a quarantine of the healthy has never been done before. let's be clear about that. quarantines in the past have always been of the sick, not the healthy. yes, a quarantine of the sick has been effective in the past. no such thing can be said about this quarantine of the healthy. what data there is is all over the place, and very bendable to the whims of the entrenched and invested.

i mean, if the lancet can be made to publish a paper built of fake data, what can you trust?

as for the children, there is research on this. everybody should look at it. here's one paper.

Children are unlikely to be the main drivers of the COVID19 pandemic – a systematic review
Jonas F Ludvigsson
2020 May 19

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7280674/

we should not be concerned about children bringing home the rona

i think this is a pretty good policy paper from toronto's sick kids hospital.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200720174247/http://www.sickkids.ca/PDFs/About-SickKids/81407-COVID19-Recommendations-for-School-Reopening-SickKids.pdf

i think this is apropos

UN Declaration of Human Rights

have a look at articles 24, 25 and 26 ...

article 24 - reasonable limitations on hours of work required. paid vacation is mandatory.
article 25 - guaranteed minimum income
article 26 - accessible education for all

Looking over that, I'd say that this basic minimum wage guaranteed is simply a means to comply with the United Nations declaration of universal human rights.

=begin gadfly
As far as I know, this declaration is for humans only, not robots, not corporate "humans" (that frankenstein creation of SCOTUS), not military contractors with their guaranteed cost plus corporate welfare that dwarfs the cost of this plan.
=end gadfly

ok, fair enough.

my somewhat anecdotally comes from my wife being a nurse, my step-daughter being a nurse, and we have another nurse in the house. i have a lot of doctors in the family, but i myself am not one. the word i hear from the nurses is that the doctors don't get the vaccines. i've read stats in newspapers that seem to confirm this.

regarding the flu vaccine specifically, most people i know have read about the lack of effectiveness of the flu vaccine, and that it makes you more susceptible to next years flu. they aren't against vaccines generally, just against useless ones like the flu vaccine.

one person i know never got the flu - until she got the flu vaccine, came down with a bad case right away. she says she'll never get the flu vaccine again. a good friend of the family got the flu vaccine in the morning one day a few years ago, and he died that afternoon. Sure, he was older, but he was in good health. Sure, he could have passed away from some undiagnosed illness, but that scared most of my family away from the flu vaccine.

up until a couple years ago, i was on the fence wrt vaccines. the first connection i made with bad stuff happening to this generation is allergies. I've been aware for some time now that most countries don't have extreme allergy problems among their children. My wife is from the Philippines, and this allergy thing is completely unknown there. Especially the peanut allergy. Peanut allergy is unknown in most third world countries, but here in my child's school there's a safety wall in the teacher's room filled with 30 pictures of children with serious allergies, mostly to peanuts. Here, one in fifty children have a life threatening allergy to something, and this simply did not exist in previous generations and it does not exist in other parts of the world. Then i found out that peanut oil is a GRAS unlisted adjuvant ingredient in all vaccines, and has been since the cotton seed oil problem with vaccines back in the 1940's. Researching the origin of allergy, i find that everything points back to the hypodermic needle. The word allergy was coined by von pirquet, an austrian doctor studying serum sickness in the 19th century (serum sickness was what they called a bad reaction to vaccines in the 19th century). The reaction my child has to peanuts is called anaphylaxis. This word was also coined by a researcher into negative reactions to vaccines. It was the french doctor Charles Richet who coined the word for this deadly reaction to vaccines, and he got a nobel prize for his work in 1913. Richet was able to give dogs an anaphylactic reaction to raw meat by injecting them with raw meat proteins. To this day, the easiest way to create a severe allergy to something is by injection.

Richet was not a humanitarian. This is what he has to say about people like my child.

Anaphylaxis is thus necessary to the species, often to the detriment of the individual. The individual may perish, but this does not matter. The species must at all times retain it's organic integrity. Anaphylaxis defends the species against the peril of adulteration.

Well, that's breathtaking. and if anaphylaxis isn't quick enough, we always have the gas chambers.

thanks for those points.

re hazmat suits - i was talking about a 10 dose vial falling on the floor and breaking, not a squirt on a shirt.

up until 2002 or so, most if not all vaccines had mercury in them. the form of mercury is thimerosol, which is a disinfectant used in the manufacturing of vaccines. This is extremely toxic. I read of cases where there was an improper application of thimerosol to disinfect a new born umbilical are and it killed the child.

here's a table of mercury content in (some) vaccines, from 2013. more or less current. follow this link: http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm. You'll notice that, yes, the flu vaccine has mercury in it, but it is not the only one. Also showing up is a meningococcal vaccine.

presently, mercury (thimerosol) is used in any multidose vial. the flu shots are usually packaged in 10 dose vials. those have mercury in them. if you can get a flu shot in a one dose vial, then it probably won't have any mercury in it. just aluminum salts and all the other toxins they use to really rev up the vaccine.

there is no form of mercury that is not harmful. i understand the relationship to be linear with quantity. mercury does not just pass through the body, not thimerosol and not any of the other kinds of mercury that cause mad hatter disease, minimata disease, grassy narrows disease, and so on.

the links i posted are good, well referenced and not hard to read. there is no reference there to the wakefield study. however, wakefield is one of the people quoted or commenting in the links I posted. I've probably read more about the wakefield thing than most. i wouldn't say his theory has been discounted so much as it's been smeared. You'd never know there were other names on the study, but wakefield was the only one without insurance to defend himself.

if you were to read up on the simpsonwood thread, you would find how the cdc and big-pharma hacked at the data until the autism link disappeared. read up on thompson and find out how big-pharma used tobacco science to make it look like there's no link. they funded a lot of bad science and meta studies.

we've all seen bad science before made in the service of profits. the tobacco companies got by for years saying smoking wasn't bad for you, in fact they'd tell you it was even good for you. they had lots of (paid for) studies published to prove it too, but it was all lies.

independent science is what's needed.

evils of vaccines, eh? I didn't say that. the thing that really gets me is the simpsonwood conference. now that was evil, and it was done by evil people, not a vat of some snake oil.

here's a better link about simpsonwood. This has the simpsonwood transcript.

http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/chapter2.html

i challenge you to read that and not come away with the conclusion that the CDC is corrupt and venal.

I'm sorry for you and your family. autism is everywhere now. in the last 20 years it's gone from one in hundred thousand to one in fifty. Everybody, myself included, either has asd, has a relative with it, or knows someone with it. They like to say it's genetic, but it's not. It didn't exist in previous generations, and it does not exist presently in countries without pediatric vaccinations.

in the last year a CDC whistleblower has come forward, and is testifying before congress. you must have heard of him. Yes, vaccines cause autism. The CDC said so. Not to mention the vaccine court in the US, and a court in italy, etc, etc. You don't have to look hard to find well referenced articles about this. Follow the links and you'll find Dr Thompson's letter of confession, and tapes of him discussing what exactly the CDC has done.

here's a link for the CDC whistleblower. Dr. William Thompson

also, Dr. William Thompson.

the simpsonwood tapes have been out for years, where big-pharma and the cdc plotted out how to hide the autism connection. The corrupt and venal CDC not only sat on this info for years, but invested your tax dollars in every scheme possible to hide and obfuscate this truth.

it should be simple. mercury is a neurotoxin. we know this. if the vaccine vial falls on the floor and breaks, you bring in the hazmat suits. inject it into small babies - it will damage them, no doubt about it. it's mercury - what do you expect? now, as to whether you diagnose it as autism or minimata disease, that would be a different matter. that's a regulatory capture issue.

here's a table of vaccine's and the inserts as pdf. http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm

I see Diptheria toxoid all over the place in this table. other references seem to confirm that the 4 or 5 way vaccine contains the toxin and not components of the bacteria.

The vaccine coverage rate for barcelona is 95%

That would seem to be a nail in the coffin for this herd immunity theory. Where is patient zero?

Other literature indicates that whatever immunity the vaccine confers dissipates after a few years. here: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/2/11-0987_article

also in there, it says the largest cofactors for diptheria are: #1 war; #2 unemployment. Spain has a really high unemployment rate now. Also, note that eastern europe has high vaccination rates but a persistent diptheria problem. Seems to me eastern europe has a persistent war problem too.

also in there, it says 75% of the people getting diptheria have already had the vaccine. Sounds like this vaccine has got snake oil as it's active ingredient. reading the product insert i see more than 50% of the people getting the vaccine suffer from side effects, with around 10% having very unpleasant consequences. safe? effective? strike out on both counts.

the numbers there say that the vaccine reduces symptoms, but I suspect they put some lipstick on those stats.

Most (75%) case-patients reported in the European Region were at least partially vaccinated, but most (74%) case-patients and (93%) infants who died were unvaccinated).

they don't appear to have factored for the most vulnerable groups, who are also least likely to be vaccinated - the very old, the very young, and the very sick.

most people think the government is lying to them. does that make them conspiracy nuts? I don't think so, unless for some unknown reason they think the government's lying has a purpose.

So, if you think the government lies randomly, like some kind of quota system, then you're normal, but if you think the government lies purposefully, then you're a conspiracy theorist? Are you anti-government, or just anti-bad-government?

Dubya: Hey, Dick, what are we going to lie about today?

Dick: Well, George, we're halfway through the B's. Bin Laden's at the top. Let's do something with that.

there you have it. the 911 truth is out.

maybe this?

http://spreadsheets.latimes.com/look-vaccination-rates-california-child-care-cente/

or this? http://spreadsheets.latimes.com/immunization-levels-california/

I've read that the more educated you are the less likely you are to have your family vaccinated. Specifically, the reference was that Lawrence Livermore Lab has an extremely low vaccination rate.

Also, somewhat anecdotally, doctors don't get vaccinated either. Doctors will not go to get the flu vaccine, and nurses will get it only if forced to.

thanks for the reply.

"anti-vax moron" is the ad hominem argument you used.

as well, a straw man argument would be alleging that i was grasping at highly improbable straws to make my point. your lightning in the rain argument is like that. I was pretty clear in saying the harmful effects listed in the product monographs are highly probable, not highly improbable. perhaps to use your rain analogy, rather than lightning, we should talk about getting a cold or pneumonia from standing in the rain. pneumonia can be just as deadly as lightning.

the product monographs show that vaccines can and do cause serious harm. there is no screening done to detect possible vulnerabilities before a vaccine is applied. it should be a choice as to whether you or your children get a vaccine. as a medical treatment, to your body, you should be able to refuse any treatment you don't want for whatever reason.

many pro-vax/anti-choice people discount and ridicule reasons for refusing vaccines. often they make a straw man argument, typically alleging some religious issue.

given the use of human fetal cells and pig cells in making vaccines, there's probably lots of religious issues there. i'm sure muslims and jews would be just as unhappy about having pork products injected into them as they would about being made to eat them.

aside from that, the product monographs give ample reason to not want to have the vaccine, irrespective of any religious claims. efficacy of vaccines is much less than 100%, 60% they say now, and the best case scenario for timespan of immunity is 3 years or so.

frankly, for measles, it looks to me like my chances of a good outcome are way better getting the disease when i'm young and thereby being granted actual real bonafide lifetime immunity without any negative side effects. As opposed to rolling the dice every three years and hoping i never get the really serious possible effects. like death, or permanent disability. a large percentage of vaccine recipients are communicable for some weeks after the vaccine. and since vaccines are cultured in live cells, a person can be communicable for all the diseases in the mix. that could be a terrible thing to bring home to your loved ones. aids from a vaccine cultured in west africa green monkey cells? that actually is on the buffet offered us by big-pharma.

ad hominem.

read the product monographs. more than 20% of vaccine recipients report adverse reactions, including death.

the monographs compare the vaccine with a placebo, and claim the adverse reactions are better or no different from the placebo. but this is a placebo that causes vomiting, fever and diarrhea. it's not what i'd normally think of as a placebo. then you find they've either used an older version of the vaccine as a placebo, or some brew that has all the same stuff as in the vaccine, except not the virus pieces or whatever.

autism was almost nonexistent before 1990 when we started injecting our children with a known neurotoxin (mercury). now it's 1 in 50, an epidemic.

serious allergies were also almost non-existent. nobody had peanut allergies before 1990. now it also 1 in 50, an epidemic. by the way, peanut allergies do not exist in countries that do not do pediatric vaccinations.

if you're going to give the andrew wakefield thing about autism, i'm going to give you back william thompson.

i went to the vaers database and asked it for vaccine complications resulting in death.

69,990 was the answer.

http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.php

there's been more than one outbreak at the disneylands.

18% at the most recent one. 18% of the people who got measles were up to date with their shots.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/measles-transmitted-by-the-vaccinated-government-researchers-confirm/5429081

this article about the failing measles vaccine is also interesting.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-disney-measles-outbreak-evidence-reveals-a-failing-measles-vaccine-is-to-blame/5426016

according to the article on torrentfreak, LulzSec was cracked last year because one of their hackers used HMA, and HMA readily gave up their logs to the FBI. HMA is a UK company. So, if privacy is of any worth to you, don't go with HMA. If you think you can use HMA to get onto torrents and share movies or songs without worrying about the long arm of the american law, think again. next stop, gitmo.

... leaving the door wide open for human-vegetable hybrids.

the law seems to forbid human hybrids with other mammals. That leaves a huge area of potential nobel prize research for human hybrids with funguses, reptiles, invertebrates (bugs, jellyfish, worms) and plants, without even having to put out the call through seti for extraterrestrial volunteers.

this cups not half empty, it's half full!