The Internet Taxi That Couldn't Connect 68
Ant sent in the link to this Salon story about a ride in one of Yahoo's 10 San Francisco Internet Taxis - and how the driver couldn't get the modem to work. I sure hope I have better luck with the wireless modem and ISP I'm getting for the (Linux) laptop I carry around in my limousine. Has anyone else got Linux running on any of the wireless ISPs yet? Got any hints or tips you'd care to share with the rest of us?
Re:Real Ricochet Information (Score:1)
I'm afraid not. I've used the Ricochet before, and just like a cellular phone, the bandwidth you get is highly dependent upon local coverage. If you are on the outer-edge of the maximal distance from a transceiver, you get poor bandwidth, aggravated by poor latency. It's quite easy to get less than 28.8K bandwidth.
Jon Frisby, Sr. Software Engineer,
Personal Site (MrJoy.com) [mrjoy.com]
Re:CDPD for Linux (Score:1)
Ricochet & Linux, play well together. (Score:1)
Re:Theoretically... (Score:1)
Only one gotcha- some of the PPP endpoints on the Metricom side don't seem to play nicely with Linux's concept of compressed headers. Don't use them and you'll be all set.
Monty
Re:Speed Limit (Score:1)
--
Leonid S. Knyshov
Network Administrator
Re:score -1: offtopic (Score:1)
Ricochet works great under linux.... (Score:1)
Used it on my PalmPilot as well, when I wasn't on the laptop. Sure made things nice. I used to get paged about some stupid system problem, and use the Pilot/Ricochet combo to dial in, telnet to the offending Unix system, and do what I needed to do. All without carting a laptop around.
Oh, and I never really found Ricochet to be slow. One thing you have to remember is that default install says to use 28.8 or 33.6. However, if you set it for 56K, it happily operates somewhere between 33.6 and 56K. Not that this is really going to matter very soon. Metricom (the people who bring us Ricochet) has gotten their 128K network out of beta testing and are starting to deploy it now. Just imagine, wireless Internet access at ISDN speeds.
It's top on my Christmas list *g*
-Todd
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Re:Experiences with Ricochet. (Score:1)
Suggestions... (Score:4)
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wireless access (Score:2)
Theoretically... (Score:3)
It connects to a serial port, and "looks like" a modem... All you need is PPP software... Even the Palm Pilot supports it (with an adaptor for the cable...)
http://www.ricochet.net
The biggest drawbacks being performance (about 33.6K on a good day, although they promise 128K soon...) and availability... Only certain areas (like the bay area) support it...
Jon Frisby, Sr. Software Engineer,
Personal Site (MrJoy.com) [mrjoy.com]
Re:USR/Megahertz (Score:1)
Sheesh...
You shouldn't be surprised though... Analog cell phones just have really pathetic potential bandwidth... The fastest I've ever seen anyone claim is 9600BPS under optimal conditions... That was the Nokia 9000 cell phone/PDA unit...
I'm not sure how the various digital standards hold up though... Or satelite...
Jon Frisby, Sr. Software Engineer,
Personal Site (MrJoy.com) [mrjoy.com]
Me too... :o( (Score:1)
Sprint PCS Internet (Score:2)
Why? (Score:1)
How long is the average cab ride? It just doesn't seem like it would be long enough to justify wasting money on this thing. It is like all those airport kiosks. If you are going to habitually spend $2/hour for connectivity, just buy that damn wireless modem?
score -1: offtopic (Score:1)
and if you dont you should!
tyler
Richochet works just fine (Score:1)
I have two friends using them on their laptops and they are quite happy... even with the speed limitations.
Just don't try to do Xforwarding!
USR/Megahertz (Score:1)
Ricochets Work Great (Score:1)
It's very stable and there are no timeouts. I recommend them. In fact, I'm about to get another one instead of a second phone line and a modem, while I hold out for some sort of fast internet access. Much cheaper over the course of a year.
They can be pretty slow if you're in a crowded area, though.
Re:Internet taxis (Score:2)
I use Ricochet (Score:1)
It's all right. It's extremely slow (~28.8), but I like being able to just leave the connection up. In fact, my primary use of my home PC these days is via telnet, from work.
I had a problem getting it to work, due to some incompatibility between the Linux and Solaris ppp daemons. I fixed it by using the "novj" pppd option.
Speed Limit (Score:1)
It's probably because of the difficulty of acquiring a new relay every second or two, like cellphones in planes. (As for the taxis, law enforcement would help, but not in Willie Brown's city.)
Wireless as backup for DSL (Score:1)
I've been contemplating the same thing for a while, as my DSL reliability has been in the toilet. Can the rest of the net still find you when the DSL is out? If so, are you doing anything fancy with the routing or just relying on DNS to do the trick?
--mkb
Ricochet works fine. (Score:1)
If you're located in an area with Ricochet coverage, then it's a fabulous deal. It's the only IP connectivity I use from home since it's as fast as a modem, doesn't require a phone line, and I can keep it connected all the time.
Ricochet is certainly in the running for the most cool geek service available.
G.
P.S. For a new geek toy that
Re:Sprint PCS Internet (Score:1)
It seems from the images that they supply a serial cable and a CD... it's difficult to see why they want $199 for it. Unless the software is some kind of external Winmodem driver, it seems like you could put together a cable yourself and save the $199.
Anyone have one of these?
I just got one (one of the new little tiny ones) I pay $50/month for 500 free minutes, free long distance, and no roaming charges anywhere digital PCS service is available (most of the country, IIRC) The only problem I have with it so far is that the coverage on the University of Maryland campus really blows - next to or inside of any building, service goes out completely. One of my friends has a digital Bell Atlantic phone and it's apparently much better on campus.
About the cable, I was considering getting one of these, but I think it's windows-only; the only reason I was considering it was for my Palm III, so that's out of the question. (it also says on the packaging "Not compatible with Macintosh Powerbooks or iMacs") It probably has custom dialing code, etc, since the phone surely needs some kind of signal to tell it to start dialing, as well as the fact that if it's not connected already there's no dial tone.
"Software is like sex- the best is for free"
-Linus Torvalds
Re:Why? (Score:1)
And yes, this is in San Francisco, and no, I've never been in a Yahoo cab yet. Although the author is right, you can see them from about a half mile away....
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Re:Theoretically...and then there was reality. (Score:1)
Linux and wireless ISPs (Score:1)
Lagos Nigeria right now working on a wireless ISP setup.
We're using equipment from Hybrid. The client 'modem'
connects to your computer via ethernet- if your computer talks TCP/IP and has an Ethernet port, you
can use this equipment.
Hybrid makes 'wireless cable modems' that use MMDS cable systems to
provide Internet access.
Robbie
Re:and what about a bofh? [nt] (Score:1)
Re:Me too... :o( (Score:1)
Re:USR/Megahertz (Score:1)
Well certinaly PCN/GSM in Europe doesn't get over 9600, but as I tend to use it just for email that doesn't matter too much.
Barry
I think I know the problem... (Score:1)
AOL is always right, give it a shot.
Dan "there goes the karma" Turk
Re:wireless access (Score:2)
since he hadn't gotten the Linux support for it figgered out yet.
The phone number is 777, no logins or password prompts (serial link is considered to be physically secure, "modems" authenticate using pre-set IDs in ROM). Everything else is just like for normal modem with PPP and hardware flow control.
Richochet in the VA/MD/DC Area (Score:1)
-stax
Re:Why? (Score:1)
Re:OT (Score:1)
*wink, wink*
Re:Speed Limit (Score:1)
G.
Real Ricochet Information (Score:2)
1) Connect ricochet to a serial port (here, COM1 under DOS/winblows)
2) Turn the ricochet on.
3) Type or execute as a script this line:
pppd -d connect 'chat -t 20 -v ABORT BUSY REPORT CONNECT "" ATDT777 CONNECT ""'/dev/ttyS0 115200 modem noipdefault defaultroute crtscts
4) find a command line and type: "netscape http://www.slashdot.org/&"
This assumes that you have pppd support in your kernel and that you have chat and pppd installed. The modem speed option is there, but you get 28.8. So dont complain about my cmd line. This line also assumes you have some DNS servers in your
Have fun surfing.....I do....at the sushi bar...at the mall....on road trips.....on the metro (above ground) Where ever I am.
PS. I use the SE. Battery life is ~4.5 hours each, the batteries are 2"x1.5"x 1/8th". I carry five.
What's next? (Score:1)
In any case, does anyone know how this is being paid for? I understand that Yahoo! contracted to put them in, but how are they making money? Or is this an 'advertising' expense? Seems to me that this could hemorrhage money. Cellular costs, initial equipment outlay, maintenance (cabs usually aren't that clean...), theft... the list goes on.
Connecting old boxen (Score:1)
The user is blind, and all her adaptive equipment works with DOS and WIN 3.1. Since it would cost thousands to get her adaptive equipment for a win 98 machine, it looks like I only have win3.1 to work with or possibly Linux with wine.
She has an old zoom modem running at 14.4 or 33.6 and Trumpet winsock version 3.0. (her talking browser requires a winsock). Since she has 8 meg of ram memory shouldn't be a problem.
She has no problem dialing up her shell account and getting her Email.
The trumpet winsock has no problem connecting to the ip, but as soon as she trys to bring up her browser the service provider claims her ping counts go out of sight and the browser reports that the network is down. I tried using an old version 3 netscape browser with the same result.
This setup used to work fine a few years ago, do the service providers have hardware that is less tolerant of old socks or what?
CDPD for Linux (Score:1)
I've also written a discussion of different wireless access methods [swcp.com]. In short, CDPD is a more widely available solution than the Ricochet and also works while the vehicle is moving. Ricochet is faster and more reliable if you can get service.
Sierra Wireless MP200 (Score:1)
Except the modem itself isn't too portable. It's a 3 watt beast the size of a small toaster that's installed under the back seat of my Cherokee. (One of the perks for working at a telco).
Re:Real Ricochet Information (Score:1)
Uses for Ricochet (Score:1)
I use a Ricochet modem on my server at home in Alexandria, Fairfax County, VA. It's my only connection to the Internet. Sometimes I get nearly 28.8K out of it. Other times it's much slower. Overall, I'm happy with the service although I wish that its interactive performance was better. It's unusable for telnet. In spite of the sometimes slow connections, I'm running a couple of services over the radio link. Visit Madison [dynip.com] to play with my NetBSD port of Alan Cox's Linux Portaloo [dynip.com] and also Ben Reser's Echelon Armor thingie which I swiped from here. [reser.org] I'm running an OpenVerse [openverse.org] server on madison.dynip.com:7000 and a dopewars [ox.ac.uk] server on the default dopewars port. Feel free to try any of them. I don't advertise, so I don't get lot of traffic. Don't be surprised if the connection is slow!
I've also used the modem on my NetBSD-running Sony PCG-505 laptop. I've used it to listen to WPFW in DC and WWOZ in New Orleans using RealAudio. In fact, Frank Ahrens of the Washington Post wrote about my experience in an article on the future of radio. It appeared on January 21, 1999. Depending on network congestion, it acutally sounds OK. In the article, I think I said the sound was "like a cheap transistor radio". Mr. Ahren's editor cut out the qualification that that was a weakness of the small Sony speakers I used rather than the streaming audio technology or the wireless modem.
A recent announcement [ricochet.net] from Metricom [ricochet.net] promised 128K service in 12 markets by summer 2000.
Re:Richochet in the VA/MD/DC Area (Score:1)
-stax
Re:CDPD for Linux (Score:1)
I have a flat rate "email only" package from Bell Atlantic Mobile for $25/month. And it seems that they don't filter packets at all, so I can actually ssh and irc on the service even though I nearly only use it for email.
Re:Sprint PCS Internet (Score:1)
1. The laptop connection kit costs $99 in NYC.
2. The service is much more expensive. As opposed to $70 for 700 minutes of voice, i now pay $130 for 800 minutes of voice/data.
3. Getting connections is iffy at best, both using the minibrowser or using the phone as a modem. connections fail about 2/3s of the time, though i haven't ever had it drop once i get connected.
4. The minibrowser is totally useless aside from checking weather and sports scores. The UI is also really ambiguous(somebody port lynx to this phone please!!!)
5. And yes, it doesn't connect above 14.4
Re:Real Ricochet Information (Score:1)
And I'll agree with the previous reply: actual speed varies. The actual tranmission rate of their "28.8" service is 50 Kbps, but with overhead etc. no one gets that. One Ricochet developer said that he lived quite close to a "poletop" (their term for a relay transceiver) and could sometimes hit 35K.
driver (Score:1)
Re:score -1: offtopic (Score:1)
Re:Sprint PCS Internet (Score:1)
It seems from the images that they supply a serial cable and a CD... it's difficult to see why they want $199 for it. Unless the software is some kind of external Winmodem driver, it seems like you could put together a cable yourself and save the $199.
Anyone have one of these?
Chris Moyer
moyerca@one.net
www.atwatch.com [atwatch.com]
Experiences with Ricochet. (Score:1)
However, Ricochet's microcellular network architecture, while it has many advantages, means that your packets must travel many "hops" to get to a wired network access point. This makes latency terrible, even compared to analog modems. (I often see 1000ms ping times, and TCP connections frequently lag.) This won't bother a Web surfer as much, but it makes ssh connections painful at best.
Furthermore, Ricochet usually works extremely poorly from a moving vehicle. They have a small cell size, low-power transmitters, multipath issues, and take a little while to perform handoff. Unless you have a really unobstructed view, a Ricochet will more or less stop working above 30mph. This made me wonder how they would ever get it to work in a taxicab.
Now, Ricochet supposedly has a next-generation system, Ricochet2, in development/testing that will yield higher bandwidth (and hopefully lower latency). I don't know if it will support operation at speed, or much of anything else about it.
It sounds like Roblimo plans to get a CDPD modem, which uses a completely different technology (using the digital cellular network). I've never used CDPD, but it should have coverage and velocity characteristics similar to cellular phones. Unlike Ricochet, compatibility may prove more difficult. I've never actually seen a CDPD modem in operation, though, so I can't say for sure.
(CDPD also has much better coverage than Ricochet.)
Re:Sprint PCS Internet (Score:1)
The telephones themselves use "HDML" instead of HTML, so you can't view normal web sites, but only ones written in HDML. There is an SDK for HDML, but it's Windows/Solaris only, but the language is simple enough. You can type in any URL you want, but only text/hdml will actually work. I have my server running a few HDML pages with local movie times (ripped from the theater chain's web site, then converted,) and I'll probably add other things to it.
The serial connection (a $200 cable) just makes the phone pretend to be a 14.4 modem. Unfortunately, my notebook (A Sony PCG-C1X) only has "non-legacy" such as USB and Firewire, so I'd need to spend ANOTHER $80 getting a USB-Serial adapter to get it to work. Supposedly, it will work with any ISP, under any OS, as it just pretends to be a serial modem, but I haven't had the opportunity to test it yet.
Re:Richochet in the VA/MD/DC Area (Score:1)
Re:Experiences with Ricochet. (Score:2)
Larger packet size->less header info->more useable bandwidth / spend longer collecting bytes at each end before each packet
high compression->less physical bytes transmitted->more bandwidth / more time compressing/decompressing
--Parity