LA Weekly: The Lonliness of Linux 329
Bad Juju writes "
Part 1 of 3
on Linux from LA Weekly...semi-informed Linux-using journalist..citing cultural literacy as an excuse for using MS..not totally negative. We'll see how the next 2 articles come out. "
I run into this every day (Score:1)
And over the past 4 years, I have had no company request anything BUT Word and Excel, and the few times files were sent in WP/Quattro they were re-requested in Word/Excel.
Ever tried to send plain ASCII text or tab-separated spreadsheet?
I run into this every day (Score:1)
All our data starts out as comma delimited data. We stopped sending files in that format 4 years ago - basically when everyone started requesting the Excel formated data.
Comma-separatel list *is* supported by Excel. Directly. If they want some pre-processed graphics you can generate and attach it, or give them scripts that will generate that in their beloved Excel. But no, it was easier for you to say "yes, sir!" and contribute to this proprietary-fromats madness.Windows users may have more friends... (Score:1)
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ISO-8859 Non Ascii (Score:1)
Is this all about word processing? (Score:1)
Nah... (Score:1)
There's nothing _that_ obligatory about the W98/W95/Wforever interface. It always amazes and fascinates me how people put on blinders and make assumptions in very MS-centric ways: maybe it's just easier for me to see since I have never ever owned a Wintel PC! (or had one in the house, or done schoolwork on one, or worked with one in the workplace etc etc)
People assume there has to be a taskbar. Why does there have to be a taskbar? To see what programs are open. Well, you could have a little tile or icon that popped out a list of running programs when clicked on (Mac system 8 and under), you could have a little application with lots of info about everything that is running for only when you really need serious process info (top, of course, the Unix version of this type of tool: also MacOSX has top, in a spiffy translation to GUI instead of ascii-art, but keeping all the organisation precisely the same!). Or you could have a scrolling wheel device that looks like those tacky web counters, and you roll it with the mouse or even use one of those scrollwheels (wee, MS tech, ohboy) to see what apps are available- click the app that comes up to raise it... or simply leave the whole thing to the person's memory, rather like a Mac user who never needs to check the apps menu because he or she remembers perfectly well what apps were launched, including ones with no open windows currently showing. That, too, is possible- something will always need to be memorized, even if it is 'duh, button in taskbar mean running proggy'.
Now, this little rant was entirely and singlemindedly about process shortcut tools. Imagine all the other windows98 interface details and consider how other ways could exist to do those things. I _do_ hope people are not equating checkboxes and radio buttons with W98: everybody does those, they aren't specifically Windows at all. Some Windowsish features are actually detrimental- for instance, tab-panel interfaces are most often used to not have to think about interface but instead organize UI like you were shoving it into a drawer- tabpanel interfaces tend toward the really arbitrary and annoying, and there's no situation where you _have_ to take several unrelated interface objects and bung them into one UI container to hit the user with the ability to do half a dozen unrelated things under one dialog box. This is just poor design... but I'm beginning to cover other bases, so I'll shut up
Use vi, or even applix. (Score:1)
I use LINUX for everything. :) (Score:1)
I can get by without Word - easily.
I do have one problem with Linux though... There is more software available than I have time to run - and it irkes the heck out of me!
Using Windows is like... pulling teeth with no anesthesia using rusty pliers.
I go over to my friend's house every once in a while - he's heavily into games and runs Windows98.
Here is the scenario:
I arrive to find him working on his computer adding this new widget or that. Usually, he's adding a new cooling device for his CELERON. Big fans and heatsinks, WaterFall, temperature gauges, Voodoo cards etc... This takes him about 30 minutes.
Next, comes loading the drivers and rebooting, downloading the latest drivers, loading them and rebooting again and again and again. Going into the BIOS to jimmy around with the settings. Half the time, the Windows OS is bluescreening and asking to be rebooted. This takes another hour and a half.
Then, he has to figure out what is wrong with his network because it ain't working now. More rebooting and loading of drivers and rebooting.
Then, he loads a new game he's downloaded. Something goes wrong. The DLL's get corrupted half the time and he has to reinstall Windows from his image file. This takes another 2 hours.
By this time, I'm falling asleep so... he makes some coffee or expresso.
This has been a day in the life of a Windows Gamer. YMMV
With LINUX, I can download the source code (or binaries) to a zillion different programs. Compile and run with hardly ever a problem. I almost NEVER have to reboot - can't remember the last time I rebooted because of a crash. I can sit down and get to work doing what I want to do without having to FIX my computer on a daily basis. I can't put into words the increase in my piece of mind. I've been spoiled by Linux! I've been ruined! Woe is me... I have no patience for Windows anymore.
Addendum to "Life of a Windows Gamer" (Score:1)
We begin playing a game after installing it and rebooting and downloading the latest patch and installing it and rebooting again.
We get into the game and begin playing... everything is going fine - when all of a sudden. BANG! Blue screen or automatic reboot. Kule! I just love watching the BIOS information and hearing the beep. It makes my day.
We try to play the game again... all is well until. WHIMPER~ Windows freezes. Reboot!
In the game again. This time we play awhile then when we try to save where we are in case of a lockup - Windows locks up. FIZZLE. Damn!
I can't stand that freakin OS Windows and can't wait till more games are available on Linux. The world will be a better place.
Was I ranting? Who me? Naaaw - you've got to be kidding! I never do that. I do? Oh.
Huh? (Score:1)
I love Linux, and have switched to it from NT because I find Linux far superior for developing real applications. I would REALLY like to hear the specific areas in which you found linux lacking. Email me if need be -- I'm willing to put my name behind my posts.
Vim? For documents? It's ALL 'bout LaTeX! (Score:1)
And Emacs for coding.
.
Spell checkers (Score:1)
So I use LyX (which uses ispell as its spellchecker backend). I was able to become proficient w/ it in five minutes. Are the documents I make in LyX somehow worse than if I'd written them with a typewriter or in vim?
Memories... [rambling] (Score:1)
When switching from Linux I just added a new (8GB) hard drive and kept my old data on the old one. Going through it recently, it struck me how much of one's life can end up on a little spinning disk.
I don't really play MIDIs much anymore, though now that I've got a faster CPU I should be able to play 'em via software synth (there are a few such programs available for linux I understand to be pretty good). Anyhow, do keep the stuff around -- it's nice to be able to be sentimental once in a while.
Something I've found, comparing the work on my new HD to the old one... the OS you use influnces who you are. I've stopped dabbling in graphics and play less games (if any at all). I have more programming projects and tend to reach completion on more of them. Although I have spreadsheet software, I now make no spreadsheets; Although I have graphical mailreaders, I use PINE. I'm more attentive to security issues, using SSH regularly.
I care more about doing things right and less about simply making it work. Simply reloading the OS is not an option; Rebooting is not an option; These mean defeat, and I will not accept defeat. Nothing happens "just because"; If there is a problem, I WILL find it and fix it.
Okay, enough rambling. Anyhow, I do encourage you to make the switch... but keep your old stuff 'round.
General idealism (Score:1)
Honestly -- I look at the Glade save files (in xml) and consider them beautiful. I can edit them without using the application they're generated in... it's a Good Thing. Hackers appreciate Good Things.
Word's file format is a Bad Thing. I'll leave it at that; Other folks have explained why. I have no tolerance for such ugliness and the arrogance assumed by the use of an incompatible format.
I'm lucky; I communicate w/ my co-workers by email, sending no documents in formats other than text... When I have to turn in nice-looking documents I write them up using LyX and print or send in PostScript documents.
Of course, other folks may not be so lucky. They'll have to find their own way (perhaps through WordPerfect, Applix or WordViewer, a program I've seen on Freshmeat that converts Word docs to HTML) -- but as for me, my idealism won't allow me to use something so ugly and wrong.
---
Does this make me a software hippie? Perhaps. The folks I work with don't think of me that way, though. I don't talk to them in terms of ideals but rather of practicality and prices. On slashdot, however, my ideals are a bit better accepted.
Out of touch computer geeks (Score:1)
People should know how their car works. Not be able to fix it, neccesarily, but have a very basic idea of what does what. If they don't, they're liable to get BSsed out of a lot of cash when it breaks down.
People should know how their blender works. If they don't, they're liable to hurt themselves.
There should be no black boxes. Really, there shouldn't. Computers shouldn't be black boxes. Appliances shouldn't be black boxes. The policital system shouldn't be a big black box.
Because I believe these things, have I lived a sheltered life? Do I consider myself superior? BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THE EMPOWERMENT OF THE INDIVIDUAL THROUGH UNDERSTANDING OF THEIR ENVIRONMENT, AM I SOME SORT OF FREAK?
Society should not become too complicated for an individual to understand. Once it has, things have gone terrably wrong and should be fixed.
Sadly, no. (Score:1)
Linux crashing (Score:1)
If it's the second of the two, there are plenty of folks on linux-kernel who'd be interested in hearing the details of your problems.
We're not all that bad. (Score:1)
Anyhow, though, the OS one uses really can alter one's life. I've got a big rambling post somewhere else in this article about that... search the main page if you care.
That's not a distro issue. (Score:1)
Remember, the kernel (and the drivers embedded in it) are the same for all distros. Red Hat or Debian or Joe Bob's Linux, makes no diff.
Unless it's video drivers you're talking about. That's the X server's problem.
You WANT a forked OS? (Score:1)
You find a bug using the kernel in Joe Bob's distro. You report it to linux-kernel. It gets fixed. Now not only you but the folks running Red Hat, Debian and Little Joey's Linux Distro get the benefits. This is supposed to be a bad thing?
"Windows people do have more friends." (Score:1)
Regarding the video driver issue... I disagree that video drivers should be integrated with the kernel, even for a significant performance increase, in a server OS. Face it -- reliability is one helluva lot more important than graphics performance in a server or a developmennt platform.
As for your problems w/ linux, I can only say that my experiences have been very different. After moving my low-end hardware from win32 (P5/133, P5/90, some old used 486's), I've been thrilled with the performance. Some of those 486s have been doing AppleTalk sharing faster than the PowerMac Workplace Servers previously given the job; My home machine was almost unusable when working on big software under VC++'s development environment and compiler; With Emacs/GCC, I'm still using that hardware -- and happy with it.
Please detail your performance problems... unless you're talking about something like StarOffice. We all agree that that sucks (well, performance-wise, at least).
Quite so. (Score:1)
Banning folks from using pico was really a good idea. I see folks using it and cringe; As it requires the user to do all the formatting themselves (and does things like word wrap by default that just mess up code), it really results is much less readable code (as compared to Emacs with its auto-tabbing and other programmer-friendly features). Re the reasons for not using Windows for development... well, just ask me by email; It's a bit much to put here.
Anyhow, you're entirely right -- that guy just gave a completely unfounded position without any backing evidence, making him no more useful than any other piece of PR garbage.
Everybody knows the real reason to run Windows... (Score:1)
It isn't Word, either.
The only legitimate use of Windows is to run Solitare.
Fight Back! DEMAND ASCII ONLY (Score:1)
If someone sends me Word *.doc file I usually
request it in text-only RTF format even though StarOffice does a pretty decent job of converting.
It's a matter of principle.
Slashdot sucks, Rob is an idiot.... (Score:1)
Why is this FUD? It's just a Linux user's musings on the social aspects of using it in a Windows World. There's no intent to feed Fear, Uncertainty, or Doubt here; it raises the usual (important) issue of file formats, something that fits in the "Stuff That Matters" category for any Linuxer who has to deal with Word-ed junk.
Slashdot continues to be visited mostly by Windows users...
Oh? Where are your numbers?
Are we here to impress people? Screw them. Screw you.
Who is being served here?
Feature stories about what people are acutally doing with Linux and other open technology in education, business and at home.
Did you read the article? It was written by a writer for LA Weekly. She's in the writing business, or does that not count, since she doesn't pull in $100K? The article is Part One of three - the series is only one-third over, and you see fit to turn this thing into a gratuitous anti-/. rant that's as meaningful as the copy-and-paste antics of the recent pro-MS trollbots. Get a fsckin' grip!
Move along. Let us know when you get your site up and running. Will it be called "Pissed Geek Troll" or something?
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Is this all about word processing? (Score:1)
Even if it required that you spend hundreds of dollars (buying MS Office) to understand their "Chinese"? Even though they are capable of speaking English? Even though this "Chinese" changes every couple of years, each time requiring additional outlays of cash and time spent learning it?
It's rather like sending all your vital letters postage due...
LonEliness (Score:1)
Bell's Second Law of USENET*: Spelling and grammar flames almost invariably contain similar errors.
It's "plagiarist."
(Bell's First Law of USENET: No matter how farcical or satirical your message, someone out there will think you were serious.)
* Obviously we're not on USENET, but the laws are much the same...
Payback (Score:1)
Personally, I hate the idea of sending someone text in a BINARY file. Especially since some of those blocks contain whatever just happened to be in a chunk of memory at the time (like passwords, the secret formula etc..). With a TEXT file, I know I needn't worry about that.
Personally, I'm going to laugh in a couple of decades when businesses start realising those old documents they saved as Word97 are completely unreadable in WizBang2029 and they have to spend big bucks to convert and re-archive everything.
Meanwhile, ASCII has allready been around for decades, and will probably still be in use in 2029. If not, it is at least well documented.
innovation (Score:1)
That includes "creative imitation". It's how Microsoft wins - again & again... They give the herd what they want, even if it's not what they need.
Sucks, huh? Deal with it. No monopoly can win forever on creative imitation...
ISO-8859 Non Ascii (Score:1)
(Hebrew)
--Zachary Kessin
This guy needs to get a life! (Score:1)
In the UNIX and free software worlds there is a true culture. There are characters like Ken Thompson, Dennis Ritchie, Brian Kernighan, Alfred Aho, Chris Torek, Keith Bostic, Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds, David Korn, Stephen Bourne, Alan Cox, Donald Knuth, Bill Joy, etc. I could drop a lot more, these are just names that pop into my head.
As well, the long endurance of software in this culture leads to a true heritage, whereas the historical awareness of a typical Windows user doesn't extend beyond the previous releases of the software packages he or she is using. The legacy behind it all is just disgusting, anyway. MS-DOS, for instance, is just a bad memory for those who used it, and users of modern Windows feel little connection to that time, except for backward compatible kludges whose origin they are hardly aware of.
Whereas people who used early UNIX versions like V6 have fond recollections and stories to tell to new generations of hackers. There is a greater awareness among UNIX users about where it all came from and how the pieces of the puzzle fit together.
Also, I take exception to the remark that vi takes years to learn. That is just downright silly. I remember I was proficient in about a week to the level that I could do all the things in vi that a lesser editor is barely capable of. I wouldn't say that I'm exceptionally gifted in learning text editors, either. The ``years'' estimate for learning vi might apply to the mentally retarded, but not to the person of average intelligence.
widespread != standard (Score:1)
For something to be a ``de jure'' standard, there has to be a document which describes it which is approved by ISO and its member bodies throughout the world.
Then there are de-facto standards, like RFC's and so on. Things which are standardized either through an informal document which everyone agreees upon, or in the form of a sample open-source implementation. Some communication protocols would fall into the former category. Things like the X11 window system would be the latter.
The Word document format isn't ANY kind of standard. It's simply whatever the latest version of Microsoft word reads and writes. It's a moving target that is in the sole control of one corporation. I don't know of any programs that are *completely* compatible with Word 97. They are based on reverse engineering, which is far less reliable than following a specification.
A specification, even an ambiguous or informal one, is superior to reverse engineering. At least it gives you something to argue about. People can get together and hash out fixes to a specification and then update their respective implementations.
Got a point (Score:1)
It is surprising to see people that do not know that there is such a thing as Word versions lower than 97. It is depressing when some of these people have just got their B.S. degree in Computer Science or M.I.S. Scary shit. Scary shit that these people still wonder why the receiver (even in Windooze) cannot a Word document they sent (which btw contained a LINKED Excel spreadsheet which wasn't sent in the mail.) I do not care that much about the general, untamed computer user. They don't need to know the dark secrets and digital mantras of computing, but, man, what about computer people (CS, MIS,
This form of ignorance is wide spread at all levels of professional society. So Linux, at least for now, is only used (consistently) by those willing to learn. That's the key, willigness to learn. That, I think, will be the greatest asset of countries like Mexico. Thousands and thousands of students and professionals who would do anything to have a chance to work in a computer (even if it were running DOS 1.x
M$ did a good job in creating a massive illiterate population. That way, it ensured a consistent, uninterrupted cash flow to their pockets.
Out of touch computer geeks (Score:1)
He was talking about people whose job it is to know about computers. Not a random appliance. Understand?
Daniel
(and btw: I certainly don't know how the internals of a blender, a TV, or a car work in detail and I couldn't fool with them, but I have a general clue about what's inside. I don't think TVs have hamsters.
Windows users as friends? (Score:1)
^D
"Windows people do have more friends." (Score:1)
I use Linux because it DOESN'T CRASH ON ME!
IOW, it works, and does what it does very very well.
Of course, I design and develop software for a living, and things like perl, sed, awk, grep, emacs, and others are the screwdrivers and pliers that get me through my day. While they've been ported to run in a DOS box under '95, they don't run as well. For some reason, they're real slow to boot (I think I know why).
Unfortunately, my target debugger and compiler run under DOS/Windows, so I'm stuck dual booting. But, even with the hassles this causes, it's STILL FASTER for me to reboot into Linux, run a 1000 file grep, and reboot back into '95.
Linux works. Windows doesn't. 'Nuff said.
"Windows people do have more friends." (Score:1)
The only time I've seen Linux crash is when I've been monkeying with the kernel, or various drivers, or had a hardware problem.
that was disgustingly vacuous (Score:1)
vi FUD (Score:1)
Surely it's more of a hint to learn how to use "A" to append to the end of a line? Using cursor keys to go past the end of the line seems to me counterintuitive. Maybe that's just a hacker mentality, and it's perfectly logical to the general population. Not that I use cursor keys anyway. h, j, k and l work just fine without the need to remove your hands from the main part of the keyboard. Besides, they're the same keys as moria [csuchico.edu]/angband [phial.com] and they're even in the same layout as the cursor keys on a good old speccy [philosys.de].
Viva the Macro Virus! (Score:1)
MS is culture in the same way that WalMart is culture.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
Don't tell them. (Score:1)
Then I told my boss, we got a support contract, and now I'm Linux admin.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
Re: (Score:1)
Got a point (Score:1)
...richie
XML (Score:1)
Check the W3C site--Microsoft is one of the authors of the XML format. They may not be leading the charge, but they're not being dragged "kicking and screaming" toward it at all. This doesn't necessarily mean it'll support it in a way which is easy for non-Microsoft programs to interpret, but let's be clear: Microsoft is doing this because they want to be "buzzword compliant." The actual demand for XML in the target market for Microsoft Office (primarily business offices with general secretarial needs and some basic statistical modeling in Excel) is nearly non-existent.
It should also be noted that while Office 2000 should support XML, Microsoft has suggested that XML will not be its native file format. The "problem" of people using Word as the de facto file format for exchanging documents will still be around.
Even positive articles get flames! Cool! (Score:1)
It's remarkable that an article that's a personal reflection from someone who likes Linux, has been using it a while and is buying a new computer to re-install it is attracting essentially nothing but flames. What was it? That she dared to write that people in the business world have to have Microsoft Office compatibility? Even worse, she admitted she's--gasp--acclimated to Word's keystroke commands.
The horrors! The fact that she finds any value in being in sync with the majority of computer users negates anything else she might have to say, doesn't it? If it's not All Linux, All The Time, to hell with it. There's no hardship in using Linux if you're a real hacker.
Right.
Judith Lewis should be commended, not flamed, for writing a funny article that encapsulates the dilemma most users are intimately familiar with when they're trying to use a computer platform that's outside the mainstream. This kind of reaction makes me question just how serious the Linux community is about "capturing the desktop"--people who think that gvim and LaTeX together can replace Microsoft Word for the average office worker, journalist or humanities academic don't really understand what those people do. Insulting them isn't going to lead to a greater understanding of Linux on their part--it's going to lead to a dismissal of it based less on technology than on the coldness of the users. It's probably not an exaggeration to say that for every one person turned onto Linux by Slashdot there's several more turned off by the apparent attitude.
(And, just so flamers have the proper weapons loaded, I use gvim on a regular basis and prepare a quarterly newsletter in LaTeX. I am not "dissing" text editors by saying they're not word processors any more than I'm "dissing" my word processor of choice, Nota Bene [notabene.com], by not writing C++ in it.)
MS Office file formats perpetuate monopoly (Score:1)
Life without Word (Score:1)
(FWIW, while my fiancee's machine has word on it, it also has Linux and WP8 and she's been transitioning over to that and LaTeX.)
Is there a nroff tutorial anywhere? (Score:1)
- Sam
I made a clean break for Linux - NO REGRETS (Score:1)
I needed to learn linux, and it just wasn't going to happen if I kept booting into comfy, crash happy windows.
It's painful to switch because unix was so alien to me, yet I saw an elegance and beauty in it's design that I just didn't see in windows.
Now I can't stand to even look at windows, and I get along in Linux just fine. I write everything in emacs/html.
When using windows I feel chained, hampered. Dead ends and barriers to use everywhere. Learning unix is definitely liberating.
I'll second that (Score:1)
Every day in my life is a new adventure in the cesspool of M$ software. Everything they make is pure, utter garbage.
Can't you demand a tuition refund? (Score:1)
Chances are that s/he_is_talking about the nearest community college.
ISO-8859 Non Ascii (Score:1)
The delivery guy (Score:1)
If so, maybe they live close enough that she could give him writing lessons.
Everybody knows the real reason to run Windows... (Score:1)
Operating w/out a clue (Score:1)
You don't need a license to use your feet, or a bicycle, so why should you need one to use a computer. They're tools, not weapons...;)
Why learn to drive a car? (Score:1)
Almost all tools that increase one's ability to do something, or give one an entirely new ability, will require have some learning curve. "Universally intuitive user interfaces" are a myth.
I'm not saying that all UI's are equal. You're right that a bash prompt is likely to be considerably less usable to a newbie than Windows Explorer. But some amount of training or experimentation is required to use either. Even using a mouse has a learning curve.
I agree too that the typical Linux desktop is a bit too much for the typical user. Things are progressing rather nicely though. If/when we finally get a standard desktop environment with lots of nice apps, and no longer have to worry about a.out vs elf and libc5 vs glibc issues, then newbies might be able to start using Linux.
Not being a newbie myself, I use Linux when I want to do something productive. I switch to NT when I want to play StarCraft.
This was not about "look and feel". (Score:1)
This was about Microsoft Word and the self-
fulfilling standard it has become for word
processing. Self-fulfilling because of OEMs'
bundling Microsoft Office with new PCs for so
many years.
This woman is an ignorant coward.
As I see you read Alan Cox's great essay, I am
sure you saw the part about having to gently
remind "suits" about the way things are done in
the free software community, and do likewise for
AOLers about the Internet.
It is the same thing that must be done in
respect to information exchange in general.
When people post PowerPoint presentations and
Word documents to the Web, they need to be gently
reminded that it is Not The Right Thing To Do.
How long does it take to learn the needed
features in a GUI based word processor,
especially the modern gargantuan bloatware, to
become marginally proficient with it? I would
submit it takes far less time to learn some basic
HTML, especially if all you are going to
do is write a few paragraphs of text, like
Judith's column.
I do not think that the use of word processing
software has elevated the quality of journalism
or writing in general in any medium. If you are
incapable of spell checking your documents sans
the aid of word processor, do not write. Do not
call yourself a writer, and do not have your trash
published, especially on the Web; where so much
trash exists already, thanks to the likes of
Microsoft Word, Claris HomePage, Microsoft
FrontPage, et al.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
The proprietary file format is dead... (Score:1)
In Microsoft's Office 2000 Preview [microsoft.com] they concur. Notice how every page of that brochure touts Office 2000's Web integration and how documents created with it can easily be viewed with a Web browser.
Ignorant sheeple have placidly accepted the numerous incompatible file formats when what they should have been doing is breaking down the doors of software vendors. "What do you mean I need a plugin/viewer to open this document?"
Fuck that.
Fuck Mac bigots and PC weenies.
Fuck Steve Jobs and Bill Gates.
And Judith? Fuck her. Fuck her and fuck her Word.doc bearing journalist friends. Their kind is dead, too.
Anyone who takes issue with that should read the piece on Douglas Englebart [mercurycenter.com], a.k.a. The Man Who Invented The Mouse, that was mentioned on Slashdot a while back. He saw it all. Pervasively networked computers and hyperlinked documents. Information flowing and being shared, all for the good of humanity.
Instead what we got was a bunch of money grubbing, near sighted bastards who have perpetuated bug ridden applications and unstable operating systems.
15 years to accept a common file format for documents?!!!
15 years to give your operating system memory protection and preemptive multi-tasking?!!!
L O S E R S.
These people have made billions off people's misery; by keeping them in the dark; by feeding and playing off their ignorance.
No longer. The Internet is the "killer application". All "Independant Software Vendors", as they like to call themselves, will conform to it, or die. I cite as proof the fact that the maker of the world's number one application is trumpeting not the spell checker in the next version of its product, but its ability to integrate with the Web.
So take your "Linux will suceed when it has a killer desktop application" and shove it up your ass. First of all, Linux is not the X Window System. Linux does not have an "easy to use desktop", and never will. Of course there will be mass confusion over this, because of companies like Red Hat and Corel. "Making Linux easier to use." "Linux for the everyman."
No, you are piling crap on top of the X Window System; and by the way, if your crap does not compile, with minimal tweaking, on every other UNIX running X, it is a failure. Of course, you think people are too stupid to understand the distinction between X and Linux. Well, you are wrong. People are ignorant because you keep them that way.
Why? So you can ensure your business's continued existance, of course. Breeding ignorance ensures they will be back for that upgrade, or will sign that service agreement.
"Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day..." ...you know the rest.
Standardize your company/office/school/home/girl scout troop on HTML/XML/Java(well...not until Sun really opens it up) now. When Office 2000 come out, you will be hailed as a visionary; and hopefully people will think twice before assuming the necessity of "upgrading" to it.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
"small group of software hippies"?!!! Fuck you... (Score:1)
...and for a longer, equally profane response
to your idiocy, see my other post [slashdot.org] on this topic.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
Nice tripe. Completely irrelevent. (Score:1)
The "Loneliness of Linux" column had nothing to do with Linux.
Read it [laweekly.com].
It is about some wench who cannot spell check
her own documents, and whose friends all send her
documents in some strange format which needs some
strange program to decipher.
Before you get your panties in a bunch about
Feel free to make up your own questions, pursuingthat, let me ask you this:
a similar line of investigation, children.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
Spell checking is not the issue. (Score:1)
the writer of the column did.
The issues are twofold:
column, and the column has nothing to do with Linux.
Nevertheless, and due to a general lack of
reading comprehension, people will read the title,
read the column, and come away thinking
that it was about Linux; that is most evident by a
good number of the responses here.
lot of people think exchanging documents saved in
proprietary file formats is acceptable in 1999.
I do not give a flying fuck what people use to
author their documents or that people make
spelling and grammatical errors. I do care about
perpetuating idiocy via resignation to its
assumed insurmountable dominance.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
The column had nothing to do with Linux. (Score:1)
My post had nothing to do with Linux.
Your post had nothing to do with Linux.
The following profanity has everything to do
with your lack of reading comprehension:
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
You are right; correction: "un-informed", (Score:1)
view a Microsoft Word document has anything to do
with Linux.
Or "the ability to run Microsoft Word" is a
"feature most people need to get their work
done".
Or, for that matter, believes Linux might have
something to do with a "katzian divine revolution";
the thought of which makes me ill, even though
I have no idea what such a thing might be.
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
Not when I have you to do it for me. (Score:1)
---------------------------------
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage,
This was not about "look and feel". (Score:1)
You've Already Got it: PDF (Score:1)
Inquiring minds want to know
.
Life without Word (Score:1)
You lucky bastard!!!
:)
Oh lord, please don't let me be misunderstood ... (Score:1)
OK, now I KNOW she's cool!
I agree with your assessment of StarOffice Judith... I found it perplexing that so many people recommended the beast. Not only is it a piece of bloatware that would make Bill Gates proud, it does a crappy job of translating all but the simplest of Office97 docs.
But I also found your characterization of vi a bit misleading... years? I know you meant no harm by your exaggeration, but think how intimidating that is to someone who wants to try Unix ("it will take me years to learn to edit an ASCII file?").
Oh yeah, I liked that sushi analogy too... damn I'm hungry now.
Cheers,
.
Writing PDF (Score:1)
/me slaps forehead
.
Use StarOffice, dammit! (Score:1)
that was disturbingly bizzare (Score:1)
I think that the poster was just trying to conjure up an image of generally mentally weak people. that's what it did to me, anyways. her article made me nauseated. hmm. let's not even mention StarOffice and just kinda whine. ok. good reason to use (what she admits to be) inferior technology. I sent her a polite but firm letter. I hope she takes them seriously and stops writing this crap.
Figures.. (Score:1)
I don't have a problem with people using MS Windows -- I do myself. it just annoys me when people spout random crap and act in a totally non-logical fashion -- and then try to justify it with whatever random reason they can come up with. maybe she's just been brainwashed by MS, but certainly someone has wrung whatever computer sense might have been in her originally out for her to jutiify using inferior technology with a need to fit in. that is
People confuse me, I guess.
I sorta agree with the other poster, that was... (Score:1)
stupidity is what really trancends gender
she should try StarOffice... I use it all the time (Score:1)
So What Do We Use Linux For??? Everything! (Score:1)
stupidity is what really transcends gender
tar-baby! (Score:1)
yes. random.
Beautiful (Score:1)
What's wrong with the WWF? (Score:1)
The Rock says: Know your role.
So What Do We Use Linux For??? (Score:1)
files for all versions of Word, as I heard the amplified voices from the Corel booth at LinuxWorld say (over and over
In addition, Quattro Pro at least reads (probably writes, too, but I wasn't paying much attention) Excel files, and will be available under Linux Real Soon Now (2nd or 3rd quarter this year, from what I heard in the Corel Keynote address).
No, I don't work for Corel. AFAIK, Applix's stuff probably can do all this, too.
Big Mac and Shake (Score:1)
You are intimidated, at first, by the otherness of it, but after your first bite, you are transported into delight, and wonder what you ever feared about it.
Trend away from Word? (Score:1)
Here Here! (was: Got a point) (Score:1)
P.S. -- The expression is "Hear, hear!"
Zontar
(somewhere in tenn.)
MS Office, Last holdout (Score:1)
Despite the talk of thousands of applications for Windows, 90% people are prefectly happy with
MS productivity applications (Office, Outlook, Project). There are millions of files files lying around. I don't what is going to be Linux standard office suite, Koffice/Achutung/Staroffice/Applix. Whatever it is, it has be able to read and port to MS formats. The moment it is done, Linux has a chance to move to desktop. Writing a filter to MS files is a complex undertaking. But it is absolutely necessary for Linux to get a foothold on the desktop. Until then Linux on the desktop is a pipedream.
Ramana
So change. (Score:1)
Did you try to change?
Hmm. (Score:1)
I tend to move people in my office toward WordPerfect when I can, just because it's the WP of choice among the administrators at the school I work at. Unfortunately, Linux-on-the-desktop here isn't too likely. Our primary app is a bloated, nasty thing that tries to "emulate" a Mac look-n-feel within windows. Consequently, my one-man war against Redmond is carried out on the applications side, with the exception of Access, which allows me a convenient back door to the school app's dbf files and spares me running 8 meg of app over a 10baseT net with 100 other clowns. Perl scripts are underway to cure that, too, but Access does what I need it to.
I don't think the author of that piece was too out there. I also concentrate on Windows 95 from time to time because it helps when I provide support to people. They don't want to hear me crying about better alternatives, and neither do the IT managers here. They just want me to help them.
In the mean time, I'm looking forward to seeing what Corel has to offer with the whole desktop Linux thing.
----------
The law student who -- gets it... (Score:1)
Now that legal research has switched to the internet, lawyers (and other info research oriented professions) need a computer that can stay on the internet all day, dowload hundreds of pages of text/html files, and never cough.
I've lost hundreds of hours over the years do the same in a Windows environment. My system has crashed and burned baby!
So when you say, 'use windows to be more productive.' I beg to differ. Who remembers to hit the save button every five minutes to ensure no information loss.
In fact, in the legal setting those lost hours may not be billable (i.e., they are the fault of the attorney's negligence in using something defective).
No, Linux has been a godsend for me. My uptime is permanent, My 56k modem connection pulls info at 10K/sec. (yes it's true 'insmod bsd_comp && insmod ppp_deflate).
I work on legal issues for debian. Nothing could be better. When I share documents with my colleagues, I show them how they can edit documents in netscape's 'composer' and everyone can share no matter what wprocessor they use. Now the legal market is fully balkanized with users of wp-dos, Word9x, and WP6-8. There are a rediculous number of doc formatters.
I say compose in plain text/html, edit in plain text/html. Post info to intranet server. Format in your wordprocessor.
Needless to say. I never have Netscape composer crash on me. But for serious writing, I use PICO(TM).
I'd use vi, but I never learned how to make it word wrap. emacs is the same way. Although now I write html in emacs.
Give Joe Six pack the following linux configuration. xdm starts on boot, wmaker comes up. Big square icons for the following (wp, or staroffice, netscape, terminal). Tell them, in the black window type 'pon.'
There you go. Browser, wordprocessor. ppp connection. What else is there for Joe Six pack. Joe's gonna love how much faster his internet connection is now.
I'm a lawyer, trust me
Huh? That guy is a nut... (Score:1)
Windows is not taught. I'm not a programmer so I can't really say why exactly, but all the students I know who learn CS learn it in linux, because it is a unix one can afford.
If you think, gcc, gdb, emacs, vi, etc. are tinker toys, then you are a tinker toy.`
My girlfriend's cs classes at uc davis even banned them from using PICO (why?) because they wanted them to learn real editors (i.e., vi/emacs). So there.
Buddy, you're a commercial, a T-Shirt; your a 30-second sound byte.
Big Mac and Shake (Score:1)
"An operating system is a culture, with ways of doing and seeing and expressing things peculiar to its members..."
Stephen King once said that he is the "Big Mac and shake" of literature. I guess that makes M$ the Big Mac and shake of software. So, what's Linux?
I like to think of it as spicy, Moroccan vegetable stew (and no, I don't mean ratatouille) with cous cous.
Anyway, I like my private, M$-free culture better than the brain-dead culture my employer forces upon me.
Cultural Literacy? More like computer illiteracy (Score:1)
A majority of the public doesn't even know what kind of computer they have, let alone how to operate it. They couldn't use Linux if they tried, because they can't even learn to use the power switch.
It is woeful ignorance and its perpetuation that keeps M$ in business.
Operating w/out a clue (Score:1)
Sure, they can do less damage with a computer, at least physical damage to other people, but I would think that everyone would want to understand at least how to get their work done on a computer in the most efficient manner.
We haven't seen productivity gains from computerization because of lusers who don't know how to use their hardware and OS (whatever it is).
EG, I've been given boringly repetitive work that was estimated at four hours and done it in 20 minutes, because I did the first two entries, saw there was a pattern and wrote a little script to do the rest. If Joe Blow luser ever learns to do that.... Well, I'll leave that up to your imagination.
OpenDoc (re: I run into this every day) (Score:1)
IIRC, IBM & Apple were going to OpenSource the APIs. But I may be wrong.
-- Cerebus
sushi and saki (Score:1)
i'd almost say that linux is toro to be too specific.
(fatty tuna)
great now i'm hungry.
It is the only thing keeping me sane in M$-world (Score:1)
I only use Word for official reports. Everything else is done in VIM.
Feel the power of VIM.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
"We could be happy if the air was as pure as the beer"
Familiarity with Word (Score:1)
I have five actively-used computers. Two run Linux exclusively, one runs NT, one runs dual boot W95/Linux, and the other runs MacOS. Computers are so cheap nowadays that there's no reason not to have a system devoted to Windows if you deal with people who insist you use it
D
----
MS culture (Score:1)
Did I save? [amazon.com]
Curiously enough, this tune has no words. Bouncy and cheerful, which doesn't quite describe my mood when Word crashes on me.
D
----
a little story about writing (Score:1)
I've never lost a single byte in over 20 years of using Emacs and Emacs clones (Epsilon, MicroEMACS, joe) on a daily basis to do editing. Word's record is many fewer characters typed, disasterously more bytes lost.
D
----
Letter to the Editor of the LA Weekly (Score:1)
My soul rebels against the idea that if you are an American, you must eat at McDonald's, watch trash TV shows, and use Microsoft Windows. To me, if you do those things, you are supporting mediocrity and low quality; you are giving your money - which is another way of saying your votes and support - to institutions that quite deliberately produce bad products.
You see, the excuse producers of terrible things give is that it's what the customer wants; customers want lousy hamburgers and cardboard chicken nuggets, so that's what they get; customers want Windows, in all its glitzy, crashy glory, so that's what they get.
If you don't want a computer that crashes all the time, that loses your work, that drops it on the floor so you never see it again, you want something other than Windows.
In a word, you want Linux.
And, incidentally, not only can StarOffice for Windows read and write Office 97 files, it can even put that little squiggly line under the misspelled words you like so much. Add the KDE desktop environment, and you have something that looks a lot like Windows, is as easy to use as Windows, but - as a nice bonus - is fast and reliable. Give it a shot. http://www.stardivision.com/ and http://www.kde.org/ give details.
David H Dennis
Marina del Rey, California
david@amazing.com
(310) 827-7153
-----------------------------------------------
PS to Judith [not for publication]: My sympathies. Your article has been slashdotted. If nobody's pointed you to it yet, read
http://www.slashdot.org/articles/99/03/05/07582
Best
D
----
Oh lord, please don't let me be misunderstood ... (Score:1)
I just got a demo of Applixware, and it certainly is a lot faster and less bloated than StarOffice; maybe I'll send them some money for the full version.
Now, if someone, somewhere, would only do something about our hideous fonts, I'd be happy.
D
----
Uhm.. well. it's true to a point.. big point (Score:1)
Computers have received their name from the word Compute, but nowadays they are mostly used by curly women in small cubicles for writing useless reports...
Unfortunately guys like us/you (I'm just learning
The only difference between him and me, is that he does not know what Star Office is..
Uhm.. well. it's true to a point.. big point (Score:1)
Ipologize.. But I barely made it out of the tree this morning -- too much bananas last night..
the monkey