Comment Re:Java is already dead for new development. (Score 1) 276
Lets grant your point then. Lets assume that the general problem of updating software hasn't been solved by your local admin, your OS or the universe in general. Lets assume that updating software is the responsibility of the software VM and the various miscellaneous politics and technology that surrounds it.
Java imposes a set of problems *at least as bad* as just straight upgrading software.
I'm faced with the problem of updating firewall rules on an ASA. So I fire up ASDM to do so. And it fails, because its been a couple of weeks since I did it last, and Java doesn't want to work any more. So I try to upgrade Java, and am faced with the decision of installing the Yahoo toolbar in my browser or not. Really? Are you fucking kidding me?
Personally, I don't really care if the ASA OS is written in 6502 ASM, or in VB on an embedded 386. And I especially don't care if the fancy management tool is written in GWT (which actually does "just work", unlike JWS stuff), Java, or for that matter, even Flash. In this example, what I *want* to do is write a firewall rule. In dealing with this minor problem, I'm forced to deal with the insanity that is desktop Java - which is neither provided by SMS or a zypper repository, due to Suns apparent desire to annoy me.
Unsatisfied with just making me think of Java and Sun when I just click on some link somewhere and upgrade, I'm force to go through a barrage of links and licenses before I can download the software. On Linux, I'm forced to agree to the license *again* before I'm allowed to create a symlink by-hand to get it to work. Under Windows I'm forced to uncheck someones desire to force the Yahoo toolbar on me.
Again: Are you fucking kidding me? Faaaaahk! I don't have to jump through this many hoops to get MSDN software. Or trials from Novell, let alone shareware or OSS stuff.
Has no one at Sun ever tried installing software from anywhere? Is installing Java easier then it was in 1994? Sure. What is the hardest desktop software to install in 2010? Java.
Is building a JWS cheaper then paying for an Installshield license? I suppose. Is building a JWS easier then writing a .spec? It couldn't be harder, that I know. But I'm not a developer. I have 0 desire to have Java on any of my systems; it is a means to an end. Why must I think about it? Why is a developer tool trying to install a shitty search toolbar on my user centric web browser?
Java may (or may not, I'm not really willing to grant that point) make life easier for developers. But Java makes everyone else life harder. And does so with pleasure.
Of course, this is entirely beside the larger issue of "Java Web Start" that it not running in a browser (and this includes Flash), by definition, makes it not web based.
Java imposes a set of problems *at least as bad* as just straight upgrading software.
I'm faced with the problem of updating firewall rules on an ASA. So I fire up ASDM to do so. And it fails, because its been a couple of weeks since I did it last, and Java doesn't want to work any more. So I try to upgrade Java, and am faced with the decision of installing the Yahoo toolbar in my browser or not. Really? Are you fucking kidding me?
Personally, I don't really care if the ASA OS is written in 6502 ASM, or in VB on an embedded 386. And I especially don't care if the fancy management tool is written in GWT (which actually does "just work", unlike JWS stuff), Java, or for that matter, even Flash. In this example, what I *want* to do is write a firewall rule. In dealing with this minor problem, I'm forced to deal with the insanity that is desktop Java - which is neither provided by SMS or a zypper repository, due to Suns apparent desire to annoy me.
Unsatisfied with just making me think of Java and Sun when I just click on some link somewhere and upgrade, I'm force to go through a barrage of links and licenses before I can download the software. On Linux, I'm forced to agree to the license *again* before I'm allowed to create a symlink by-hand to get it to work. Under Windows I'm forced to uncheck someones desire to force the Yahoo toolbar on me.
Again: Are you fucking kidding me? Faaaaahk! I don't have to jump through this many hoops to get MSDN software. Or trials from Novell, let alone shareware or OSS stuff.
Has no one at Sun ever tried installing software from anywhere? Is installing Java easier then it was in 1994? Sure. What is the hardest desktop software to install in 2010? Java.
Is building a JWS cheaper then paying for an Installshield license? I suppose. Is building a JWS easier then writing a
Java may (or may not, I'm not really willing to grant that point) make life easier for developers. But Java makes everyone else life harder. And does so with pleasure.
Of course, this is entirely beside the larger issue of "Java Web Start" that it not running in a browser (and this includes Flash), by definition, makes it not web based.