Giving examples of things that cannot create other things that are part of themselves does not disprove the ability of something to create something that is part of itself, any more than giving examples of blackbirds precludes the existance of bluebirds.
True, but can you explain how given and example of something that cannot create other things that are part of itself can also create things that are part of itself? That paradox would have to exist if a creator created the universe inside the universe not yet created.
A self-modifying program can create a subroutine. It is still part of the program.
Ahh... A complex repeat of the example I initially provided with the object on the paper. A subroutine is by definition limited to the subroutine and the program is outside it. But I see you go on missing this little tidbit of logic.
A catepillar can create a butterfly and still be the same organism.
Actually, no. A caterpillar changes into a butterfly, nothing is created. It is a well known process of metamorphosis.
A hypothatical "god" could create the universe by forming itself or part of itself into the universe, and in so doing could leave evidence of either its prior state or of the anatomy of the whole accessible to the residents of that universe.
What would the god -hypothetical or not, exist in before it created the universe? What makes that different then the universe it created? Now a god could be created at the same time a universe is created but to claim that which did not exist created that which did not exist is a little illogical to say the least. And even then, creating something at the same time is just semantics as if one was born as the byproduct of the birth of the other. But that is inconsistent with the line of thought we are discussing because the assertion has been made that one created the other, not that both simultaneously appeared.
Now, if you want to argue the semantics about exactly what a universe is and what constraints the permeability or nonpermeability of the boundaries of that object put on interaction between a hypothetical "creator" and the contents of the universe, that could be a more meaningful conversation, but there we'd just be establishing the implications of unproven theories should they be proven true, and we are far from proving many of them.
I'll go one further and ask you how something can exist before it is created? I do think you are relying on the creation of objects within the universe for your misunderstandings and not the properties of the universe that we are or at least think we are subject to. But in order for something to have created our universe, we have to be an object with boundaries that apply to us- not the creator who acted to create. Otherwise, the logic can't flow.