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Businesses Programming Games

Epic Games Boss Says They'll Stop Doing Exclusives If Steam Gives Developers More Money (kotaku.com) 239

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
thegarbz writes: Epic games is no stranger to controversy recently. The Fortnight developer late last year launched its own games store in direct competition with Steam. Unlike Steam, however, Epic only claims a 12% fee for hosting a game on their store vs Steam's 30%. What has angered many is not the competition but rather Epic's strategy of nabbing up last minute Epic store exclusives sometimes right before launch even after customers already pre-ordered the game on other platforms. Last night Epic CEO Tim Sweeney tweeted that he will end exclusive agreements if Steam price matched the Epic store. From Kotaku: "If Steam committed to a permanent 88% revenue share for all developers and publishers without major strings attached," Sweeney wrote, "Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam." thegarbz adds: While initially this looks like Epic is playing a good guy, there are many reasons to be skeptical. As covered previously Sweeney has aspirations for Epic to become the next Google or Facebook and it is unlikely that the practice of drawing people to your platform through exclusive agreements would be dropped, especially if Steam drops prices to increase competition. More likely the CEO is attempting to improve his company's image in a gaming community which has seen every Epic store exclusive game review bombed across other platforms, positively in the case of Metro Exodus, and negatively in the case of games like Borderlands 2, the squeal of which will be an Epic store exclusive.
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Epic Games Boss Says They'll Stop Doing Exclusives If Steam Gives Developers More Money More

Epic Games Boss Says They'll Stop Doing Exclusives If Steam Gives Developers More Money

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  • and negatively in the case of games like Borderlands 2, the squeal of which will be an Epic store exclusive

    Gotta hate those negative squeals!

    • Indeed I was playing on lunch and passed up on the mission that results in The Bane SMG.

    • Re:Negative squeals (Score:4, Informative)

      by ledow ( 319597 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:51PM (#58492010) Homepage

      The name of the game isn't Fortnight either.

      Some crappy reviewer wrote it using grammarly, accepting every correction, and then the "editor" didn't even bother to check.

      • Some crappy reviewer wrote it using grammarly

        Nope. Actually I just made a typo because I posted it at 1am while drinking. Sorry. I didn't actually spell check the submission at all.

        • Nope. Actually I just made a typo because I posted it at 1am while drinking.

          This confirms something I've long suspected.

          • That editors don't exist or that I'm often posting on my pajamas?

            • That the quality of Slashdot summaries indicates inebriation on the part of the editor and/or submitter. :P

              Since this is the internet, I'll clarify that I'm joking.

    • Also, this:

      a gaming community which has seen every Epic store exclusive game review bombed across other platforms, positively in the case of Metro Exodus, and negatively in the case of games like Borderlands 2

      What the hell does it mean for a game review to be bombed positively on another platform?! Does that mean the game was lauded by everyone, but only when it was on the other platform? Does it mean it was flooded with fake reviews on the other platform trying to lower its overall recommendation? And does bombing negatively on other platforms mean Borderlands 2 was reviewed well on the Epic store but not any other outlets such as Steam or something?

      I like to think I'm quite good at guessing inten

      • What the hell does it mean for a game review to be bombed positively on another platform?!

        Click the link. For a game that's not actually on sale it on the day of the announcement that it would be an exclusive got a shitload of reviews, all thumbs up, all passively aggressively calling out the fact that they aren't at all happy. There's of course a good reason here. It's not the developers or the awesome game's fault that the publishers are dicks, and you can't review publishers.

        Here's a couple:

        Recommended:
        "Best game you'll wait a year to buy. "
        "Perfekt Game its really good. BUT FUCK EPIC STORE."

  • Sounds like this strategy to me... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by flippy ( 62353 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:13PM (#58491722) Homepage

    1) Get competition to reduce their profitability
    2) Wait for value of said competition to drop
    3) Buy competitor

    Maybe I'm just too cynical.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      Steam is the giant in the field right now, not Epic. Even if it was to match Epic on price, it would remain a giant.

      • Re:Sounds like this strategy to me... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by flippy ( 62353 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:25PM (#58491804) Homepage
        True, but you can't argue with the fact that convincing your competition to reduce their income by 18% would be a huge win.

        • It's not reducing their income by 18%, it's reducing their income per sale by 60%.

      • Maybe not, actually. Valve doesn't set their cut arbitrarily, there are tons of costs associated with hosting tens of thousands of games for millions of users (especially since Steam does far more than just host the games for download). Cutting income by 60% may well make Steam unprofitable. Epic doesn't care (yet) because they don't need their store to be profitable: they can support it with Fortnite money until it has a large userbase (on both developer and user side), and then raise prices (plus they als

    • Re:Sounds like this strategy to me... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by barc0001 ( 173002 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:34PM (#58492324)

      There's a fundamental flaw with that plan. Step 3 requires them to be able to buy the competitor.

      Valve is privately held and GabeN is the controlling shareholder. As long as it makes money - even a reduced amount - I doubt he'd sell.

      Epic is pursuing the "throw money at growth even at a loss until we're giants" approach that Amazon took. The problem with that tactic is it only works out well if there is no giant already in the space you're trying to grow in. Valve is already there and they're not being dicks. Epic's going to hit a brick wall with this at some point.

      • I don't think they are throwing money at anything. On the contrary, they are taking the money and infrastructure that they built up via Fortnite, a game which will eventually become old, and transitioning it into a new line of business. Valve did well before steam, but steam is what made them mega profitable. This is a logical pivot for Epic to make, and the right time to do it, while people are still logging into their launcher. I seriously doubt they are loosing much on this, probably exactly the oppo

        • > I seriously doubt they are loosing much on this, probably exactly the opposite.

          I wonder about that, because in order to secure exclusives they would have had to either pay for them or give some crazy concessions to get those exclusives. 2K isn't going to give a smaller online store an exclusive for 6 months out of the goodness of their hearts. Think back when Sony was pushing Blu-Ray as the DVD replacement tech, they didn't just cut licensing costs, they also gave financial concessions (bribes) to th

    • If Steam wants to maintain profitability they should move all those hentai interactive novel games into their own category.
      The site is clogged with that crap.

  • Exclusive squeals (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Exclusive squeals Are what I'm looking for as a gamer girl.

  • They said that publicly? (Score:5, Funny)

    by LaminatorX ( 410794 ) <sabotage@praeca n t a t o r . com> on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:19PM (#58491752) Homepage

    Traditionally, when someone wants to propose to a competing firm that they collude to fix rates they do it over cigars and scotch at the golf club, or perhaps over hookers & cocaine at a trade show after-party (depending on your style).

    • Traditionally, when someone wants to propose to a competing firm that they collude to fix rates they do it over cigars and scotch....

      Taken in isolation, I agree the tweet looks like price fixing.

      But taken as full conversation [twitter.com], it is still risky but looks more like speculation about potential plans, and thoughts about pro-competitive behavior. Thankfully anti-competition laws fall within the "rule of reason" guidelines, so statements like that aren't pulled out of context.

      More from his list:

      • Encourage variable revenue rates between developers and publishers
      • Significantly drop publication "tax", making it easier for both sides of the pi
    • challenging the competitor to match their discounted price is NOT price fixing or collusion and is perfectly acceptable.

  • Doing it for the public good (Score:3)

    by nitehawk214 ( 222219 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:20PM (#58491770)

    Yeah right. sure they are. Epic is just the paragon of gaming community.

  • Pull the other one (Score:5, Interesting)

    by aepervius ( 535155 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:24PM (#58491794)
    Anything coming from epic and in particularly Sweeny ? I consider it highly suspicious and probably a lie or intentionally misleading. After all their stated goal a weeks or two ago was to *displace* steam, not be a concurrent.

  • This comment is for the public (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:24PM (#58491800)

    Epic made their comments for "public consumption" - it's for consumers to hear. Valve (and Steam) are not their intended audience; Epic is making a humble brag about how they give developers more money.

    I'd bet peanuts for walnuts that they WOULDN'T stop trying to get exclusives if Valve dropped their contribution to developers. It's not in Epic's best interest that they do.

    • The problem is 30% on each sale on steam equates to millions of dollars on a title like fortinite. Suddenly an Epic title exclusive to the Epic store can make them more money than it would on steam and a bunch of other online stores that would also want a cut. We're not talking about competitors it's the manufacture cutting out the reseller.

         

      • The problem is 30% on each sale on steam equates to millions of dollars on a title like fortinite.

        Nope. 30% is the starting rate. It goes down as sales increase. A game as popular as Fortnite would be paying far, far less by now.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ChoGGi ( 522069 )

      What he said^ I already have a large Steam library. If Steam gets cheaper I'll just keep sticking with Steam.
      I don't see the point of buying something on a platform with less features (and a year+ roadmap for the features), unless the game I want is locked to that platform.

    • Epic made their comments for "public consumption" - it's for consumers to hear. Valve (and Steam) are not their intended audience; Epic is making a humble brag about how they give developers more money.

      I'd bet peanuts for walnuts that they WOULDN'T stop trying to get exclusives if Valve dropped their contribution to developers. It's not in Epic's best interest that they do.

      Rubbish. Next you're going to tell me Steve Jobs wasn't really against iTunes DRM.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      Epic made their comments for "public consumption" - it's for consumers to hear. Valve (and Steam) are not their intended audience; Epic is making a humble brag about how they give developers more money.

      I'd bet peanuts for walnuts that they WOULDN'T stop trying to get exclusives if Valve dropped their contribution to developers. It's not in Epic's best interest that they do.

      I've read this more as a "and Epic blinked" moment. A way for Epic to start saving face in front of a failure as publishers are realising that exclusivity hurts sales, rather than increases profit. They're making less money because fewer people are buying from Epic than they were from Steam, they might get 18% more per sale, but they are selling far fewer units. If they lose just 1 in 5 sales, that's a loss over all and this sounds like Epic saying that exclusivity has been hurting sales, without admitting

  • Unintended consequences (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:24PM (#58491802)

    Well, we are on record seeing a pretty big spike in piracy afaik. Cracking groups heavily prioritizing epic exclusives, with things like metro cracked in a matter of days in spite of denuvo usually taking a few weeks to crack. And one of the biggest benefits of steam was that it made buying games simple enough that if one had the means to do it, it was just easier to get it on steam.

    And that's just one of the unintended consequences of exclusivity wars we've seen so far. Another may be the permanent tarnish on Epic Games image among the more hardcore and easily monetizable gamer crowd.

    • I know from experience how easy it is to buy games on Steam (or Origin for that matter). How is this more difficult on the Epic game store?

      • Difficulty I don't think is the issue. I'm sure it's easy on Epic store as well. However these stores aren't just stores. They are gaming portals with chatlists, friends, the ability to see what other people are playing right now and join them. I have no desire to run another of those on my computer all the time in the background.

      • Correction after checking the Epic store doesn't accept the most common payment method in my country. Fail. They've just ruled out doing business with people who don't have credit cards.

    • I do intend to buy Metro Exodus when it comes out somewhere else. Man that was a good game. Hear that Deep Silver? There's 60EUR here, $20 more than you charge Americans sitting here on my desk with your name on it.

  • That's sounds like a winner... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by slack_justyb ( 862874 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:33PM (#58491872)

    "Epic would hastily organize a retreat from exclusives (while honoring our partner commitments) and consider putting our own games on Steam."

    Steam would be foolish to concede to those demands from this statement alone. One, those "prior" commitments that they indicate they would honor could extend out into unknown time lengths. It could be that Epic signed up exclusives per game, but it is also equally likely that they have agreements with publishers in terms of "X next games from developer" or "X number of years". Not knowing what those "partner commitments" are is a massive disadvantage. Two, the language of "consider putting our own games..." is massively iffy and makes zero solid groundwork. It instead just leaves the whole thing to the capricious whims of a publisher that's just the most recent example of Zynga meets PC gaming. I wouldn't trust Epic approaching me with a fire extinguisher if I was actively ablaze. They're super focused on "attempting to be the good guy here" and in reality they just need to work on the massive amount of trust issues that they've created for themselves in record time. Which, I might add, this statement from them does zero to alleviate. If anything it just speaks "We're going to continue to be douche bags until you agree to our terms for how to run your business Steam, all the while we'll give zero assurances about any of the platitudes we're offering in this totally non-binding statement."

    More likely the CEO is attempting to improve his company's image in a gaming community...

    And you know what might actually improve that image? Perhaps if Epic focused on delivering games and stopped the rhetoric of "Oh look how much better we are than Steam! We're the best compared to Steam! I bet Steam would love to be us right now!" If you keep just comparing yourself to your competitor and selling your business model on how you aren't like the other guy, at some point people just tune out and roll eyes. That I'm sure sounds great to investors but dang, I've not really seen that as being a big sell in the gaming community. It's like I'm having a flashback to the whole Nintendon't ads.

  • I see this anger over a game title being exclusive to Epic, but Steam has exclusives as well, as does Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft for their respective systems. I don't see anything wrong with a new player comes to town and offering a better market incentive ( lower selling fees ) to a developer and publisher, especially if an indie developer gets to keep more money for themselves in the process.

    • Has Steam bought exclusivity deals though? The Valve games are exclusives because they published those games themselves. And I know some games are only available there because the developers didn't want to bother with anything else. But has Valve gone out and paid people to only publish through Steam?

      Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are hardly shining examples to aspire to. All the bullshit with exclusive games is a huge part of why I've always stayed away from the consoles. I'm all for Steam getting a few ser

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by scourfish ( 573542 )
        What's the pragmatic difference between a first party publisher being exclusive and a third party publisher offering an exclusivity agreement?
    • Epic getting exclusives wasn't as much a problem as when/how the exclusives happened. For some titles, the exclusives were announced after people had made pre-purchases on Steam. Steam did refund the purchases, but it didn't endear potential customers to Epic. Generally people do not like change and moving to a new games platform makes them hesitant. Epic Game Store does not yet have all the features of Steam so it's a non-starter for some people. Also moving to Epic doesn't provide benefit to most consumer

  • Right... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cmdr_klarg ( 629569 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @04:51PM (#58492006)

    It's Borderlands 3 that is going to be an Epic Games exclusive for 6 months. Not that it will affect me at all; I almost never buy full priced games (the last one was actually Borderlands 2, but I was also using a gift card at the time). I wait until games are marked down at least 50%. I do want to play Borderlands 3, but it might be well over a year after release for me to pull the trigger on it. I will wait until it gets to Steam. I put up with Origin due to the Mass Effect games, and GOG is also a good place to find older games that will work on Win10. I want nothing to do with Epic Game Store.

    This whole exclusivity bruhaha is just Epic muscling in to Steam's business with Forenite cash instead of competing by making a better store.

    • What the fuck makes it "Steam's business"? It's a fucking open market. Steam has no right to nearly monopolize it.

    • It's Borderlands 3 that is going to be an Epic Games exclusive for 6 months.

      Indeed and aside from the fact I can't spell "sequel" at 1am it's kind of hard to review bomb a game that doesn't have a review page. Which is why Borderlands, Borderlands 2, and Tales from the Borderlands have been review bombed.

  • What's in it for me? (Score:3)

    by neoRUR ( 674398 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:34PM (#58492326)

    Well I go to Epic to download the free games they give out every 2 weeks, and they are good games and they are Free.
    I have not bought a game on Epic, I have many on Steam. The prices are all still high on Epic and there are no Indy games there.

    As I recall Epic put the store up because they didn't want to sell fortnight on the Apple or Android store or anywhere else so they can keep more money, so they opened their own store.

    But the prices of games are not going down on Steam or Epic, so why do I care if the devs keep more money? Or if they are exclusive on a store front?
    We will have to see how long the lower fee lasts when Epic start putting in more functionality they need to support for the Dev's games and players.

    But I wouldn't count Epic out, they are in this for the Long Run. And have plans to make fortnight more like a Virtual second life world.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ChoGGi ( 522069 )

      Well I go to Epic to download the free games they give out every 2 weeks, and they are good games and they are Free.

      Same here, I figure the devs get a little chunk and Epic gets jack :)

    • Maybe nothing directly, but I would much rather have all that extra money going to the developers than Valve. The developers can use it to fund more games that I want to play. The margins for developers will be higher so they can make more niche games that wouldn't have been profitable before, or do more with games that they would normally have to cut out to save costs. Maybe games will even sell for cheaper because they can still make a profit and want to undercut competing games.

  • I don't mind store exclusives, but I hate having to install a store software client that runs in the background all the time, like Steam and that lousy Ubisoft thing do.

  • Well, they were a bit maybe, they adjusted their pricing scheme a little and that was it.
    If they were really concerned, wouldn't we be seeing a 'price war' between epic and valve?
    Valve lowering their cut to 10%, then epic to 8% etc.

  • Gamers are complaining because Borderlands 3 will be exclusive to Epic for six month, when Steam itself was founded on the arm-twisting exclusivity of Half-Life 2 !

    You wanted to play Half-Life 2 ? You had no choice other than to pay Steam. And end up not owning your copy of the game.

    Another dose of Irony is that only console gamers can own a legal copy of Half-Life 2, no PC gamer can.

    • Nope. The concept of online purchases were funded that way. Those grew into what is now a service market place. Steam did not split the gaming community in any way. Although when Steam launcher people complained about functionality losses from brick and mortar, but Steam addressed those quite quickly (returns, gifts, etc)

      Also Steam was the developer and publisher of HalfLife 2. You'll note that no one gave a shit about Fortnite being an exclusive.

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