Meta Employees Launch Protest Against Mouse-Tracking Tech At US Offices (reuters.com) 67
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: Meta employees distributed flyers at multiple U.S. offices on Tuesday to protest the company's recent installation of mouse-tracking software on their computers, according to photos of the pamphlets seen by Reuters. The flyers, which appeared in meeting rooms, on vending machines and atop toilet paper dispensers at the Facebook owner's offices, encouraged staffers to sign an online petition against the move. "Don't want to work at the Employee Data Extraction Factory?" they asked, according to the photos seen by Reuters. [...]
The pamphlets and the petition both cite the U.S. National Labor Relations Act, saying "workers are legally protected when they choose to organize for the improvement of working conditions." In the UK, a group of Meta employees has started organizing a drive for unionization with United Tech and Allied Workers (UTAW), a branch of the Communication Workers Union. The employees set up a website to recruit members using the URL "Leanin.uk," a reference to former Chief Operating Officer Sheryl Sandberg's best-selling book encouraging women to seek equal footing in the workplace. "Meta's workers are paying the price for management's reckless and expensive bets. While executives chase speculative AI strategies, staff are facing devastating job cuts, draconian surveillance, and the cruel reality of being forced to train the inefficient systems being positioned to replace them," said Eleanor Payne, an organizer with UTAW. "If we're building agents to help people complete everyday tasks using computers, our models need real examples of how people actually use them -- things like mouse movements, clicking buttons, and navigating dropdown menus," said a statement Meta issued earlier.
The pamphlets and the petition both cite the U.S. National Labor Relations Act, saying "workers are legally protected when they choose to organize for the improvement of working conditions." In the UK, a group of Meta employees has started organizing a drive for unionization with United Tech and Allied Workers (UTAW), a branch of the Communication Workers Union. The employees set up a website to recruit members using the URL "Leanin.uk," a reference to former Chief Operating Officer Sheryl Sandberg's best-selling book encouraging women to seek equal footing in the workplace. "Meta's workers are paying the price for management's reckless and expensive bets. While executives chase speculative AI strategies, staff are facing devastating job cuts, draconian surveillance, and the cruel reality of being forced to train the inefficient systems being positioned to replace them," said Eleanor Payne, an organizer with UTAW. "If we're building agents to help people complete everyday tasks using computers, our models need real examples of how people actually use them -- things like mouse movements, clicking buttons, and navigating dropdown menus," said a statement Meta issued earlier.
Mixed feelings. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Mixed feelings. (Score:2)
Re: Mixed feelings. (Score:4, Insightful)
This should be illegal by default for all employers, including for Facebook. There are boundaries to employment contracts, and that usually is because of the law. We still have human rights while working. Make it a human right to not be tracked to that extent, it is dehumanising. I realise this is unlikely to happen in the US but seriously, making this illegal is one of the best justifications for having a government.
Re: (Score:1, Interesting)
No. When using company equipment, at any company with a reasonable Computer Usage Agreement in place, all data related to said company/equipment remains the property of the company. This is pretty standard, and could easily be construed as to include mouse movements, general usage stats, etc. It's not like companies aren't watching MS Teams or Slack usage of remote workers, and while workers don't like it, it's never been against any labor laws.
Bottom line, if you don't like the company's rules, don't wo
Re: Mixed feelings. (Score:5, Insightful)
We tried the whole "if you don't like it, leave!" Boomer thing but then it turned out that many companies are run by sociopaths with no concept of normal human behaviour. So no, they don't get to say Muh Private Company any more.
Re: (Score:3)
Capitalism is inherently sociopathic, no? And CEO is the top profession that attracts psychopaths*. I think what's happening in society is that the people at the top no longer pretend to care. And my concern (particularly since the last presidential election) is that we're normalizing this behavior.
*Top 10 Jobs That Attract Psychopaths: https://www.forbes.com/sites/k... [forbes.com]
Re: Mixed feelings. (Score:5, Interesting)
No. When using company equipment, at any company with a reasonable Computer Usage Agreement in place, all data related to said company/equipment remains the property of the company.
True in the US, but definitely not true in general. In the EU this kind of data collection would be 100% illegal.
Just say no .... (Score:5, Interesting)
I.T. is going down a spiral where management treats you like a "digital janitor". I'm old enough to remember this being a fairly respected career path. People in most offices had a combination of fear and awe of the "I.T. guys" because ultimately, there was a realization the entire business relied on the technology to survive. If the server or network went down, everything ground to a halt. You simply didn't treat the team poorly who held the keys to the kingdom.
It's a very different atmosphere today. Now, everyone's worried about how to cut costs and achieve the maximum return. I.T. may be critically important to a business's success, but nobody cares. There's the constant suggestion that AI is about to replace half of them anyway, and the trick is to wring every bit of productivity out of the existing staff until they quit. Then you just replace them and repeat.
If you're reading this and thinking, "It's not like that at all where I work!", congratulations! You're part of a diminishing bit of sanity out there. The last place I worked like that, though? The owner passed away and the company was sold, and it's no longer an exception to the rule.
The idea someone needs to micro manage their "knowledge workers" to the extent they keep tabs on how many feet their mouse has rolled each day? Well, that's plain insulting they'd even think it's sensible!
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Yeah, being in the I.T department, you used to be like a demi-God, people were amazed that you could fix some big problem on their computer in a couple minutes! Now, if you can't fix it in under a couple minutes, you're fired. And, then, the company pulls out the stack of resumes to find another victim for the chopping block.
The only thing that matters to the company is that the C-Suite guys can afford more Rolls-Royce's and a new private jet, each.
Don't worry... soon, the company will replace the entire
Re: Just say no .... (Score:2)
Gets fired for "refusing to use a mouse and sticking to tech from the seventies."
Re: (Score:2)
I often sit and wiggle my mouse around in circles around things when I am bored waiting for a process to finish, or on the phone etc; does that make me the companies most productive employee?
As a sysadmin (yes nowadays, I also accept the term digital janitor, digital dogsbody, buttmonkey, handholder general) my mouse movements should show management next to nothing about how productive I am; uptime should be the marker.
I've had poor quality colleagues before try to fool management into thinking they are ind
Re: Just say no .... (Score:2)
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Bottom line, if you don't like the company's rules, don't work there.
If that was a viable solution to employer abuse or poor practices we wouldn't have needed to pass all the labor laws we have that have dramatic improve things like work place safety.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Mixed feelings. (Score:2)
You wrote "no" and then did not provide any contradicting argument. I already know everything you wrote (I think we all do). I also think it needs to be made illegal. Your "if you don't like it, go work somewhere else" is exactly what I meant with "unlikely to happen in the US". It is unlikely to happen in the US because people would rather say "if you don't like sociopath megacorps spying on their employees, encourage the employees to lose their income" instead of saying "we need laws that protect employee
Re: (Score:2)
If a Meta employee hasn't figured out how to use an intervening device driver with a random number generator-with-timer, maybe another gig is in order.
I believe in human rights, too. But any good hacker has sufficient skill to thwart such madness whilst still doing their job. Oh, and I'll be there's an AI vibe code generator they could use with but one token to get the job done.
I've been a CLI coder for decades. Mouse use mostly gets in my way.
Re: Mixed feelings. (Score:2)
Right, because everyone in IT knows how to write windows/linux device drivers and all have unlogged admin/root access.
Re: (Score:3)
If they don't have admin/root rights on their own machine... more is the pity.
Re: Mixed feelings. (Score:2)
Its not their machine you clown, its the company machine. When you leave school and get a job maybe youll get a clue.
Re:Mixed feelings. (Score:5, Insightful)
When you work in a toxic fen, expect toxicity.
Why is anyone surprised at all that Meta would use draconian surveillance on their own employees, when their entire business model is based on draconian surveillance?
Re: (Score:2)
Low cost of living area? Does Facebook have a campus in Podunk, Kentucky?
Engineer salary? Sure, if you have 20+ years of experience working on AIs that are only 5 years old.
Exactly (Score:2)
I do agree that they should stand up for themselves, and they have my support, once I'm done supporting causes I consider more important, like toe lint eradication.
Facebook headhunters used to bug me constantly. I put up an autoresponder telling them what I thought of their business model, leadership and general behavior, and that I would wash dishes for a living before working
Re: (Score:2)
It was obvious they felt stung by someone rejecting the choices they made and kept leaning in to, "but I make more money than you". Which was I was happy to concede, it was true. Suggesting that my self-esteem costs more than theirs didn't seem to be what they wanted to hear.
I couldn't agree more with you here. I'm lucky enough to work for a good employer right now but have worked for awful ones in the past. The improvement in my general wellbeing moving from bad to good was significant enough to where it's become a significant part of my calculations in regard to whether I should change jobs/employer or not.
Re: (Score:2)
They do work at the User Data Extraction Factory, after all...
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At most workplaces you'd be fired for slacking off and spending too much company time on Facebook.
At Meta you'd be fired for slacking off and spending too little company time on Facebook!
Welcome to the Panopticon... (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand: it's well past time for programmers, sysadmins, network engineers to unionize, so if this happens to kickstart such a movement, I'm certainly in favor of that.
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On the other hand: it's well past time for programmers, sysadmins, network engineers to unionize, so if this happens to kickstart such a movement, I'm certainly in favor of that.
In the USA, a billionaire can and will backdoor your union and make it toothless for the rank and file. An environmental change is needed. The 'system' itself is against the people. To speak more plainly: There is no way to alter the system from within the system as the basic law of the land is bendable to a person's will.
Yeah you are working for creepy weirdos (Score:5, Informative)
Haven't you noticed he never blinks and when he laughs it looks like he's trying to eating your soul?
Re:Yeah you are working for creepy weirdos (Score:4, Insightful)
They're all gonna be laid-off next (Score:2)
Jiggly mice (Score:1)
What software is this? (Score:2)
being forced to train the inefficient systems (Score:2)
"Inefficient system" seems a bit denigrating, but that doesn't seem like such a novel situation. Who hasn't trained their replacement at least once?
Indeed. (Score:5, Funny)
"If we're building agents to help people complete everyday tasks using computers, our models need real examples of how people actually use them -- things like mouse movements, clicking buttons, and navigating dropdown menus," said a statement Meta issued earlier.
Early reports on the effectiveness of the training has shown mixed results -- the agents are REALLY good at mouse movements, clicking buttons, and navigating dropdown menus, but no matter the prompt provided to it, the agent just opens firefox and starts browsing job postings on Indeed.
Jumped the shark (Score:2)
The decline and fall of the Fecebook empire began some time ago.
Re: (Score:2)
Mod parent Funny on the scatological humor. Couldn't happen to a un-nicer company because I doubt there are any. Perhaps Amazon, which was mentioned in the discussion by way of negative comparison.
For whatever it is worth (and apparently quite little) I've been reading books about Facebook/Fecebook recently and coming away with a really "bad feeling about this". Book citations wanted?
I didn't think so. This is Slashdot circa 2026...
AI vs AI (Score:1)
You get what you reward ... (Score:2)
I'll do things like take notes on the computer rather than on paper, even though the former is slower. I also believe the "its less effective" opinion. But, it makes the "spyware" stats look better.
There's an answer to this (Score:2)
For Meta, and Amazon, and all the rest: UNIONS.
Let me tell you something NONE of you know: in the old days, before my time, in factories and sweatshops (before they moved them overseas), the women's room had stalls... and a glass wall around. There were a chair or two, for when someone didn't feel good. The managers would watch and time them, then force them back to work.
What stopped that were unions. Along with the 8 hour day and the five-day work week (for those of you with a life other than work), vacati
Re: (Score:2)
> Along with the 8 hour day and the five-day work week (for those of you with a life other than work), vacations, benefits - every single thing came from unions.
All those things came from companies wanting to hire good employees and keep them. The more benefits they offered, the better employees they got.
Look at Henry Ford, who doubled his workers wages because had more than 100% annual employee turnover and doubling the wages meant he got the best people and they had nowhere else to go for a better-paid
Re: (Score:2)
Unionizing can work, until the company has the union in their pocket, and gets the union to sign-off on major policy changes in midnight sessions without any vote.
Of course, that's if the place let's people unionize... some places will just s***-can employees who mention the word, other places make the jobs living Hell until the employee quits or gets fired.
1 or 2% of your pay... monthly or annually?
When I was at Electrolux (2007-2012), our dues were like $60 a month (IAMAW) (and you had no choice... if you
Re: (Score:1)
Today's unions are just financial entities created for the forced extortion of funds to be used to fund the leaderships politics with zero regard for what memberships thinks.
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So then you support laws that empower unions to do more than just fund leadership's politics?
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Unions result in higher wages. https://home.treasury.gov/news... [treasury.gov]
United we bargain (Score:2)
There is no such thing as today's unions. That's a talking point from the Epstein class. Unions are unions and unions are nothing more than workers organizing together because by yourself you just get squished like a bug next to Bill Gates or Elon Musk.
You are not nor will you ever be a member of the club.
Get a poster (Score:3)
with keyboard shortcuts and tell your manager that you don't use the mouse because of wrist pain.
Re: (Score:2)
Huh... that could actually work!
It'd be an interesting experiment, at a minimum.
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Fuuuuuuuck you (Score:1)
Even people who don't use your shitty platform are stalked.
You have the foolishness to actually work there so deserve a taste of your own medicine.
Apparently this is going to be part of a broader theme now that the world has signalled they've had enough of kindergarten imperialism - there's gotta be an enemy to drive arms sales - in this case, that's you, US citizens (and Europe, Cuba, greenland, spain, etc.)
Did I mention fuck you? Probably but double yap ftw, right. No schoolgirls were murdered during the
The good employees can automate this (Score:2)
Mouse jigglers have been A Thing for years now. I used one on my work laptop a decade ago to get around the damn screen lock that I couldn't turn off.
A decent Facebook engineer can probably make one in an afternoon with an Arduino. Bonus points if they disable the Arduino bootloader so it doesn't show up in the logs.
Or they could buy one of these and just plug it in: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/31... [ebay.com.au]
It's an ATTiny85 so it can be customised pretty easily if necessary.
lol (Score:2)
Working for a chosenite and expecting ethics? LOL
Every time they tried to recruit me I deliberately wasted as much of their time and as little of mine as possible.
What is Meta's endgame? (Score:2)
I am more concerned with: what is Meta intending to do with the data in the end?
I would never allow an AI agent developed by Meta, ... which is is probably part black box ... to interface with my system as a user.
There are too many opportunities for abuse here.
And we pretty much know that Meta us going to abuse their users -- because that is what they have always done.
Facebook would be doomed (Score:2)