Apparently there's also a secret constitution we're not allowed to see...

While I agree with what you're trying to say, there is an unproven assertion in your statement - an implication that this is an "either/or" scenario.

That hasn't been proven, and frankly I don't believe it's true. Intelligence gathering and old-fashioned police work can operate within sane boundaries and still protect us.

Will the occasional attack happen? Yes, unfortunately it will - but, as we've seen, that's true even with these intrusive, unconstitutional secret proceedings running amok.

Dumb thing is - people forget that there were plenty of clues noticed before 9/11 with which, if it weren't for bureaucracy, the plot might very well have been prevented. That's with the laws that were already in place at the time.

We finally have energy efficient light bulbs that can last for years and don't cost an arm and a leg.

Can't have that - let's add some complexity to the system. It'll raise the price and increase the failure rate!

Yeah, this whole discussion does seem to be about being self-righteous.

There is a larger, more fundamental, question - why do people bother going to trade shows *at all* nowadays?

I've known plenty of guys who scream at the TV during a game. I can't say I've ever seen one of them doing it while partially or fully unclothed (thank goodness).

What part of "over the last decade" did you not understand?

Although as far as Innovation goes - what has Facebook innovated really? MySpace was pretty popular before them, and it doesn't seem like FB is really doing much that's different... other than currently succeeding. But FB seems to already be losing steam with younger people - it's we old farts that currently drive it.

I listen to This American Life - I know what an office with no employees means.

These guys are patent trolls.

I do believe them, actually.

I believe the specific statements they are making right now ARE true. But these statements are pretty specifically crafted to attempt to draw people's attention from the significant parts of the accustations.

Did they come out and say "we don't have access to all the data on Google, Microsoft, and Apple servers"? Did they say the secret congressional slideshow was forged or innacurate? No - they said "the claim that we have unfettered access is wrong", and then talked about "extensive oversight". They say "Snowden didn't have clearance for that level of information", not that the information he provided is wrong.

It is pretty obvious they DO have complete access to all that data - and we already knew about the supposed "oversight" that we're not allowed to even know who is performing or what their directives are.

Snowden did his country a greater service than these people could ever dream of doing themselves. Hopefully, someday, they or their successors will figure that out.

I'm not clear on why this is an iPhone-specific problem. The Android phone I bought from AT&T two years ago seemingly does exactly the same thing. It will automatically join AT&T wifi networks if they are in range - for example, when you walked into a Starbucks.

They already had these laws for over a decade - it didn't stop the Boston Marathon bombers.

Warrant? What makes you think they're taking the time to ask for a warrant at all?

There are three possibilities:

1) Facebook and Google are lying (or deliberately obfuscating) when they say NSA does not have direct access to their servers.
2) The NSA was lying to Congress in that top-secret slideshow, where they claimed to have direct access to these servers.
3) NSA has direct access, but got it without the cooperation of the companies - perhaps with planted employees.

If possibility 3 is the answer, then - if I were Google, Facebook or Apple - I would be working like hell to figure out who the plants are because they're undermining my business.

As an aside - way back when the government reversed itself and started letting companies export software making use of 128-bit encryption, I must admit I wondered if that meant they had acquired the ability to crack that level of encryption in real time.

Speaking as an American citizen: Given the revelations of this past couple weeks, I have no confidence that our government would operate within those constraints if some random functionary decided it was more important to spirit an American citizen off to Gitmo than to observe that citizen's "inalienable" rights.

That's the thing about secret courts - there's no oversight. I'm sure they claim there is; but you're never going to see any proof that it exists or functions the way you'd want it to.

So why don't we have 1000mpg cars yet?