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Power Technology

Harley-Davidson Stops Electric Motorcycle Production Due To Charging Problem (theverge.com) 52

Posted by BeauHD from the put-on-hold dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: Harley-Davidson has temporarily stopped making and shipping its first electric motorcycle, LiveWire, due to a problem with the bike's charging equipment, as first reported by The Wall Street Journal. The company told the Journal that LiveWire bikes are still safe to ride, but it's asking the first few customers to only charge the $30,000 electric motorcycle at dealerships, indicating that there may be a problem with plugging them into lower-voltage outlets, such as the ones found in their homes. LiveWire motorcycles only just started shipping in September. The LiveWire was first introduced as a concept motorcycle back in 2014. The project then disappeared from the spotlight for a few years before Harley-Davidson reintroduced the LiveWire in production-ready form in November 2018. Reached for comment, the publicly traded motorcycle manufacturer only issued an opaque statement about the charging issue: "As we lead in the electrification of motorcycles, we have delivered our first LiveWire motorcycles to authorized LiveWire dealers. We recently discovered a non-standard condition during a final quality check; stopped production and deliveries; and began additional testing and analysis, which is progressing well. We are in close contact with our LiveWire dealers and customers and have assured them they can continue to ride LiveWire motorcycles. As usual, we're keeping high quality as our top priority."
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Harley-Davidson Stops Electric Motorcycle Production Due To Charging Problem More

Harley-Davidson Stops Electric Motorcycle Production Due To Charging Problem

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  • They ain't selling.

    • In other words, they have been lighting garages on fire, and company staff is trying to find out if they can blame it on someone else's faulty wiring.

      • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        We all know the noisy reason why Harley Davidson riders buy Harley Davidsons, forcing everyone else to hear the noise, to get off on the pervey vibrations.

        Here is a design suggestion, sell the electric ones with headphones and fit a vibrating dildo to the riders seat. So that when the rider mounts the bike properly dildo up butt and revs that throttle, the head phones generated the noise and the vibrating dildo delivers that whump, whump, right up the poseur idiots backside. What the fuck make those dick h

        • Re:In other words (Score:4, Insightful)

          by markdavis ( 642305 ) on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:44PM (#59307968)

          >"riders buy Harley Davidsons, forcing everyone else to hear the noise, to get off on the pervey vibrations."

          Or owners could just not illegally modify the exhaust system, because stock Harleys (although still inefficient, slow, unbalanced, overpriced, unreliable, and poor-handling) aren't all that loud. But no, the very first thing almost all Harley owners do is immediately replace the stock muffler with something horribly loud and annoying. (And yes, many sport bikers do the same, which is often just as annoying). And yet somehow these droves of disturbing-the-peace machines never get ticketed for it, and pass inspections, free to annoy hundreds or thousands of people with every ride. I have two such assholes in my neighborhood.

          When I saw Harley making an electric motorcycle- I was SHOCKED. How dare they abandon lawnmowers and put out something efficient, quiet, and fast? DOES NOT COMPUTE. I would expect this from Kawasaki, Yamaha, or Honda... not Harley. I do hope this is the future. It should prove to be an interesting experiment. The lack of range and very high price tag are not going to help them much with this endeavor right now. I would trade my (fast, not-loud, efficient, smooth, and reliable) gas motorcycle for something electric that had enough range and was affordable.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

          • I would trade my (fast, not-loud, efficient, smooth, and reliable) gas motorcycle for something electric that had enough range and was affordable.

            I don't know what kind of range you need or what counts as affordable for your budget, but I think the best option right now is the Zero SR.

            • Would need to compete with what I have- fully faired, with luggage (sport touring), 300 mile range, 0-60 2.9s, 1/4mi 10.7s. Might step up to below $25k. The zero SR is only 82 miles (at real speeds), no fairings, no storage, and not fast enough. But at least it is only $15.5K... surprising.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by Rei ( 128717 )

            Yeah, I've been cheering Harley on, because this is definitely not low-hanging fruit for them, trying to convince their "loud pipes save lives" crowd to go electric. And I think they've made a design that should be as compelling to their typical audience as possible, at least. I hope they can get this charging issue resolved quickly.

            • I don't know how much time you have spent on a California highway, but most of these folks are pretty much oblivious. I don't ride motorcycles myself as I've seen far too many people hurt or killed riding them, but I do keep a much higher level of awareness than your average driver. Then you have vehicles like the Prius with its terrible blind spots that you could hide my jeep in driven by people who don't compensate for poor visibility.

              No, I would never ride an electric motorcycle unless it had a siren to

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Rei ( 128717 )

                The majority of the exhaust noise of a motorcycle is directed backwards, e.g. "alerting" the people you've already passed, and thus hardly doing you a whit of good. If you don't believe me, try walking around a bike while it's stationary; you'll notice that it's a lot louder behind it than in front of it.

                Also, if safety is your concern, then you'd do way more good to wear a brightly-coloured vest. But of course bikers never do that because it's not "cool" - thus undercutting their "we're only concerned wi

                • >"Instead of making their pipes louder, they could also upgrade their headlights, as those are pointing forward."

                  Oh, they do that now, too. To utterly BLIND oncoming traffic, even in the day time. Super easy now with LED replacement crap (and HID before it). Which is *NOT* safer. Now they are causing other people to not be able to see, what is coming, or how far away, or how fast.

                  Safer would be to have more yellow side and front lights which are not blinding and as widely separated as possible. And t

          • "(And yes, many sport bikers do the same, which is often just as annoying)." Funny... only the Harley riders go ripping through my neighborhood first thing in the morning or late at night.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by gtall ( 79522 )

            I figured it was a Hail Mary pass since their bike market is dying off, only the blue haired seem to like Harley bikes....makes them feel like they aren't over-the-hill yet: see Ma, I can still make a lot of noise!! Ma?? MA????

          • Re:In other words (Score:4, Insightful)

            by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:02AM (#59309098)

            And yet somehow these droves of disturbing-the-peace machines never get ticketed for it, and pass inspections, free to annoy hundreds or thousands of people with every ride. I have two such assholes in my neighborhood.

            The same could be said of assholes with fucking subwoofers that can annoy people in a five blocks radius.

            • I think they're even worse. I've had cars two blocks away whose subwoofer was making stuff on my walls rattle; it's insanely loud, and ignorant AF.
              Hilariously, these are often the same clowns who scoff at drivers of lifted trucks and joke about how small their dicks must be.
              Pot calling the kettle, that is, when your subwoofer is an allegory for your testicles.

              I guess there's just too many people on the road "peacocking", generally speaking.

            • >"The same could be said of assholes with fucking subwoofers that can annoy people in a five blocks radius."

              I couldn't possibly agree with you more. Except it is more like 1/2 or more MILES away it still disturbs me. And often, they will sit someplace for AN HOUR with that crap. Oh, I so much wish I had some type of long-distance, very targeted, microwave emitter that could fry all their electronics. You send your "waves" my way, I send my "waves" your way.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by way2slo ( 151122 )

            I thought there were some reasons to modify the exhaust. Like more Horse Power. I could have sworn I read something about how muffling impedes exhaust flow which then requires more power from the engine to push the exhaust out instead of being used to move the bike forward. Possibly better fuel mileage too.

            • Like more Horse Power.

              There are other reasons, like styling and riding position. I changed the exhaust on my Sportster because I wanted black exhaust shields, and because the heels of my feet tended to rub against them (but of course I left the baffles in the after-market pipes).

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Shotgun ( 30919 )

              No. A properly designed exhaust system uses that energy in the noise to pull burnt gasses out of the cylinder. Loud exhaust was a way to get more horsepower. . . in the 1950s.

              The loud pipes became so popular that Honda moved their exhaust time up by 4 degrees on their Aero models to get more noise. It decreased mileage and horsepower. There is a modification where you increase the length of a slot in a metal disc behind the clutch by 3/8" to recover the power and decrease the noise.

            • >"I thought there were some reasons to modify the exhaust. Like more Horse Power. I could have sworn I read something about how muffling impedes exhaust flow which then requires more power from the engine to push the exhaust out instead of being used to move the bike forward. Possibly better fuel mileage too."

              Nope. That is all nonsense on a MODERN engine. The entire fuel injection system is based on X back pressure, modern mufflers offer little back pressure anyway, and changing the muffler (or even th

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Agripa ( 139780 )

                >"I thought there were some reasons to modify the exhaust. Like more Horse Power. I could have sworn I read something about how muffling impedes exhaust flow which then requires more power from the engine to push the exhaust out instead of being used to move the bike forward. Possibly better fuel mileage too."

                Nope. That is all nonsense on a MODERN engine. The entire fuel injection system is based on X back pressure, modern mufflers offer little back pressure anyway, and changing the muffler (or even the whole exhaust system) doesn't do anything to the intake system. So, usually, when one makes such modifications, actual power goes DOWN, as does MPG. People are still stuck in the 1950's or 60's or something.

                The *only* reason to replace a muffler is looks (who cares), weight (insignificant), or to make it sound different- which 99% of the time = louder. Louder is not safer nor faster, it is just annoying.

                Modern engines use the same physics. If they are designed assuming a specific back-pressure, then it is for other reasons like emissions.

                Tuned exhaust has the effect of lowering the pressure at the exhaust valve below atmospheric pressure, or at least lower than it would be otherwise, and pulling more of the exhaust out of the cylinder. This results in increased horsepower and increased mileage but only over a relatively narrow range of RPM. Note that you can also tune the intake to force more fuel and a

    • They ain't selling.

      Harley is in a conundrum.

      They have two basic audiences. One is the biker. This person considers anything but a Harley big twin as not a real motorcycle.

      The other is what you call, the dentist and his wife. Thes want a big twin because they think it increases their testosterone or something.

      Both groups are willing to pay the premium Harley commands, Neither group wants an electric bike.

      Story time, Story time! Gather 'round Uncle Ol...

      I was riding my VTC 1000 Shadow Spirit a couple years ago. In m

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by msauve ( 701917 )
        "I was riding my VTC 1000 Shadow Spirit a couple years ago. In my standard Leather jacket, blue jeans and low boots."

        So, basically a copy of Harley hardware and attitude.

        Are you a biker or a dentist?

        • >"So, basically a copy of Harley hardware and attitude. Are you a biker or a dentist?"

          And along the same lines... are you a biker or a pirate?

          I posit a biker is simply one who enjoys motorcycling riding. A pirate is one who likes to wear costumes and annoy everyone around them with a loud, illegally-modified motorcycle in an attempt to get attention as part of a "lifestyle."

          South Park isn't as kind as I am...

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by msauve ( 701917 )
            "are you a biker or a pirate?"

            I'm a zen-filled motorcycle mechanic (with apologies to Robert Persig).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Chrisq ( 894406 )

          Are you a biker or a dentist?

          Steve Martin managed both [usatoday.com].

      • In their defense, the LiveWire probably isn't for either of those two audiences. It's for the younger crowd.

        Hell, my office-neighbor rides a Harley and loves it. He's also well into his 60s. Harley-Davidson needs to attract some younger buyers as their existing customers start to die out. An electric motorcycle? If I was in my 20s and considering buying one, it'd be on my list. And, let's face it, the Japanese aren't selling anything yet. The names in the market are Zero [zeromotorcycles.com] and Energica [energicamotorusa.com] with a bunch of

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Sounds like a problem with the AC/DC inverter. Probably a manufacturing defect, it's easy for small imperfections in production to cause excessive heat in those kinds of systems.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Shotgun ( 30919 )

        Or it could be the cheap chinese inverter that they use in their "American made" product.

  • Cosplay... (Score:5, Funny)

    by mcolgin ( 818580 ) on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:57PM (#59307748) Homepage
    .. and I thought they were just a cosplay company.

  • I honestly think they might be taking the honest responsible approach here. They are aware of a real problem and are working to correct. a pause in production and deliveries is appropriate.

    the problem sounds very solvable on the surface.

  • At this time, the entire LiveWire concept is being reevaluated. After consulting with several expert electricians, we have been informed that we may have made inappropriate electrical connections in an quest to make our product an authentic "live wire". We are looking into the possibility that we should *not* have connected the "hot" side of the home charging circuit to the motorcycle's chassis, as apparently this can present a shock hazard to customers while the bike is plugged in, especially on wet garage floors. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, and we encourage our customers to wear leather gloves, rubber-soled boots and long pants if they must handle their LiveWire motorcycle while it is charging.

  • The company told the Journal that LiveWire bikes are still safe to ride, but it's asking the first few customers to only charge the $30,000 electric motorcycle at dealerships, ...

    Then customers can then walk home for the evening and back to the dealership in the morning to pick up the re-charged bike. If Harley-Davidson doesn't sort this out soon, their customers might have to buy some sort of reliable transportation, like a gas-powered Honda, to ride to and from the dealership everyday ...

  • LOL (Score:3)

    by cerberusss ( 660701 ) on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:09AM (#59308190) Journal

    "As we lead in the electrification of motorcycles"

    Sorry, but not to my knowledge. Harley Davidson was dragged kicking and screaming into the game. Others have been pulling their weight a lot more in this area, IMHO. Like Zero Motorcycles [zeromotorcycles.com].

    • Harley Davidson was dragged kicking and screaming into the game. Others have been pulling their weight a lot more in this area

      There are only a handful of companies that make electric motorcycles of which Harley is now one. How is that being dragged kicking and screaming? Due to sales slumps, they are exploring options to be attractive to a younger generation. This also includes electric bicycles.

      https://robbreport.com/motors/... [robbreport.com]

    • Like Zero Motorcycles [zeromotorcycles.com].

      Hardly....Harley is a high-volume manufacturer, Zero not so much. Zero is what Tesla was to the car industry 5 years ago.

      It's the other high-volumes that are being dragged into it kicking and screaming. Where are the Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki electric bikes?

      I think BMW has a new concept model they've been toying with, but I also haven't seen anything from smaller manufacturers like Ducati or Triumph.

  • Charging issues on the LiveWire aside, as a 30-something Harley owner (young by much of Harley's main demographic) I would buy one if the price was right for city use. I would love the instant torque on hand and the ability to have a little more enjoyment on my daily commute. I would want the unit to make some kind of noticeable noise not for annoyance purposes, but for other people around me to notice me a bit more. The amount of times that someone has merged into me on the highways of MONTANA (not exac

    • I got to ride a Livewire back in 2014 when Harley was touring them around the country.

      I don't believe in the "loud pipes save lives" cliche', but it's not totally without merit. The dead silence is pretty unnerving. The group of 6 Livewire riders had to follow a traditional ICE bike around town before heading back to the dealership. I was on the first Livewire right behind the ICE bike. As we were pulling into the dealership, the ICE bike pulled in first, and I saw two guys walk right in front of me aft

      • I do believe that on a bike the pipes do make a difference in being seen and noticed... but I think the "loud pipes save lives" belief is mostly an excuse for guys to fire back at naysayers when they pull up with short shot pipes and the baffles removed. There is a point of hearing someone and then there is just being annoying. I recently upgraded my pipes to something quieter but you can definitely hear me in close quarters and I like that.

  • Well, Harley found couldn't engineer an electric with oil leaks, so this one has to leak electricity.

    • Well, Harley found couldn't engineer an electric with oil leaks, so this one has to leak electricity.

      Too funny., and I ride my Road King more than I drive my car.

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