided into the financial system by the Federal reserve bank.

At this point that Bernanke promised to keep interest rates at 0%, expect more and more automation to happen in HFT, it is an inevitable result of this moral hazard.

The fact that the money is being debased quickly, and the so called "economists" - the modern era witch doctors of the kings are promoting this debasement and the fact that the majority of people are buying into this idea, that money needs to be destroyed and stocks are there for gambling and not for investment (not for business participation and not for dividends to be paid), this fact will also provide more space for this further perverse action.

The free money create incentives to gamble, destroy incentives to save, and people (here, on /.) are celebrating this very fact, while amusingly at the same time being perplexed and angered by the wider and wider spread of HFT.

In order to fix this problem, what should be done is the Federal reserve bank must be prevented from further debasement of currency. The market must be allowed to set the standards on what money is. The interest rates must be set by market pressures, not by government decree. Government must stop issuing debt that it cannot repay and it must liquidate the debt that exists.

Only this will allow the currency to become valuable enough to be saved, it will create competition pressure between sovereign debt and the corporate bonds, this will force the companies to pay an actual INTEREST on the bonds - DIVIDENDS, which will in turn lower the pay that the CEOs and other management gets out of profits and simultaneously this will allow the markets to become investment vehicles again, instead of being giant casinos.

---

Obviously, this again, will not be a popular or an understood opinion here, but it must be said.

On this very site, there are so many troll moderators, I lost count of them.

Here are just a couple of latest examples of this phenomena taking place.

As you can see, there is a problem with this type of moderation, where a legitimate opinion is moderated as a troll but at the same time a comment like that gets various other moderations, like "insightful" or "interesting" or just "underrated".

What is the problem with this picture, what do we really have here? What we have here is a disagreement, which is then expressed by some of the moderators (who do appear to have more moderation points) by moderating comments they just don't like as 'troll', while others find these comments to be at least interesting to respond to and to attempt to moderate up to generate more discussion.

Of-course this is just part of the previous problem that rears its ugly head in this neck of woods.

If I were an operator on this site and I were legitimately interested in fixing this problem (if, of-course I saw it as a problem), I would have fixed it quickly and meaningfully.

1. Allow anybody to moderate any and all articles with a maximum of 2 moderation points. You have to be a signed in user, not just an AC.

2. If a comment receives multiple up and down votes, lock that comment at some average (like 3) and don't let anybody moderate it further. Obviously it's a controversial enough comment to be at least interesting.

3. Get rid of the super moderators - this is pure evil nonsense, they are clearly abusing their power and it's obvious immediately in cases a comment is moderated up and it's possible to read the moderation type (insightful or interesting or underrated) and all of a sudden it is moderated down, but there is no history of how it was moderated down.

4. Allow moderator point exchange. Why not treat moderation points as commodity, have a moderation point exchange, were some users exchange points with others and they could even establish a mini-economy based on this idea.

It's an idea, whether it's worth bothering or not, at least it's looking at the existing problem.

Money - store of value, unit of account and medium of exchange. It's always under attack by hacks that are called 'economists' by those who don't know better. Of-course here is the story and here is again my comment, again at 'troll' moderation for the reason that certain people disagree.

Of-course as always it is interesting to see that the people who are disagreeing are the ones that say they are for "the poor" on one hand, while being pro-Keynesian destruction of money and thus causing inflation and prices rising on the other.

---

Why do people care about what Krugman has to say? This is the guy who believes that destruction of wealth is the necessary stimulus that USA needs and that it would be great to have destruction even if by wars or natural disasters?

He believes there is a real difference in economics between 'micro' and 'macro', which is same nonsense as when the same differences are applied to evolution, so if you ask him - would he like his own house to be destroyed by a tsunami/tornado/flood, I am sure he'd answer - no. It's not good when done to a particular person. Only entire nations need to suffer altogether in wars and alien invasions.

This is guy is a Keynesian charlattan, he has nothing to do with economics, but his type of 'economics' is pervasive, because the politicians love these guys. The politicians invite these sort of 'economists' to be in the white house to help with policy, and this is the kind of help you get, while the universities then decide to have only these kinds of 'economists' propagate this nonsense further, so you end up with only Keynesian ideology in higher education. Thus all the underlying problems in the economy - because politicians use this charlatanism to give excuse for their only real agenda - stealing your money.

OK, from TFA:

- that's the problem. The entire fiscal policy of USA destroys the value of savings by inflation and this is what destroys the economy.

- RELATIVE TO WHAT, YOU DUMBO? Relative to other flawed currencies? :) Well, not to Swiss Franc. Not to Canadian dollar. Not to NZ dollar. Not to Australian Dollar.

Besides, 2008-2009 is a TERRIBLE time to compare, as too many people completely misunderstood what was happening in the real economy and plunged head first into the dollars, which was the absolute wrong thing to do (and it is wrong thing to do now too, but now people understand it. Look at kitco.com) Too many people actually think that Keynesian charlatanism is economics, so they fall in this trap of following completely wrong ideas.

Anyway, yes, it's deflation of assets in real terms, so in terms of gold/silver assets are falling in price. It's cheapest gasoline ever today - under 10cents for a gallon, but those are silver cents.

But the inflation is in dollars, which is why real money is going up.

- GOOD. Good for those who hold Bitcoins. Bad for those who hold dollars.

- This Keynesian wants you to be poor, do you understand that?

He wants you to pay 3.50USD for your gas, and BTW, he doesn't think it's high enough. They have a target to make it much higher. But he doesn't want you to pay 10 cents for that gallon.

- Except there was NEVER a case of depression that had anything to do with the gold standard. Yes, bank runs happened, resource mis-allocations happened in some cases, but it took a fiat system to create case for real depression.

Depression is destruction of economy, it happens due to the business cycle that the federal reserve creates. Krugman is not an economist, and the Nobel Prize committee should be ashamed of itself for giving out prizes in Economics constantly to guys like him (and Obama, for peace?)

There was just a story on /. based on an article from Harvard Business Review by Umair Haque, titled "Was Marx Right?". This is a point by point review of that article.

Obviously the author is not paying attention to what happened 40-45 years ago, namely defaulting on the promise to pay real money for federal reserve notes, destruction of currency, inflation, growth of government based on destruction of currency, capital flight and creation of more monopolies, due to increase of gov't size and thus regulations, which leads to creation of super-incomes for those on the very top of the ladder, but destroys competition and subsequently destroys the economy. Of-course wages are stagnant in this depression, which is combined with inflation.

This has nothing to do with anything Marx was talking about.

- ?? :) OVERPRODUCTION? ::))))) IN USA?? :)))

OK, this is just ridiculous on its face. USA has 53 Billion/Month trade deficit. USA has overconsumption based on inflation and debt but it has no over-production at all. Once China stops subsidizing the US consumer, US consumer will stop consuming, as there will be nothing to consume.

for they wouldn't have the means to purchase or invest in enough goods to keep the economy humming.

- In 19 century USA, the production was growing immensely, while consumption was also growing even though there was actual deflation (contraction of money supply due to gold being money).

- there is NOTHING controversial about this. This is true on its face value and if taken separately out of any context. As economy stagnates, profits must fall.

Of-course profits ARE falling, as all of the inflation is wiping out any real profits, and whatever profits are made by super-banks etc., that's all government propped up via further currency destruction.

- it's called specialization, which eventually is replaced with automation. Free market capitalism solves this type of problem by automation, where people used to spend all the time doing the same manual or mental task over and over again, free market capitalism solves this by increased efficiency through investments into new types of tools, eventually automating all of the repetitive tasks away. As to feeling satisfaction with ones own work - this is best rewarded in capitalism and it's definitely shunned upon with unionized approach to work.

Unions do not like to reward performance, they reward seniority.

The other part of the problem is government making it increasingly difficult for anybody to start their own business that competes with established monopolies, that government creates, maintains, protects, bails out and stimulates and taxes for. Try and start your own business and see how that works out for you in this over-regulated, overtaxed market, which also will not let you have business credit due to the fact that gov't destroys value of money and savings and makes it impossible to get meaningful credit and all the money goes into government bonds - this is by design.

- nobody exploits people in real free market.

People are only exploited in government regulated markets, which prevent any kind of real competition, and currency is destroyed, individuality is destroyed and group think is encouraged.

- iPads.

I don't know what the point of this 'prediction' is. As markets give people more of what they want, people are happier that they can have these things? In free market prices fall, they don't go up and at the same time quality increases and rate of innovation and invention goes up. As prices fall, more and more people can afford anything, and this allows everybody to have basically all the same things as anybody else.

Free market is the great equalizer and distributor, because anybody can have the same stuff, because things are plentiful and cheap.

----

The answer to the author of this nonsense article is - NO. Marx was not right, he was not an economist, and neither is the author of this..... whatever it is.

Of-course once this comment was left in the story, it immediately was deemed to be a 'troll', which it is not, but /. moderators do not get tired of marking thing that they personally disagree with as 'troll'.

Hmmm. Now the moderation brought my karma all the way down to 'Terrible'. I didn't know there was a level called 'Terrible' before. I wonder what's below 'Terrible', is it 'Fuck You' or something?

It's obvious that there is a moderator around with unlimited points that has a problem with my comments, whatever my comments are at this point. An AC suggested that I don't bother commenting here, so that must be the guy (could it be a girl? I wonder).

So what's the big offense here? Obviously it's having an opinion that doesn't jive well with that moderator. I don't know if it's fear that others might agree with the opinion or is it just legitimate hatred of some sort the roots of which I can't even identify?

What can I say, I'll keep commenting but I can't comment under my name, the account doesn't allow me to leave more than 2 comments per 24 hours now, and if they keep moderating down, it's likely that the account will be shut down completely, so it's going to be impossible to comment under the account, so I'll be an AC. Still leaving comments, but now without history, which is quite lengthy for me here, over 10 years now.

Does this make any sense? I don't know.

Hmmm. Now the moderation brought my karma all the way down to 'Terrible'. I didn't know there was a level called 'Terrible' before. I wonder what's below 'Terrible', is it 'Fuck You' or something?

It's obvious that there is a moderator around with unlimited points that has a problem with my comments, whatever my comments are at this point. An AC suggested that I don't bother commenting here, so that must be the guy (could it be a girl? I wonder).

So what's the big offense here? Obviously it's having an opinion that doesn't jive well with that moderator. I don't know if it's fear that others might agree with the opinion or is it just legitimate hatred of some sort the roots of which I can't even identify?

What can I say, I'll keep commenting but I can't comment under my name, the account doesn't allow me to leave more than 2 comments per 24 hours now, and if they keep moderating down, it's likely that the account will be shut down completely, so it's going to be impossible to comment under the account, so I'll be an AC. Still leaving comments, but now without history, which is quite lengthy for me here, over 10 years now.

Does this make any sense? I don't know.

inflation vs deflation
reasonable income taxes
taxes kill infrastructure

loooong thread on government competence (and some on medicare/ss/fed...)
looong thread on FDR and recessions and Fed
'labor rights' fb predictions
hft algorithms synchronized
health insurance as it used to...
more leaks wikileaks...

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1886268&cid=34363612 Marxist much?
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1883934&cid=34345704 Cut to the chase
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1877382&cid=34296690 BS income taxes

Well shit. Never did I believe here on Slashdot, I would get a troll for a frank expression on Linux. Wonders abound it seems.

I've been in and around here for a very, very long time. The troll is actually funny. I won a bet on that one, BTW. Now I can go collect! Thanks for that.

I've thought about the state of open software off and on for many, many years. I think we've a clear case of a self-fulfilling reality happening with Linux Desktops. The current state of the computing industry mostly ignores the movers and shakers in favor of ordinary users doing what users do. Some of that happens on a Linux desktop, a lot of it doesn't, but does that mean the desktop is dead?

No! If you look out in the embedded space, just as one example, there is a TON of Linux. Most of those users run --wait for it! The Linux desktop! That kind of thing happens on a Linux system, just a safety tip from your buddy potatohead.

Now, maybe saying the word "fuck" got me the troll rating. Really? Come on folks! This isn't disneyland --or is it? You all tell me.

Finally, the core thing to remember about the growing body of open source software is all about the use value. For those who make the investment to make use of the open software tools, their use value and their skills are not mapped to closed things, and that value goes off the charts.

That's not gonna change for a percentage share metric published on some industry rag, filled with a lot of people, who don't actually understand the power of multi-user computing, nor the multi-user X window system for the powerful gift it is.

Those of us who do understand those things are not going anywhere! Why? Because we simply don't have to, and that's a fact often ignored when the failed comparison between Linux and proprietary software desktop solutions is invoked.

Think that one through kids. Think it through really hard, and maybe you may come to see how the open software dynamics work, and through that, why a pronouncement that the Linux Desktop is dead ends being as silly as I make it out to be. We users of that desktop will be perfectly happy to let you know when it's dead, k?

Well, unfortunately /. does not have an economics section, so I can't post anything there because it does not exist, but I can still have debate threads about what is happening in US economy now and how it will change America in the future.

(compiling some comments together)

Hopefully the end of that thread is shown here.

-----

If you don't understand that corn and gold aren't the only two things on the market, that is your problem.

  - I presented a much bigger list a few comments ago, if you can't read - that's not my problem. Of-course the things I provided in that list are a tiny subset of the list there is, because all commodities are going up in price, because US dollar is falling, which you probably do not understand even the concept of, but you maybe able to read a number, right?

US dollar index fell 18% since 2006. The only reason it's even as high as it is, is because the other currencies that constitute the index are also being printed in currency wars. Good thing Asia has waken up last week, it looks like Singapore decided it cannot win the currency war and the rest of Asia just may follow suit.

Of-course in this war 'winning' means you destroy your own people's purchasing power, nothing else. Those who 'win' this war, lose their quality of life.

There is a measure for the rate of change in overall price levels, and it is showing historically low rise. You can cherry-pick a few commodities whose prices are going up, but you're not fooling anyone.

  - except of-course that the smart money has left USD and is in other currencies, in Asian equities and in commodities.

So if you are so dumb not to understand the insane levels of inflation presented by the price increases, then you deserve to lose your purchasing power.

You think ALL metals going up is 'cherry picking', you think ALL agriculture going up is 'cherry picking'? You think cotton going up by 17.5% in JUST September of this year is cherry picking? Sugar? Rice? Wheat? Basically futures of all staple foods is cherry picking. Ha, interesting. I must check what happened to the cherries, they must have done better than the DOW and S&P in September just as well, though I do not have that number in front of me right now, I'll find out.

It's amusing how you make up ridiculous strawmen like this. I can tell that even you realize that you're utterly out of your league, and you're flailing around as fast as you can to try to distract yourself from your own incompetence.

  - I see, so I am dealing with a troll. Well I understand I am dealing with a troll, but this thread has gone long enough for me just to stop destroying every single one of your arguments in every comment I make.

You are the one saying deflation hurts the poor by taking away their purchasing power. You amuse me in your ignorance by making such statements, so I am waiting for more and more comes with every new comment of yours.

You are the one saying inflation provides people with more purchasing power, which is bullshit because nobody has wages rising at all except for the bankers and probably politicians taking bribes to help out the bankers.

So you have to decide, which is it? Is deflation hurting people or is it inflation?

I am clearly on the side that inflation hurts people more, all things considered inflation will destroy currency at this point.

You believe that deflation hurts people. So it must really hurt people if commodities, the basic foods, the basic elements go down in price, it must be truly painful to know, that sugar would go down in price rather than going 19.3% UP just in month of September of 2010. Which shows clear inflation because at the same time dollar lost a few percentage points and S&P gained only 8.8% and Dow gained only 7.7%. You do not see the inflation and move into the commodities and foreign markets, but what else is new? nothing.

You know as well as I do that falling wage and price levels are bad for people with debt, and good for people with stockpiles of cash. You know it because it's so simple and obvious that there's no way not to know it, especially after I've spoon-fed the explanation to you over and over.

  - but you are willfully ignoring the simple fact that inflation will not allow people to pay their debt out ever.

Of-course inflation will PREVENT people from actually being able to pay their debt out ever, because inflation forces prices up but wages are stagnating. So people have only one option: get into MORE debt. Your society at the end will have insurmountable amount of debt. Your mind is unable to comprehend the simple truth that those with debt will never get out of debt in inflation. For them to get out of debt would take an extraordinary effort, which they will not be able to achieve, since the gov't is ramping up the inflation levels now.

The idiot at the head of the Fed came out with a statement that he wants to see 'inflation' up to be at 2% level, from the level he 'sees now', which he insists is 1.5%. All of these numbers are cooked. BUT EVEN if he actually was telling the truth (which he is not) then who believes that Bernanke knows exactly what to do to finetune this imaginary levels of inflation by .5%?

So he knows exactly how many treasuries to buy back to achieve this specific levels? He'll overshoot by a landslide. Nixon started price controls when his CPI numbers were at 4% (and at that time they counted inflation differently as well), but at 4% he decided to implement price controls, which are of-course fighting the symptoms of inflation, not the cause of them. And price controls do not work.

Bernanke will create more massive inflation than exists now, which is going to be amazing. Corn up by 60% in 3 months? HA! He'll push it up by 600% in 3 months, that's what he is going to achieve, yet you are still going to sit here and yup about not having any inflation.

You'll be sitting one of these days, in a cold apartment with no heating and no electricity and no running water, eating cat food out of a can that you heated up on a piece of wood you found outside, and you'll be saying how great inflation is. You'd have all that money and nothing to buy with it. Keep an eye on that wheelbarrow that you'll be dragging your piles of money around in, because if you leave it unattended, somebody will dump the cash and steal the wheelbarrow.

--

Tell me this: why on earth would you talk about "rampant inflation" when you know perfectly well that "inflation" means something else in the minds of everyone who will read your comment? Are you trying to deceive them, or do you just not care whether they understand what you're saying?

  - I answered this ridiculous thing in every comment, you are just too stupid to understand it.

Whatever your definition of inflation in your head is, it does not change the fact that money is being printed, that USD index is going down, that commodities are going up. It does not matter that you do not believe in something that is clearly happening around you.

Nobody will ever pay out their debt in inflation, especially in hyper inflation, nobody sees their wages rising. Bernanke specifically stated he wants purchasing power of all Americans to fall faster, because in his mind that's how you make Americans more competitive. This obviously relies on Americans NOT HAVING WAGE INCREASES THAT CORRESPOND TO INFLATION.

So nobody will be paying out their debt. Eventually people will be borrowing money to buy food (and some do now, the food-stamp program is basically IT now, but the borrower/printer is the gov't instead of separate people). Eventually you will be eating that cat food, I hope you remember this conversation thread then.
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http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1816458&cid=33858844
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tired of repeating the same things....

Context

(As usual, not to lose the post.)

The market is not irrational in having business cycles, there is nothing irrational about eating and then taking a dump, is it?

Business cycles are exactly what is needed to keep economy healthy, the boom becomes a problem, just like overeating, and a bust is the solution of the problem - taking a dump and detoxing.

Boom ends up producing too much, creating jobs that should not have been there. As an example I will use the Internet dot com bubble. Would you argue that it was good for economy to have all those HTML 'coders' create websites with loaned money to buy pencils at a dollar and then sell them at 50% loss on the Internet? Of-course they would 'make it up on volume'.

If you don't understand how that is a boom, which leads to market being saturated with unneeded jobs (fat) and it is in a need of a correction, then I can't argue with you. The people MUST lose jobs, some companies MUST fail and some lenders MUST go under and prices on consumer items MUST deflate. This keeps the lenders and companies honest and gives the consumers time to think over their expenses as well.

Do you call that irrational? Calling it that is irrational from my perspective.

You are also wrong on the Keynes. It is all Keynes ideas of keeping the Bust out of the economy that is happening and is leading to over-consumption, and it is precisely for the Keynes ideas that government must keep the boom going and must not allow bust to happen.

Why would government want a bust? Government is a disease of the society comparative to hypertension and obesity and diabetes, that's how society gets sick and dies. It is also an economic burden, it is not a productive force. Government hates the bust portion of healthy economic cycle because it forces government to shrink.

To avoid the bust, the government prints money and borrows and in fact if it actually was able to take 100% of all personal incomes, it could not cover its expenses at this point - that is not just a chronic, that is a disease in acute form.

It's like trying to prevent someone, who overate from relieving themselves, the consequences could be very bad - intoxication and death (maybe an explosion even, ouch).

Just because so many governments of the world have adopted this Keynesian idea does not make it right, it is wrong, just like slavery was wrong even though accepted by a majority.

I was wrong on Greece

In my previous comment I said this:

The difference between US and Greece is this: Greece is in Euro and cannot print, so it either quits Euro and goes back to Drachma and prints the money into oblivion causing a crash of its bonds/treasuries/currency OR Greece bites the bullet. Greek's Government for some reason decided to go the High Road and to be Honest for some reason, I need to figure it out.

well, I was wrong about EU and Greece altogether. The so called High Road of paying the creditors is not really coming out of the pockets of Greeks. Now it is obvious that EU IS going to print Euros.

So Germany committed to printing a trillion euros to save Greece now, whatever Greeks are going to be doing in terms of taxes and cutting spending is purely a token move. Of-course for some Greeks this token move will still be painful enough, why, they may have to cut from 16 to 12 monthly salaries in a year for some people, outrageous I tell you.

However the main point is this: EU just like US decided to monetize the debt. They decided that the creditors will get their money back 100 cents on an Euro. This is basically a move by the heads o the EU States to save the ASSES of their banker friends, who made all of these outrageous loans to the Greeks when they should have known better and should have seen that Greeks could NEVER pay back, just like US can NEVER pay back.

But apparently the banker friends of EU Governments were right!!! They are right!!! They can lend any money to any EU State and they will never be called on a bad bet. All of their bets are good, they are covered.

Do you understand what is happening? The harm that should have been carried out, the lost debt that must have hurt the bankers that loaned the Greeks the money is now socialized between all citizens of the European Union. It is the same thing that is happening and will continue in US, the bad debt that should have been defaulted on is socialized by all of the citizens of the US.

These bankers have it all figured out, it is amazing! They can lend money to any government of US or EU States and they will NEVER lose the bet and will not even lose the interest, in fact their interest is guaranteed! It is amazing!

So the truth is that Euro is going to be just as worthless as the USD only somewhat later in time because US is much ahead of Europe on this road to hyper-inflation.

So I admit it, I was wrong. I was wrong that there is a government that is willing to take the High Road and be honest and do what really needs to be done: Default. They have to default so that the debt is paid not 100cents on a dollar but at the rate at which they can do. So that the lenders are not rewarded for their stupid behavior and lending practices but are punished and learn to be diligent and to care about where the money is going.

Who will suffer now? Not only the Greeks, who SHOULD be suffering for this, but the rest of the EU citizens will suffer, all of them are poorer now and will continue being poorer in the future with these governments.

Who will come out as a winner? The bankers. They now have assurances of 2 major states: US and EU that their bets will not go bad, that they do not need to be careful who they lend the money to. This is how moral hazard is created.

Another winner: Gold, Silver and other various commodities.

Get rid of your dollars and euros, buy and hold gold and silver. The fiat currency is dead.