Google Maps Deterring Outback Tourists, Say Small Firms (bbc.com) 123
Tourism operators in Australia claim inaccuracies in Google Maps are deterring potential visitors, by making remote attractions appear further away than they actually are. From a report: The Queensland government in north-east Australia has complained to Google, which says it will look into the issue. Firms looking to promote their small towns as remote tourist destinations say Google Maps inflates travel times. Outback businesses say errors in the map app can add hours to a journey. "People aren't coming to places because they think it takes too long, or they're missing opportunities to refuel and they're getting sent off on another road that has no fuel [outlets]," Robyn Mackenzie, of the Eromanga Natural History Museum, told national broadcaster ABC. "People will get frightened of travelling in the outback, because they don't have any confidence in the mapping," the general manager of the small town museum added.
Tourism Destroys Culture and Wildlife. (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:Tourism Destroys Culture and Wildlife. (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously though, nobody should be relying on Google Maps to plan a trip somewhere like the Outback. Outback steakhouse, sure. A place where taking a wrong turn or getting stranded could be fatal? Ask a human being. Google warns people when a store's operating hours may be different because of holidays, it would seem that a warning when traveling through the middle of freaking nowhere is warranted. "Consult local resources before making this trip or you may die." "Fragile ecosystem - do not deviate from marked paths!" "Seasonal access only - conditions out of season may be fatal."
Re:Tourism Destroys Culture and Wildlife. (Score:5, Informative)
Same for driving through the US's deserts and mountain ranges. Even the interstates have some danger; they will warn you with things like "last fuel / cell reception for 80 miles".
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Same for driving through the US's deserts and mountain ranges. Even the interstates have some danger; they will warn you with things like "last fuel / cell reception for 80 miles".
You're under-estimating the vastness of Australia here comparing it to the relatively populous US. No fuel for 200 KM (130 miles) isn't just a thing, it's normal for many parts of Australia's highways. In the US it would be hard to find a place where you could drive for 200 KM and not find another town. I'm sure there are a few places but in Australia those places are everywhere. Australia is a country approximately the same size as the continental US with only 23 million people, almost all of whom live on
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It's clear the democrats would rather keep the government shut down over 5 billion dollars.
I can understand why when they have people like you blindly supporting them.
I remember several almost government shutdowns where Obama wouldn't sign a budget if something was left out of it. Trump is doing the same thing here, just the republican congress was quicker to fold. (Granted that is easier to stand strong when - regardless of who is in power - the media and people like you will always blame the republicans
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It's clear the democrats would rather keep the government shut down over 5 billion dollars.
Yeah and they should. They weren't elected to be Trump's toadies. Also, Democrats have already passed the same budget to reopen the government that the Senate unanimously approved last year when the GOP controlled everything. The GOP owns this not the Democrats.
I can understand why when they have people like you blindly supporting them.
Yeah, how dare they follow the will of the voters who elected them. Elections have conseqiences and this is one of them.
I remember several almost government shutdowns where Obama wouldn't sign a budget if something was left out of it. Trump is doing the same thing here, just the republican congress was quicker to fold. (Granted that is easier to stand strong when - regardless of who is in power - the media and people like you will always blame the republicans.)
You mean when we blame the person who said this on national television?
So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it. The last time you shut it down, it didn’t work. I will take the mantle of shutting it down.
Sorry, but this is the Trump shutdown and the majority of A
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It's also pretty funny that this guy seems to think we forgot that Trump stated on national television that he owned the shitdown and wasn't gonna blame the Democrats.
I'm sure there are some "alternative facts" to explain that away.
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The republicans tried that when Obama was in office. He rightly said no because then he would lose leverage.
Same here.
The majority of Americans don't know about the government shutdown. And most people that know about the shutdown here it framed by the media or late night comedians as Trumps fault. The fact that only half blame him is remarkable progress (compared to the percentage that blamed Republicans for past shutdowns). Looks like his tweeting does make a difference.
At the end of the day, the demo
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Sorry, but your spin and alternative facts don't change this statement:
So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I’m not going to blame you for it. The last time you shut it down, it didn’t work. I will take the mantle of shutting it down.
The toddler owns this completely.
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The majority of Americans don't know about the government shutdown.
This is the dumbest thing you've claimed so far. [citation needed]
At the end of the day, the democrats can end this by agreeing to 1/4 of the money they had agreed to spend last year. They aren't because they want to look big and are use to controlling the narrative.
They could but why would they? Toddler has no leverage. It's always funny when Republicans demand bipartisanship but what they really want is that the Democrats give them everything and get nothing in return. Your team lost the House and Pelosi is only standing for what the voters of America wanted. Also, if all this border money was so inpirtamt why didn't he demand the GOP give it to him in either the 2017 or 2018 budgets?
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I haven't forgotten. He was saying he would take the hit but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't swing back.
And there was context to that line, in any case. Te democrats where telling him that he had to do whatever they said because he would be blamed for the shutdown. The fact that they are that flamboyant to the point of bragging that they control the media narrative should be enough to give you some concern (it won't though).
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They could but why would they? Toddler has no leverage
Exactly why he knows the democrats are full of shit when they say they will seriously consider it after he passes their budget. As you said, the democrats only cross the aisle if there is leverage forcing them too
Also, if all this border money was so inpirtamt why didn't he demand the GOP give it to him in either the 2017 or 2018 budgets?
Because he was dumb enough to believe twice that the discussions would happen as promised after we got through the impending shutdown warning. He isn't dumb enough to fall for it a third time with the democrats in power.
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At the end of the day, the democrats can end this by agreeing to 1/4 of the money they had agreed to spend last year. They aren't because they want to look big and are use to controlling the narrative.
Dude, isn't is astonishing that no one in US realizes that a two party system is not more democratic, more advanced, more flexible, more efficient, more responsible, than a one party system, e.g. in China?
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And the consequence of this election is that the government will remain shutdown for an extended time (something most on the right see as good to begin with), and then Trump will get his wall. Or do you actually believe congressional Democrats are going to best Trump in a challenge of petty childishness and ego? I mean, I have a very low opinion of them, but more ego-driving petty childishness than Trump? Not a chance.
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What leverage does he have to force them to give in? If he had any leverage he'd be asking for the full $25 billion he was offered last year. That he's asking for substantially less and still hasn't gotten it shows he's the cuck in this fight. Nancy's owning him and the majority of Americans are on the Democrats' side.
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majority of Americans are on the Democrats' side.
Just like the media claimed in the 2016 election, right?
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He can go forever without being hurt by the government shutdown. Meanwhile, (almost) all the government employees who aren't getting a paycheck vote Democrat. And if something goes wrong with EBT payments? Yowza.
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The fact that so many rely on EBT payments speaks to an inherent rot with the US population.
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Hahahaha this is epic: https://twitter.com/PressSec/s... [twitter.com] Leverage is where you find it.
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They can totally drop the "Natural" in the name and appeal to otaku instead.
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Shee-it... (Score:2)
Ah'll visit that shit; just gotta lemme bring guns - Ah've seen Mad Max.
-Likely no one anywhere
Story doesn't seem up to date (Score:5, Informative)
In TFA it states
In one case, the journey time from Birdsville, on the Queensland border, up to the Western Star Hotel in Windorah, in the centre of the state, was estimated to be close to 11 hours by Google Maps.
After claims the time was inaccurate, Google changed the estimated time to about 7 hours and 45 minutes. But locals say the drive is closer to four hours with no stops.
I just plotted out the same route in google maps and it told me 4 hours and 22 minutes. So either the story is wrong or google has been fixing things.
But it makes me wonder* about people estimating times. Its a 380km journey and at 100km/hr that puts it at the 4 hour mark. I can't explain where 7 or 11 hours comes from,
*Cue Stairways to Heaven
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The logical conclusion is that there's some criteria about the average speed you can legally/safely travel on these routes, and that data is inaccurate. Combined with inaccurate details about fuel stops, it could be incompetence, it could be malicious.
I assume that google estimates time by the posted speed limit. Leaving driving conditions aside I can't see how the went form 11 to 4 hours. The posted limits would not have changed that much in such a short time.
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I believe that they also estimate based on past travel times, from actual driver location data. This could include drivers who made several random long stops, but either not long enough to count as a break in driving or misinterpreted.
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Leaving driving conditions aside I can't see how the went form 11 to 4 hours. The posted limits would not have changed that much in such a short time.
Temporary road closure perhaps? There don't seem to be many options for detours, and maybe Google's algorithm isn't smart enough to figure out that they would have been better off waiting it out than trying to go around it.
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In TFA it states
In one case, the journey time from Birdsville, on the Queensland border, up to the Western Star Hotel in Windorah, in the centre of the state, was estimated to be close to 11 hours by Google Maps. After claims the time was inaccurate, Google changed the estimated time to about 7 hours and 45 minutes. But locals say the drive is closer to four hours with no stops.
I just plotted out the same route in google maps and it told me 4 hours and 22 minutes. So either the story is wrong or google has been fixing things.
But it makes me wonder* about people estimating times. Its a 380km journey and at 100km/hr that puts it at the 4 hour mark. I can't explain where 7 or 11 hours comes from,
*Cue Stairways to Heaven
To be fair to Google, with locals experienced in navigating and driving in the Outback it might be 4 hours. To a tourist in a rental car who has never been to the area before, may not be accustomed to road conditions (while I am sure there are some paved roads in the Outback I would assume there are also quite a few unpaved roads as well), and may take several stops out of an abundance of caution it might be a 6-7 hour drive. Personally I've heard enough stories that breaking down/running out of gas would
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In TFA it states
In one case, the journey time from Birdsville, on the Queensland border, up to the Western Star Hotel in Windorah, in the centre of the state, was estimated to be close to 11 hours by Google Maps.
After claims the time was inaccurate, Google changed the estimated time to about 7 hours and 45 minutes. But locals say the drive is closer to four hours with no stops.
I just plotted out the same route in google maps and it told me 4 hours and 22 minutes. So either the story is wrong or google has been fixing things.
But it makes me wonder* about people estimating times. Its a 380km journey and at 100km/hr that puts it at the 4 hour mark. I can't explain where 7 or 11 hours comes from,
*Cue Stairways to Heaven
To be fair to Google, with locals experienced in navigating and driving in the Outback it might be 4 hours. To a tourist in a rental car who has never been to the area before, may not be accustomed to road conditions (while I am sure there are some paved roads in the Outback I would assume there are also quite a few unpaved roads as well), and may take several stops out of an abundance of caution it might be a 6-7 hour drive. Personally I've heard enough stories that breaking down/running out of gas would be a concern to me in that area, especially if it is sparsely traveled.
I can see tourists stopping along the way and being cautious of road conditions and taking longer than google estimates but it's googles estimates that are varying, not the reported times by tourists (which I can't see how google can know).
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And if only a small number of people take the trip, those numbers probably have a wide standard deviation, because some people drive like Mad Max and some drive like student drivers. And without enough people, you also can't tell whether the problem is a scared driver or an actual traffic backup.
Of course, a scared driver can create an actual traffic backup at any time, depending on how easy it is to pass, which compounds the problem.
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We have a similar kind of localized traffic jam in the rural south (U.S.) caused by combines.
That said, if you can't get around it, does it really matter whether the backup was caused by one vehicle or actual congestion? :-)
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Re:Story doesn't seem up to date (Score:5, Interesting)
Could be that road conditions do not let you travel at 100KM on average.
So most likely they think it was a road where 100KM was not possible. Here [google.com] a 450KM trip that would take 12.5 hours. 70KM more added 8 hours travel time.
That actually could be the what is going on. The locals are taking route 14 in 4 hours, but the tourists are being directed along route 12 and 83 for what ever reason and take 12 hours. And I compared apples to oranges.
One possible reason is that the locals are geared up for long distance driving with long range fuel tanks, but rental cars don't have them, so the locals can safely do a straight shot along a route with limited fuel stops and the tourists are being directed to the route that has more fuel stops that suit their shorter range tanks.
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Could be that road conditions do not let you travel at 100KM on average.
So most likely they think it was a road where 100KM was not possible. Here [google.com] a 450KM trip that would take 12.5 hours. 70KM more added 8 hours travel time.
That actually could be the what is going on. The locals are taking route 14 in 4 hours, but the tourists are being directed along route 12 and 83 for what ever reason and take 12 hours. And I compared apples to oranges.
One possible reason is that the locals are geared up for long distance driving with long range fuel tanks, but rental cars don't have them, so the locals can safely do a straight shot along a route with limited fuel stops and the tourists are being directed to the route that has more fuel stops that suit their shorter range tanks.
That route looks like it goes across a section of unsealed road... Going 30 KPH would risk killing most vehicles on those rutted tracks, even a modded Land Cruiser would be plodding along. You'd be proper daft to be taking a rental Corolla on it.
Also, a lot of rental car agreements in Australia prohibit taking cars far outside metropolitan areas. Certainly most of the cheap ones (stop laughing, I mean cheap for Australia) and doubly so around Perth.
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You'd be proper daft to be taking a rental Corolla on it.
That's exactly what I did. Shitty car but even a Corolla can handle a smooth unsealed surface.
It's gravel or sand but it's not bumpy, it just isn't sealed. I get bigger potholes in the village I live in.
60mph is perfectly safe, anybody doing 30kph isn't safe to drive anywhere.
Also, a lot of rental car agreements in Australia prohibit taking cars far outside metropolitan areas. Certainly most of the cheap ones (stop laughing, I mean cheap for Australia)
Mine was 'insured only in NSW' but I got them to add South Australia too, so that I could get nearer to Adelaide. They knew I was heading inland, they had no problem with it, and it was as cheap as I could find in Sydney.
Re:Story doesn't seem up to date (Score:4, Insightful)
Its a 380km journey
For your search it is. Who is to say that when they made the search they got the same result? Now none of this is to say that Google is at "fault" but when a main road is closed in the outback you can easily change a route that adds hundreds of km to a journey. Likewise it can put you on a shitty dirt track that drops you down to 50km / hour.
Last time I traveled through Far North Queensland Google took me off the highway and through Woodleigh Station. It cut 60km from my trip but at one point the road completely ceased to exist making the trip very slow and a short time later I was standing for 20min while 200 cattle were being herded around us and a cattledog was biting at my tires. We got to where we were going well over an hour later than the other car which left at the same time.
Was Google at "fault"? No idea. Maybe the road was listed as closed, maybe the previous driver through the station raced through it at 100km/h and Google recorded the road as being faster. Maybe everyone else pulled over due to a road train passing on the highway and Google assumed there was an accident. Point is, from 4 hours to 7 hours is less than double the time and far worse than that does happen.
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100km/h seems optimistic for this road: https://goo.gl/maps/5u32Vbybed... [goo.gl]
I'm no expert by in an ordinary car doing safe speeds on an unpaved gravel road I'd think half that, maybe 50 kph, is more reasonable.
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100km/h seems optimistic for this road: https://goo.gl/maps/5u32Vbybed... [goo.gl]
I'm no expert by in an ordinary car doing safe speeds on an unpaved gravel road I'd think half that, maybe 50 kph, is more reasonable.
You could easily do 100k on a road like that. Although once when I got to about 140k on a dirt road the car slowly started fish-tailing. I backed off to 100k and it was all good.
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I dunno, seems perfectly safe to me!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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There could be lot of sources of error. Maybe Google doesn't know it a 100 km/h and to be safe defaults to say 50 km/h for roads it has no information on. Maybe it's a map routing issue. In either case, it is good for areas to stay on top of these things.
Just for kicks, I too google'd this place.
https://www.couriermail.com.au... [couriermail.com.au]
BirdsVille Development Rd is what you take to get the nice 4 hour drive. But read the article. It suggest keeping a speed of 80 km/h and watch out for rocks...
I don't think it's irre
Re: OpenStreetMap also estimates 7h (Score:3)
You can see here that OpenStreetMap reports a similar time [openstreetmap.org]: 7h25, for 532km, passing via a very long detour.
Most likely, the router doesn't like the direct road, because part of it is tagged "unpaved", and that's estimated to around 20km/h.
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I did this drive last month: https://www.google.com/maps?ll... [google.com]
It didn't take 14 hours. It didn't take anywhere near 14 hours, even though I stopped and got out of the car a few times, stopped to take photographs a few times, encountered a sandstorm;
Google's time calculations in Australia are fucked up.
Because google makes it look to far? (Score:2)
From the article:
"In one case, the journey time from Birdsville, on the Queensland border, up to the Western Star Hotel in Windorah, in the centre of the state, was estimated to be close to 11 hours by Google Maps.
After claims the time was inaccurate, Google changed the estimated time to about 7 hours and 45 minutes. But locals say the drive is closer to four hours with no stops."
OK so yes the original and even updated distance are a potentially bit long for a tank of gas while the four hours is not bad (ar
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The point is the locals are quite right. Google shouldn't be estimating for tourists, they should be giving the time to destination assuming a direct path with no stops. Google shouldn't be making assumptions about your diet or the diet of your car.
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Google maps never include fuel or rest or selfie stops, that would be ridiculous. Probably just some of the map data was incorrect and either caused a different route to be suggested or had wrong speed limits for example. Even if the limits were correct, they also don't assume you'd be speeding, which of course many are doing.
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Oh I agree, and I misread your post so ignore mine :-)
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A dingo ate my baby! (Score:1)
I think it's all the dingoes, spiders and drop-bears that are scaring away all the tourists!
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Doesn't matter (Score:2)
There's no cellphone coverage there anyway, so you can't get at the wrong info.
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In the BG era ... (Score:2)
Help build better, verified sources that will help ALL search engines. It will keep them on their toes
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BBC Dupe (Score:1)
Proper article https://www.abc.net.au/news/20... [abc.net.au]
Likely Non-Issue (Score:1)
1) Trip times are a combination of historical trip times and current traffic conditions. Was this purported 11 hour trip time during a time of bad traffic?
2) If there is no (cell) data reception, historical and current times don't get set. Default times for road segments are often extremely high.
3) There's an option to "avoid unpaved roads". Presumably in the Outback there ar
Look at Birdsville on Google Maps (Score:2)
It's not the distance nor the time that's keeping people from visiting, it's that there is nothing there. Sorry.
Don't rely on Google Maps in the outback (Score:2)
Anyone planning to travel in Australia off the major highways needs to do more researc
Re:Sure, blame google (Score:5, Insightful)
I think Google is doing something similar to what the Interstate did with America.
Older roads use to go into small towns, where drivers will fill up, have a meal, check out a little of the local culture. Then they put in the interstate system, which connected big cities together, and drive by small towns, sometimes without an exit to them. With the promise of a fast MPH speed on the road, you can get from Point A to Point B much faster, but the small towns have been left out and are now shadows of their former self.
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I think Google is doing something similar to what the Interstate did with America.
Older roads use to go into small towns, where drivers will fill up, have a meal, check out a little of the local culture. Then they put in the interstate system, which connected big cities together, and drive by small towns, sometimes without an exit to them. With the promise of a fast MPH speed on the road, you can get from Point A to Point B much faster, but the small towns have been left out and are now shadows of their former self.
That's exactly what happened to Radiator Springs on route 66 when I-40 came through.
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I understood that reference.
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That's all true - but there was also tremendous opposition to some of the routes existing at all. Which meant that the road was rerouted out of town, cutting off what would otherwise have been much better local access. That they ended up doing in some cases was cutting off their nose to spite their face.
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Australia has been doing this for years as well. The Bruce Highway still has a traffic light on it but they've put a lot of effort into actually bypassing the towns. A trip from Sydney to Brisbane now takes a tad over 10 hours. It used to take 16 hours.