Tesla Short Sellers Actually Made Over $1 Billion After Musk's Taking-Private Tweet (fortune.com) 329
An anonymous reader quotes Fortune:
Investors betting that Tesla stock will lose value -- so-called "shorts" -- have made $1.2 billion since CEO Elon Musk first tweeted about taking the company private. Much of that gain came on Friday, after the New York Times published a revealing, emotional interview with Musk that drove Tesla stock down nearly 9%. The tally comes from a report released Friday by stock analytics firm S3 Partners. The Friday collapse helped reverse a price spike after Musk's August 7 Tweet saying he was "considering taking Tesla private at $420," about 18% higher than the stock's market value at the time.
According to S3, the subsequent surge in Tesla stock cost short positions $1.3 billion. But soon after, it became clear that Musk had exaggerated the certainty of his funding, and the SEC began a probe of his statements, driving the stock back down. On Friday, the Times interview with Musk detailed his 120-hour work weeks, lack of social life, and reliance on Ambien to sleep. That sent the stock down 9% in one day, for a total drop of 19% over 10 days. That gave $2.5 billion back to the shorts, for a net gain of $1.2 billion since Musk's going-private tweet.
Tesla remains the most-shorted stock on the American stock exchanges, and the researchers note that only 4% of shorts have actually cashed in these on-paper gains.
According to S3, the subsequent surge in Tesla stock cost short positions $1.3 billion. But soon after, it became clear that Musk had exaggerated the certainty of his funding, and the SEC began a probe of his statements, driving the stock back down. On Friday, the Times interview with Musk detailed his 120-hour work weeks, lack of social life, and reliance on Ambien to sleep. That sent the stock down 9% in one day, for a total drop of 19% over 10 days. That gave $2.5 billion back to the shorts, for a net gain of $1.2 billion since Musk's going-private tweet.
Tesla remains the most-shorted stock on the American stock exchanges, and the researchers note that only 4% of shorts have actually cashed in these on-paper gains.
Only If They Covered (Score:5, Interesting)
Has the short interest in Tesla decreased? If so, then shorts have cashed out, having a much better position than a week ago. But I'm not under the impression that the shorts have been exiting. It seems that there is a large contingent that really expects Tesla to outright fail, and they want to ride the stock down to zero.
There is a contingent that deeply wants to see Tesla fail because they view it as part of the environmental movement, and they see the whole movement as a leftist attack on free enterprise and their way of life. A company like Tesla being successful is counter to their worldview, and they desperately want to see electric cars fail. I have no evidence to prove that there's a connection to the Tesla shorts, but I suspect there is. I suppose that's part of the reason I so desperately want to see the shorts get bankrupted.
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Re:Only If They Covered (Score:5, Insightful)
Has the short interest in Tesla decreased? If so, then shorts have cashed out, having a much better position than a week ago. But I'm not under the impression that the shorts have been exiting. It seems that there is a large contingent that really expects Tesla to outright fail, and they want to ride the stock down to zero.
There is a contingent that deeply wants to see Tesla fail because they view it as part of the environmental movement, and they see the whole movement as a leftist attack on free enterprise and their way of life. A company like Tesla being successful is counter to their worldview, and they desperately want to see electric cars fail. I have no evidence to prove that there's a connection to the Tesla shorts, but I suspect there is. I suppose that's part of the reason I so desperately want to see the shorts get bankrupted.
It's nothing that conspiratorial. Tesla [yahoo.com] has a bigger market cap than GM [yahoo.com]. I mean Tesla has a cooler brand, and they're currently dominating the EV market, but GM builds almost 100x as many cars, has about 15x the revenue (not sure how that math works), and has an operating income almost as large as Tesla's total revenue.
Sure Tesla has some serious potential around self driving cars and EV, but so does GM.
The idea that Tesla is worth more is just plain dumb. People are pricing it like an Apple or a Google, but car companies don't get those giant semi-monopolies that generate outrageous profits the way tech companies do. Tesla becoming as big as GM is their potential, but there's a good chance they won't reach that potential.
I don't trade stocks, but I can understand why people would short Tesla, it can't really go any higher and you have to think as some point it's going to go down.
Re:Only If They Covered (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, Tesla is priced like a tech company. Or more specifically, it's priced like a growth company. Automakers are like the weather: the best forecast for tomorrow is that it will be the same as today. Sometimes they do better, sometimes the do worse, but people don't generally expect them to make huge changes in their market share.
Tesla is growing rapidly. While traditional auto makers are constrained by sales, as evidenced by factories operating below capacity and massive marketing campaigns, Tesla is constrained by manufacturing, as evidenced by massive reservations and no significant marketing efforts.
Tesla also has their energy business, which is also constrained by capacity. They've proven the value of utility-scale battery storage in Australia and elsewhere. The potential growth here is huge.
The Tesla solar business is less clear. Personally I think the visual stigma with traditional solar panels has passed as home solar has become more common, so most people who want solar are happy with regular panels. Outside of historical districts and the like, I'm not sure how large their solar roof market will prove to be once they reach full production.
But back to cars, they're looking at a production rate of 500,000 Model 3s next year. They're also going to be starting production of the Semi and announcing the pickup and Model Y next year. Their growth could easily reach over a million vehicles a year as quickly as they can build the factories, probably two million or more.
And don't ignore their Supercharger network. Tesla is the only option for road trips. Independent charging networks are focusing on the higher-density markets (i.e., California), though that may improve a bit over the next decade, but without support from auto manufacturers, they price charging well above what Tesla charges. In short, most people are happy buying an electric car as a second vehicle, but only consider Tesla if looking for an electric vehicle as their first car.
I don't see any other manufacturer providing serious competition for Tesla in the next five years, which will let them continue to grow rapidly to become a major player in the industry.
The short story seems to boil down to "Elon Musk is lying about Tesla being profitable for Q3 and Q4 this year." If they are profitable, then the story that they're going to run out of cash before being able to expand as described above falls apart.
Re: Only If They Covered (Score:4, Insightful)
Let me be the first to thank (Score:5, Funny)
both the short sellers and the flip speculators for their contribution to improving society. If enough people dedicate their lives to short term stock market speculation, most of the world's pressing problems will soon be a thing of the past.
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The shorts are literally the only group who has an economic interest in scrutinizing an asset.
That's a total bullshit statement.
Any investor has an interest in doing that, because even if you assume that in general the economy will go up, so long is always profitable, it doesn't mean that a) this specific company is not bancrupt next year or b) it isn't growing slower than some other stock that you could put your money in or c) it isn't growing slower than the inflation rate.
Without this kind of rigor you get more money being thrown at fantastic enterprises like Theranos.
Says who?
Nobody cares that they are holding lemons as long as the price keeps rising.
But the price doesn't rise by magic. Plus, see above. Also, opportunity costs.
short sellers are very much beneficial to the marketâ(TM)s well-being and by extension our resource allocation as a society.
Short sellers have their place.
Speculat
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That is all fantastic layman common sense argumentation that is so distant from the lived reality we could put it in the science fiction section of Slashdot. The fact that longs are perpetually euphoric about whatever it is they longing to the point that investment bankers have to account for a certain amount o
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The amount of regulation related to short selling is quite hef
"4% of shorts have cashed in these paper gains" (Score:5, Insightful)
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Tesla's 52-week high was $389. As of Friday's close it was at $305; which means it is more like 22% off its all time high.
Which means your "15%" is only off by 50% or so.
Musk is his own worst enemy (Score:3)
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Like that time when he calls a cave diver a pedo for ridiculing his submersible we saw people leaping to justify it.
Please show me a single post where someone defended his language.
I'm willing to be you saw the topic: "pedo cave diver", saw a positive post, and then made up your own narrative about it.
Re: Musk is his own worst enemy (Score:2)
Zero sum game (Score:2)
If somebody loses 1B, somebody else is gaining it.
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ask your nerd god why can't he manage
Money != brains. If you can't get rich by running an unregulated bank, one of your parents was not a primate.
In your opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
What Musk did over Twitter is first and foremost unbecoming of a CEO and is outright manipulation of the stock price.
In your opinion.
That's the problem with all the Tesla news nowadays - there's actually very little going on, what we see in the media is opinion dressed up as news. And if it's bad, the shorts will run with it.
(source [electrek.co])
Really, there's nothing in the news anyone can trust about Tesla nowadays. After the NYT interview I saw these competing headlines:
"Musk says Tesla had an excruciating year, and the worst is yet to come" (one source, among many [marketwatch.com])
"Musk says Tesla had an excruciating year, and the worst is over" (one source, among many [engadget.com])
Which of these is an accurate portrayal of Tesla's future?
Don't believe any of it. Given the timeline above, it's really hard to see how Musk could be charged with a crime - SEC is civil, not criminal, the FBI would have to get involved for that. It's also hard to see how the SEC could impose a fine. There *might* be an issue with the exact definition of "secured", but it's a) moot, b) can be argued either way, and c) it took the SEC 5 years to bring down [Theranos CEO] Elisabeth Holmes for much more severe problems, they aren't likely to move any faster with Tesla. Five years from now we can worry whether this has made any difference to Tesla.
It's clear that Tesla only has to weather the next 4 months or so, and then be clear of all this nonsense.
Until then, just ignore the rabble - it's only noise anyway.
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Re:In your opinion (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, let's see.
Says Musk, and noone else.
Musk has been trying desperately to pump his stock, you mean. Instead of, you know, actually doing the required work.
Says Musk, post the SEC investigation start. The board members said the opposite.
Says Musk, and no one else.
After lacing himself up with a drug cocktail, and coordinating it with nobody.
And in the weeks after, Musk goes scrambling to find "investors" who would backdate his Twitter lies, so to avoid SEC trouble.
This becomes known, stock crashes.
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... (source [electrek.co]) ...
The bullet points you pulled from that “source” are just requotes of Musk’s after-the-fact explanation regarding his “going private” tweet. It’ll certainly satisfy the Kool-aid drinkers, but the article doesn’t provide any sort of independent confirmation of anything Musk said. In fact, it seemed to me the article writer wasn’t entirely convinced regarding some of those points.
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Hey, I'm pretty skeptical of TSLA. But A) general assembly of something that is subsequently gonna go on dirty, dirty roads doesn't belong in a clean room, (hell, we don't build circuit board assemblies in clean rooms) and B) Sprung buildings are really cool and are not what I'd call a tent. :P
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Re:In your opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
He basically needs a COO for Tesla much like he had one at SpaceX (Gwynne Shotwell). Someone with industry experience who can handle most of the day to day affairs of the business.
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What do you mean by this? Hydrogen cars are electric cars.
Do you mean:
1. We need to go to FCEVs (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles) OR
2. We need to go to B(Battery)EVs and FCEVs.
Hydrogen is not viable. It won't reduce CO2 emissions without some new breakthroughs. It requires a massive sudden investment in infrastructure, whereas most of the infrastructure for BEVs already exists (the electrical grid) and can be expanded on an as-needed basis.
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EVs are not as green as public transport, but they are certainly greener than individual ICE vehicles. Thank the Koch Brothers for the lack of public transport in the USA [yes, they are putting money into campaigns to oppose public transport projects.]
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1. Driving an ICE car (least green)
2. Driving an electric car
3. Taking the bus
4. Biking / walking
5. Video conference / VR
6. Hikikomori / NEET
7. Killing yourself
And of course...
8. Killing other people (most green)
So the Koch Brothers are pretty green all things considered, they're quite happy to help with #7 and #8.
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Re:It Doesn't Matter (Score:5, Informative)
It's clear that he didn't have a buyer to bring the firm public.
Doesn't need one. The company is already public.
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Re:Bad Math (Score:5, Informative)
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I never understood why people are so entranced by Musk.
Entrancement is irrational by definition. He has a big personality, talks about big things people like to dream about, and makes flashy things happen by splashing around lots of OPM that he gets them to willingly hand over by combinations of the above. Confirmation bias supports the belief that he's actually doing amazing things. But stripped down to brass tacks, the emperor has no clothes. It was clear the music would have to stop at some point, but I'm gratified it's happening as soon as it is.
(The NY
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Re:Never understood the admiration (Score:5, Insightful)
He's not just "shooting military and communication satellites to LEO". He's doing that in such a way that it is breaking up the entrenched, fossilized existing launch providers, most notably ULA, Arianespace, and the Russians. That by itself is a service to the world. His other grandiose plans, it is too early to judge. Tesla, whether it survives or not, seems to have at least set an expectation for EVs and the infrastructure to support them which is pushing the other automakers to compete, and not just build bigger and bigger pickup trucks which cost more than a loaded up Tesla Model 3.
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It's a service to the world that the world can now add even more crap to the orbital junkyard without any plan to clean it up except to wait on gravity to do its thing?
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The Dragon resupply spacecraft that go to the ISS via Falcon 9 come back to earth, carrying items back for NASA.
The Comsats going to geosynchronous orbit have end-of-life disposal processes to put them into graveyard orbits where they won't cause any trouble.
The DOD satellites, they do their own DOD thing.
Musk's Tesla Roadster launched on the Falcon Heavy is way past earth orbit in interplanetary space out with the asteroids.
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The Comsats going to geosynchronous orbit have end-of-life disposal processes to put them into graveyard orbits where they won't cause any trouble.
"... except to wait on gravity to do it's thing", I seem to recall writing. The graveyard orbit is a can kicked down the road that's going to land on our descendants' heads.
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that's going to land on our descendants' heads.
Metaphorically, perhaps. Literally, that's rather implausible without violating the laws of physics.
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wait on gravity to do its thing?
Air, really.
Gravity isn't bringing those satellites back down once they're in a stable orbit.
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Because leaving this planet is essential for the long term survival of humanity.
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Now I don't dispute that SpaceX is doing cool stuff, but the idea that it'll get us to self-sustaining Mars colonies is far fetched, technically, economically or politically.
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Re:Never understood the admiration (Score:4, Insightful)
But let me ask you a question: why DO YOU CARE that the "entrenched, fossilized launch services" exist? Does it affect you in any way that the military or communication companies save a bit on money on a launch?
It's not just military and communication. Highly capable and cheap launch vehicles are perhaps the most important step on the path to cheaper and more capable scientific probes and space-based telescopes, since they will allow for greater capabilities simultaneously with lesser engineering effort. I.e., they would cheapen both the launches and the payload designs. For people interested in natural sciences, this is a rather tempting prospect, since the funding of scientific missions isn't unlimited.
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:5, Interesting)
I never understood why people are so entranced by Musk.
Because he promised things we all thought were ridiculous, at the time, and has delivered in spades. I'm astounded at what he has achieved in such a short time.
What I don't get is all the idiots who absolutely hate his guts. I mean, I understand that some humans have an innate desire to despise anyone who is doing well ... but I don't understand WHY that desire exists.
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Crab mentality is real.
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What I don't get is all the idiots who absolutely hate his guts. I mean, I understand that some humans have an innate desire to despise anyone who is doing well ... but I don't understand WHY that desire exists.
Your framing of the phenomenon might have something to do with your inability to understand it.
I don't personally know anyone who hates the punk, but I do know a lot of people who think poorly of him because he's a narcissistic man-child who tries to portray the selfish pursuit of his lunatic Richie Rich fantasies as some kind of grand and heroic vision. It's not. It's narcissism exemplified.
If I'm an idiot for possessing the ability to perceive reality accurately, so be it. Title accepted, with pride.
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:2)
Your framing of the phenomenon might have something to do with your inability to understand it.
I think you have cause and effect reversed; my inability to understand it is much more likely to drive my framing of it than vice versa.
I don't personally know anyone who hates the punk, but I do know a lot of people who think poorly of him because he's a narcissistic man-child who tries to portray the selfish pursuit of his lunatic Richie Rich fantasies as some kind of grand and heroic vision. It's not. It's narcissism exemplified.
You say you don't know anyone who hates him, yet in the exact same sentence you make it clear that you dispse him, on completely superficial grounds. If the word "hate" bothers you then replace it with "dispise", "loathe", or "dislike"; it doesn't change anything about what I said. You dislike him based on some weird caricature you've created, and I still can't figure out
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I think you have cause and effect reversed; my inability to understand it is much more likely to drive my framing of it than vice versa.
No disrespect intended: Haven't you just said that you cannot understand the phenomenon of disrespect for Musk, therefor it must be irrational?
I'll not defend myself against an ad hominem argument. The discussion is about Musk, not me.
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:2)
No disrespect intended: Haven't you just said that you cannot understand the phenomenon of disrespect for Musk, therefor it must be irrational?
I've said that all of the reasons people give for hating Musk seem irrational, which is why I don't understand the phenomenon.
I'll not defend myself against an ad hominem argument. The discussion is about Musk, not me.
Me pointing out that you haven't provided any rational reason for disliking the guy is not an ad hominem.
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Me pointing out that you haven't provided any rational reason for disliking the guy is not an ad hominem.
Uh...
What I don't get is all the idiots...
an innate desire to despise anyone who is doing well
on completely superficial grounds
some weird caricature
a half-hearted attempt at amateur pyschoanalysis
I'd attempted to explain why "all the idiots" think poorly of Musk. You made it about me rather than explaining why his behavior does not deserve to be characterized as that of a narcissistic punk. Unnamed tens of saboteurs are responsible for his company failing to meet unrealistic production targets. A man who pointed out that underwater caves are not swimming pools is a "pedo guy". He's like Trump: He just says shit and expects the rest of us to be blind to how ludicrous that shit is. Narcissism exe
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:2)
I'd attempted to explain why "all the idiots" think poorly of Musk.
No, you didn't. You just asserted that he's a narcissist and that you don't like him. That's not an explanation.
Granted, maybe you did attempt to explain but, if so, you really suck at it.
Unnamed tens of saboteurs are responsible for his company failing to meet unrealistic production targets.
You expect the CEO of a company to publicaly name someone engaging in subterfuge? Are you insane?
A man who pointed out that underwater caves are not swimming pools is a "pedo guy".
That's a cute bit of handwaving, but you're actually talking about a guy who told Musk to shove his submarine up his ass. That would be the same submarine which Musk and his team spent a bunch of money and time developing a
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If I'm an idiot for possessing the ability to perceive reality accurately, so be it. Title accepted, with pride.
No, but you might be an idiot if you think your perception of reality is the accurate one and everyone else's is wrong...
Or you could be right, and actually a genius. But since you didn't know basic orbital mechanics above, I'm going with the former.
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$60k is midrange for a vehicle now. Get out of your parents basement once in a while. Ford suckered people into spending $100k on a pickup truck.
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Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:2)
They haven't even produced a single affordable EV yet!
This statement alone makes it obvious that you're either a troll or a moron. If you want to apologise for that and restate your argument I'll be happy to have a discussion with you, but as it stands I don't think any reasonable person is going to take you seriously.
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:5, Interesting)
define "better"
I've test-driven a Model S. I didn't buy it, I bought a BMW instead. But there was a lot that I liked, and while I thought it was overpriced by maybe 20k, it wasn't junk and the only reason that it's niche is the price.
Chinese cars, on the other hand, have in general failed so hard on any serious quality tests in the west that it is very clear they are still in the early steps of understanding how to build a proper car at all. I'm sure they will get there in about a decade, but I can't hold my breath that long.
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In one quarter BAIC accomplished more than Tesla has in 15 years.
By what metrics in particular? Tesla's problems notwithstanding, that statements seems rather incredible for any single manufacturer.
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Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:2)
It was more like 50-60 years ago. And yeah, they were garbage.
Idiots like to bring up that fact for some reason. No idea why. There basically saying "it took Japan 30 years to make a decent car, so, like, China rocks!". No clue how that's supposed to make sense, but there you have it ...
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No, it was 30-40 years ago, and by that time the Japanese were already pretty good.
I meant the period when Japanese vehicles were bad, not the period when American companies were still badmouthing them.
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Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:2)
Nissan Leaf - released about 15 months before the Model S. And about 7 years before the Model 3.
And about 2 years after the Roadster. With about a quarter of the range, a fraction of the power,
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Who was selling them that cheap before Tesla was barreling down on them with lofty promises and rapid growth? I bet you’re scared to answer.
That was the question. The answer is, of course, the Nissan Leaf.
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:5, Funny)
Do you really not get why people hate his guts?
No.
He says he's going to replace airplanes with rockets.
He says he's going to move people in pneumatic tubes.
He also says he's going to dig hundreds of non-pneumatic tubes under Los Angeles, and move people in their own cars, on sleds in said tunnels.
He sold a flamethrower, because he thought it would be "cool".
There's probably more of these.
I'm more confused than ever. I would classify all of those things as "cool!" and then follow it up with "make it happen!". Why in the world would any of those things make you hate him?
Didn't he make Paypal evil?
That's true. I'm kinda tired of having to call in a catholic priest every time I pay for something online. Demonic possession is a big downside.
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I'm more confused than ever. I would classify all of those things as "cool!" and then follow it up with "make it happen!". Why in the world would any of those things make you hate him?
Because they're ridiculously expensive and impractical. I'm not going to hate his guts for it, but I'm pretty sick of his fanboys.
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:5, Interesting)
Because they're ridiculously expensive and impractical.
This is what I was saying about electric cars back in 2008, and about the idea of reusable rockets back in 2010. I underestimated him twice; unlike people like you, I learn from my mistakes.
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny how the short sellers all hide.
I'm here with my name (trivial to link to my real-life identity even, if you are not an idiot with a search engine) and I own those Tesla stocks that you sold. And I'm holding them still and will hold them in a year, just like I did a year ago or two years ago when people were doing the same dances.
Because Tesla is hands down leader in its market, Elon Musk or not. I love idiots like you who focus on the star CEO and don't understand that half of a leaders job is to take the shit so people under him can calmly work without the interference. And what I see coming out of the company I like. There are growing pains, but as long as they are growing pains, I'm fine.
You can continue selling short, I don't care much. You can also invest in some AAA rated company that is closing factories and firing people and cutting markets and for some reason people think that leads to being more profitable (it doesn't, it just leads to a higher profit-to-equity ratio which is a KPI for analysts who think only in numbers).
At the same time, I'm driving a BMW and not a Model S because there is a lot that the guys at Tesla still need to learn about good interior design, but from what I've read (only test-driven a Model S, so I can't say myself), the Model X and Model 3 are already much better in that regard.
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:2)
Pedo guy was a moron who shit on Elon for no good reason. True, Elon should have been the bigger man and not responded in kind. But even the best of us can't help responding to trolls sometimes.
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:5, Informative)
The diver was instrumental to the entire rescue effort
Nothing if the sort. He did no diving. At best he provided the authorities with the names of some British divers who could help. That's great and all, but "instrumental" is an idiotic overstatement of his contribution.
while your favorite flamethrower beach boy decided to show up uninvited and wanted to shove a fucking metal tube into a narrow cave despite being told by the rescue chief in charge that it wouldnâ(TM)t work.
This is, of course, more bullshit. He was encouraged to build the submarine by Richard Stanton; one of the two divers who were the first to reach the boys. You know, a guy who actually WAS instrumental to the rescue effort.
Get fucked, you bloody fanatic.
I do, on a fairly regular basis. Judging by your rabid frustration, I suspect you can't day the same.
Re: Never understood the admiration (Score:2)
Kek. You doing something important. That's a good one.
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despite being told by the rescue chief in charge that it wouldn’t work
Then it's a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, considering that some other people in charge were apparently of a different opinion.
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Do we not remember how scummy PayPal was when he was there?
No, "we" don't; we do, however, remember how shitty PayPal turned after they were bought up by eBay...
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Speak for yourself. I was happy to use ebay, never have been happy about paypal.
It was shitty before ebay bought it, and it was shitty after. The only real difference is that ebay went shitty too.
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Fuck it, that's not even the right word. It got straight up evil.
Re:Never understood the admiration (Score:5, Informative)
Was making 80K to 120K cars till 2014.
Is making 50K electric cars now.
He will make 35K electric car next year
He promises 1000. Delivers 900. Everyone focuses on falling short of the target by 100. While forgeting that 900 is 900 above what every one said is impossible.
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He promises 1000. Delivers 900. Everyone focuses on falling short of the target by 100. While forgeting that 900 is 900 above what every one said is impossible.
I'd like a source on the "everyone said is impossible". The 2010 Nissan Leaf with 70 miles of range sold for $25,000. Buying 3 of them and strapping them together will get you the same 200 miles of range for the same price as a Tesla. And this was in 2010! What Tesla did was spend 8 years and billions of dollars to end up in the same place as Nissan, albeit with much greater fanfare. Is that really something to be proud of?
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Have you driven a Nissan LEAF? Have you driven a Tesla Model S?
I own one of each, and there is a world of difference between them. Nissan is nowhere close to Tesla.
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Nissan is nowhere close to Tesla.
Especially in terms of price.
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I own one of each, and there is a world of difference between them.
Oh really? How much less time do you spend commuting now that you have the Model S?
I spend a lot less time worrying about when and where to charge, and whether I need to take a different car that day because the LEAF won't go far enough. But the difference is a lot more than just range. The Tesla is a much nicer experience... and that's saying something since the LEAF is more enjoyable to drive than most ICEVs I've had.
Or by "world of difference" you mean its ability to show off how rich you are?
That is actually the biggest negative with the Tesla. I'm not a flashy person and I don't care for all of the attention the Tesla gets. But it's by far the nicest-driving
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The 2010 Nissan Leaf with 70 miles of range sold for $25,000. Buying 3 of them and strapping them together will get you the same 200 miles of range for the same price as a Tesla.
Only until their batteries break in a few years. [pushevs.com] Tesla may be somewhat more expensive but it is likely to have significantly higher lifetime quality. As we're saying in my country, I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things.
1% (Score:2)
You think you need to be a 1%'er to afford a Tesla?
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Do we not remember how scummy PayPal was when he was there?
A system that provided easy online payment systems breaking the bank cartel and allowing easy transfer of funds between people all while creating an industry which now has heavy competition?
Paypal was scummy, and I thank Elon Musk for investing in it and making the world a better place for it.
I don't get it. He isn't an engineer
No, he's someone who invests his wealth into new technologies that provide game changers to the world, someone who employs engineers to bring his vision to life and push boundaries. Being an engineer is good and all, b
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If you're trolling you're doing a piss poor job.
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South Africa is a shithole. The white people have reason to be racist. What they should do is flee that country and then you'll see how bad it really gets when its run by 100% blacks. Take your pic from adding more zeroes onto the currency weekly or having the country change names when a new "president" is "elected".
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Fuck, I hope you find that as hilarious as I do.
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White South Africans are racist as fuck.
Interesting. If I'm reading you're post correctly, you have drawn a conclusion about Elon Musk based on his skin color and place of birth. Do you have any other information to offer or are these two facts sufficient to form the entire basis of your conclusion?
I'm thinking of a word to describe someone who draws conclusions based SOLELY on skin color. Can you guess what it is? I don't think combining skin color with place of birth when announcing your conclusions makes you any less of one.
Furthermore, the c
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Seen it so many times; local store becomes popular, tries to expand from 1 store to 6-12 at once...
http://community.seattletimes.... [nwsource.com]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
always fails.
Stressed out (Score:2)
or in stead of some conspiracy, he's just stressed out. I watched this interview: talking tech with Elon Musk [youtube.com] of a few days ago. I don't care about tears, but the way he talks here has a lot of the same signs as people about to burn out from stress. That is not to say he will, lots of people in that state manage to avoid it, but if it was a colleague of mine I'd tell him to take a break.