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Power Transportation United States Hardware Technology

In Preparation For Model 3, Tesla Plans To Double the Size of Its Supercharger Network This Year (fortune.com) 177

Posted by BeauHD from the bigger-the-better dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Fortune: Tesla says it will double the number of electric vehicle chargers in its network this year as the automaker prepares for the production of its mass-market vehicle the Model 3. The plan, announced Monday in a blog post on the company's website, will grow its global network of Superchargers from more than 5,400 today to more than 10,000 by the end of the year. Tesla, which had previously announced in its annual shareholder letter plans to double the network in North America, did not disclose the cost of such an ambitious expansion. Many sites will soon enter construction to open in advance of the summer travel season, according to Tesla. The company says it will add charging locations within city centers as well as highway sites this year. The goal is to make "charging ubiquitous in urban centers," Tesla says in its blog post. The company says it will build larger sites along busy travel routes to accommodate several dozen Teslas simultaneously. These larger sites will also have customer service centers.
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In Preparation For Model 3, Tesla Plans To Double the Size of Its Supercharger Network This Year More

In Preparation For Model 3, Tesla Plans To Double the Size of Its Supercharger Network This Year

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  • Okay, but... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @03:10AM (#54296575) Homepage Journal

    It would be nice if Tesla included charging for other vehicles. There are only so many sites on major routes where you can connect a megawatt or two of chargers to the grid, and Tesla has been fighting other networks to get them.

    It would just kind of suck if all the best spots were Tesla only. I say that as someone who plans to buy a Model 3.

    • Re:Okay, but... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Cyberax ( 705495 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @03:22AM (#54296597)
      Right now there are NO cars on the market that are capable of accepting full Tesla supercharger power. Tesla did say that they're open in future to collaborating with other automakers, though other automakers don't seem to share that desire.

      • Re:Okay, but... (Score:4, Informative)

        by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @04:26AM (#54296691)
        CCS has standards for rates up to 120Kw already and 350Kw in the works. A Hyundai Ioniq (for example) can already charge at 120Kw so yes you could charge another vehicle at the same rate as a Tesla. Oddly the Bolt has a 50Kw limit but that's nothing to do with the underlying standards.

        Most other vehicles have lower capacity batteries so perhaps the pattern of charging and usage has been different up until now. Tesla owners might drive longer distances or prefer to charge at a station once a week whereas someone in a Leaf might be driving shorter distances and charging from home.

        I expect that pattern will change in time. EVs like the Ioniq, Bolt and 2nd gen Leaf all have increased ranges and therefore the need for rapid charging will increase. Maybe the Bolt will get a software update or hardware revision for a faster charging rate. I expect that charging stations will receive iterative upgrades over time.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Cyberax ( 705495 )
          Tesla is up to 150kW in Europe (120kW in the US). Hyundai Ioniq supports 70kW according to this site: http://insideevs.com/hyundai-i... [insideevs.com] . So nope, still no other car with similar capabilities. I don't doubt that this will change in future, but for now only Teslas can really the full supercharger capabilities.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by DrXym ( 126579 )
            Actually we're both wrong. It's 100Kw [electrek.co]. Tesla's supercharging is also over pairs of chargers so it's a theoretical maximum. CCS can match the rates, but as I said lower capacity batteries probably haven't made the need so pressing.

            • Re: (Score:3)

              by Cyberax ( 705495 )
              "Over a pair of superchargers" means that if two Teslas are charging on the same SC circuit then each of them will only get 60kW. A single Tesla can draw up to 120kW (I routinely get around 115kW on SCs when the battery is almost empty) but that does taper off with the increasing battery charge.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by starless ( 60879 )

              100Kw

              A fairly small thing, but please can not use "kW" but use the correct "kW".

              Unit symbols are written in lower case letters except for liter and those units derived from the name of a person (m for meter, but W for watt, Pa for pascal, etc.).

              https://www.nist.gov/pml/weigh... [nist.gov]

              Metric prefixes for 1000 and below are lower case.
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

              Thanks!

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by haruchai ( 17472 )

                "but please can not use "kW" but use the correct "kW""
                Heh, and you made the same mistake in trying to correct him :-D

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by starless ( 60879 )

                  "but please can not use "kW" but use the correct "kW""
                  Heh, and you made the same mistake in trying to correct him :-D

                  I think it's some rule of slashdot that any post (particularly ones I make) that attempts
                  to correct a typo also have a typo...

                  But I didn't make the same mistake exactly, I typed the correct version twice.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Rei ( 128717 )

            A lot of it simply comes down to battery size. As cells charge in parallel, then for a given cell chemistry and format, the rate you can safely charge is proportional to the vehicle's capacity. And Teslas have huge capacities compared to most other EVs (for example, the Ioniq is only 28kWh).

            Now, of course, that's conditional on vehicles using the same types of cells. For example, if one vehicle is using cobalt-based 18650s and another is using, say LiPo or high-rate spinel cells, then the latter can take a

            • A huge issue u missed is the number of cells. Other car makers use small numbers of much larger cells. Tesla is only one with massive number of cells and excellent HVAC on them. As such Tesla can pour into each cell at faster rate without the high temps that degrade those large cells.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It doesn't matter, as long as there is a compatible connector a Leaf could charge at 40kW. The charger doesn't "force" more in, it's all controlled by the car.

      • Much more basically, everyone else beside Tesla is standardizing on Menekes connector, on a similar one with additional pair of DC pins, and on Chademo.
        Nobody else is using Tesla's connector right now.

        That means that, for Tesla charger to be usable by other cars, you'd need a converter anyway.

        That means there's market for Tesla to starts selling a converter, that enable other cars to charge, by both adapting connector and adapting various power standards. An whose pricing includes charging fee (just as supe

        • No. There is a market for other car makers to make and sell the adapters. They do not want EV sales. And Tesla spots are already full.

          • No. There is a market for other car makers to make and sell the adapters.

            Yeah, but who pays for the super-chargers?
            - If Renault pockets all the money for Zoé-to-Tesla converters, and Opel pockets the Ampera-to-Tesla, etc. how's Tesla supposed to pay to build the towers ?

            Tesla has to contibute in some ways to the converter in order to get cash.
            - I suppose there is probably some form of handshaking to validate access for the car/converter (in the past, it used to be that super-charging was a paid separate option)

            (And besides, they're the one producing NON-standard connector

            • I suppose Telsa could supply the electricity and get paid for it as a way to pay for the super chargers.

              There definitely is some handshaking involved, the car authenticates to Tesla before the electricity flows. You can't merely build an adapter, you have to get Tesla to give you an authentication code for your non-Telsa vehicle and I'm sure they would be willing to do that for the right price (plus cost of electricity)..

      • "Right now there are NO cars on the market that are capable of accepting full Tesla supercharger power."

        But if the industry standardized the plugs and sockets, all electrics could charge from the same 'pumps'. Not having this standardization is like all those old jokes about if Microsoft cars had to use Microsoft gasoline.

    • Re:Okay, but... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @03:29AM (#54296605)

      Tesla did one big thing : it freed their supercharger patents. The proverbial ball is in the other vehicle's camp.

      The EV charging landscape is currently a mess. It differs continent from continent, maker from maker.

    • Re:Okay, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @04:08AM (#54296659)
      In Europe they will be compelled to because the bloc has take the sensible decision to mandate a charging standard (CCS type 2) and require that all stations charge all vehicles on a non-discriminatory basis through common payment methods. i.e. it works like a petrol station. It doesn't stop stations offering other charge formats but with a common standard those other formats will die out over time, e.g. chademo is basically just the Nissan Leaf at this point and will probably die with it.

      The US should do similar to put an end to all of these competing charging formats and vertical markets. It's not like Tesla will lose out because they stand to profit regardless of which vehicle is charging at their stations.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ledow ( 319597 )

        Yeah.

        That'll work as well as the EU's "you must use micro-USB charging leads" for all phones.

        Like the iPhones. Since, supposedly, the iPhone 5. By law.

        http://www.geek.com/apple/appl... [geek.com]

        Didn't happen, even if that's what they said was going to happen.

        • Re:Okay, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

          by dunkelfalke ( 91624 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:50AM (#54296817)

          It has worked extremly well. The majority of gadgets nowadays - and not just phones - use micro-USB for charging.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DrXym ( 126579 )
          Yes the car could use some proprietary port and force owners to use adapter cables every time to charge their car. But then their car will suck and people will take note of the fact.

          The situation for a phone is different because most people would get a charger for their phone and predominantly charge through that. .

        • Didn't happen, even if that's what they said was going to happen.

          Nonsense - Apple was forced to produce a pointless MicroUSB to Lightning adapter for the iPhone to satisfy the EU.

          Anyway, that particular EU directive was probably better than nothing (it dealt with companies using connectors that were not only proprietary but model-specific) but was badly misconceived because it concentrated on the socket on the phone rather than the more sensible practice of mandating a USB-A socket on the adapter leaving makers to experiment with the (heavily size-constrained) phone so

      • In Europe they will be compelled to

        Not at all. There's noting in Europe that requires Tesla to provide any charging to anyone else (and they don't now either). The EU's efforts were around the creation of an adoptable standard for the plug and socket used in the cars. That was it. The requirement for filling stations to implement this standard is left up to legislation of individual countries. The EU tried to compel car makers, but really no one wanted to for a good reason. What you call "sensible" everyone else calls "stupid" as the CCS Typ

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DrXym ( 126579 )

          Not at all. There's noting in Europe that requires Tesla to provide any charging to anyone else (and they don't now either).

          Yes there is. Here is the directive [europa.eu] that comes into force on 31 Dec 2020. The directive covers a bunch of stuff about alternative fuel but in this case, the salient point is that charging stations MUST offer combo 2 chargers and MUST charge on a non-discriminatory basis. There is also a bunch of other good stuff about non-discriminatory charging across borders and so forth.

          Obviously there is over 3 years to go on this and charge stations can be grandfathered in. But nobody is going to turn soil on a new c

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by msauve ( 701917 )
            Your reference says "no."

            ...the choice made in this Directive ... should not affect existing recharging points deployed before the entry into force of this Directive....require compliance of the infrastructures to be deployed or renewed with the technical specifications...

            It says the Directive only applies to new or "renewed" stations. I don't see anything which would require Tesla to retrofit existing stations. But, feel free to point out where it says that, if you think otherwise.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by DrXym ( 126579 )
              It's almost as if I said that... "Obviously there is over 3 years to go on this and charge stations can be grandfathered in."

              It doesn't mean new stations are going to be built blindly without regard to legislation coming into force within a short period of time. And even now there are more than enough CCS combo 2 vehicles to justify supporting what will soon be mandatory.

          • No they don't. Have a closer read. There's some real gold in a directive that states that it should itself be reviewed before it comes into force due to changing standards. Combined with the fact that while the Annex itself states a lot of technical shalls, the requirements to follow the annex is full of shoulds.
            Really the thing that makes this directive most irrelevant to any point you were trying to make is that the directive effectively grandfathers all existing technology prior to 2020, and is open to c

      • The US should do similar to put an end to all of these competing charging formats and vertical markets. It's not like Tesla will lose out because they stand to profit regardless of which vehicle is charging at their stations.

        You are Just Plain Wrong. The Supercharger network is a competitive advantage. Since no one else offers that, and no one else can charge at those points, as long as Tesla has it and nobody else does, it is a significant inducement to buy Tesla instead of something else. Thus, this is the time for Tesla to lobby against such a move. When other makers have similar networks, then Tesla will want to lobby for charge connector standardization, because that will force them to let Tesla customers use any charger.

    • It would be nice if Tesla included charging for other vehicles.

      Tesla did. They opened up all patents to 3rd parties allowing people to make vehicles compatible with Superchargers.

      Why should Telsa spend money developing support for CHAdeMO or CCS?

      • Why should Telsa spend money developing support for CHAdeMO or CCS?

        Because CCS supports 350kW charging, while Tesla's charger only supports 120kW, and because CCS is the de-facto standard across the world at this point. It's on 90% of the chargers, and 90% of the vehicles.

        • CCS does *not* support 350kW charging. If it did then you could point me to both a single 350kW charger installed for customer use anywhere in the world and a single car available for purchase which can use that charger. How can something be a "de facto" standard when it doesn't exist?

          There is a de facto standard in 100kW+ charging, but it sure as hell isn't CCS.

        • Because CCS supports 350kW charging, while Tesla's charger only supports 120kW

          It most definitely does not. It was meant as a scalable standard, only in electronic and signalling. The current connectors can't even handle the same power as Tesla and any proposed upgrade to 350kW will likely need a completely different delivery system. But they'll call it CCS because it will be backwards compatible with an adaptor cable.

          and because CCS is the de-facto standard across the world at this point

          It most definitely is not. It is quite popular in public trickle charging stations in Europe, and the CCS type 2 adaptor was given a European standard number. That's abo

    • It would just kind of suck if all the best spots were Tesla only.

      First mover advantage? Not exactly uncommon.

      • It would just kind of suck if all the best spots were Tesla only.

        First mover advantage? Not exactly uncommon.

        It may not be uncommon, but neither are cartels or monopolies in an unregulated market. They still suck for consumers.

    • It would make no sense to do so. None of the established car makers want to do EVs. They will only jump on this once ice sales plummet, and they see Tesla at over 1 million cars / year. IOW, in about 2 years it will make sense.

    • Especially given that the entire rest of the world (barring Nissan) has standardised on J1772 + combo connectors.

    • 1. Chargers have local battery storage--they can charge low & slow from the grid and then dump that energy quickly into a vehicle battery.

      2. There is a *lot* of power available from those power lines you see running parallel to every "major route"

      3. Tesla has offered to collaborate with other manufacturers for access to the Supercharger network--none of them have taken Tesla up on that offer.

  • More Vehicle compatbility (Score:3)

    by DrYak ( 748999 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @03:13AM (#54296581) Homepage

    Would be even better if there was a practical way to plug other vehicles into the network.
    (Pay Tesla for a Menekes adapter + fee/plan to access the supercharger network ?...)

    • Would be even better if there was a practical way to plug other vehicles into the network.

      I kinda doubt the Tesla superchargers suck at what they do. Tesla has the biggest infrastructure to date and has opened its patents [slashdot.org] to other manufacturers to use. There is very little benefit to the owner of a Volt or Leaf to not being able to use the supercharger network. There may be benefit to the other vehicles' manufacturers to make their systems proprietary (maybe GM is delusional about "owning all the gas sta

      • I kinda doubt the Tesla superchargers suck at what they do.

        They do actually - they only support 120kW, compared to the J1772+Combo standard which supports 350kW.

        They also have far fewer vehicles with their weird connector on the road, and far fewer charging stations supporting their weird standard.

        • Please stop spouting falsehoods. CCS doesn't dominant as you suggest.

          CCS support for 350kW is academic at this point: there are no vehicles that support it and very few chargers installed.

          Meanwhile Tesla is working on 350kW (or perhaps more) and Chademo is a significant standard, which is also working on higher speeds.

          • CCS doesn't dominant as you suggest.

            CSS (a.k.a. "Combo") for DC and Type 2 (a.k.a. Mennekes - the same but without the 2 extra pins for DC) for AC are the two official standard in Europe for electric cars.
            Any no-name/3rd-party high-power station I've seen here around feature Mennekes connectors (random example : on the parking lot of local IKEA) or Mennekes+Combo+Chademo (random exemple: the nearest highway gaz station).

            It might be different on your side of the Atlantic pond.
            But in the old continent, Mennekes and CCS are the dominant connect

            • But in the old continent, Mennekes and CCS are the dominant connectors by official standardisation.

              Really? [zap-map.com]
              From that page:

              The CHAdeMO 50kW Rapid DC chargers are the most widespread with 820 connectors -- 36% of the total.

              • Really? [zap-map.com]

                From that page:

                From the top of the same page (emphasis mine):

                With new points being added daily, the landscape of UK charging point infrastructure is continually changing.

                You might have missed the recent news but UK stopped being part of the European union.
                (And EU regulation were big point on Brexiters' agument list).

                Now for the detail :
                - EU standard is Mennekes and Combo (the later is a backward compatible super-set of the former. You can charge a DC enabled car, with AC Mennekes charger - you'll only be limited to the ma

    • Re:More Vehicle compatbility (Score:4, Informative)

      by Hodr ( 219920 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @10:00AM (#54297683) Homepage

      You miss the point of a fast charge station. If I were a Tesla owner I might be a bit pissed if every time I went to fill all of the stations were tied up with Bolt owners taking 2 hours to charge.

  • Great (Score:3)

    by Chrisq ( 894406 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:44AM (#54296803)

    In Preparation For Model 3, Tesla Plans To Double the Size of Its Supercharger Network This Year

    Great. Now the plug will be too big for older cars ;-)

  • I am fuel agnostic because I do not believe the electric cars currently fix any problems that I care about - there are 7.5b of us. The most effective planet saving measure is condom. Everything else is maybe necessary if improvement to the point of proven helping issues at stake AND being feasible for common man.
    As for the vehicle, charging network etc - I do not quite understand the excitement. When Tesla or whoever fixes the problem bespoken above and in the subject then it can move on to fixing the p

  • Progress (Score:3)

    by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @08:14AM (#54297171)

    Slashdot is making progress. I'm glad to see a discussion on electric cars on this forum where no-one is whining "electric cars will never work, you can't go more than 200 miles without needing to refuel... customers don't want electric..." etc,etc,et.

    When even the luddites accept a technology as here to stay you know the technology is a success.

    Now to win over the space luddites.

    • Slashdot is making progress. I'm glad to see a discussion on electric cars on this forum where no-one is whining "electric cars will never work, you can't go more than 200 miles without needing to refuel... customers don't want electric..." etc,etc,et.

      Yes, it is truly sad how many Slashdotters are so vastly behind the times. They should really fuck off back to CNET where they apparently came from

  • People keep talking about the model 3 but no one seems to be talking about the ugly, spartan dashboard that inspires absolutely no emotion or passion.

    Featureless except for a generic tablet screen in the middle. No awe-inspiring gauge cluster. No pleasing lines and curves.

    My 2014 Honda Accord has a far nicer looking dash and it's a mainstream mass-produced car that isn't particularly special. (I love my car, but there's nothing unique or thrilling about it.)

    What the hell were they thinking? This is Tesla, d

    • Featureless except for a generic tablet screen in the middle. No awe-inspiring gauge cluster. No pleasing lines and curves.

      You find gauge clusters "awe-inspiring"? You need to get out more my friend if that really impresses you.

      What the hell were they thinking? This is Tesla, damnit. They should be making a car that blows you away when you sit behind the wheel.

      Have you sat behind the wheel of one? How do you know it won't blow you away? Given that the car hasn't entered production yet you seem awfully quick to judge...

    • And just look at the engine room, err, I mean compartment. How dull and boring, inspiring no emotion or passion. Not awe-inspiring like when I was young, when the steam pistons and drive coupling shafts were hanging off the sides of locomotives, gleaming in the sunlight as they drove the massive drive wheels.

      Excuse me, got a bit carried away there. And just listen to the exhaust note - no poorly muffled noise of explosive gas releases echoing off the surrounding buildings and waking the city while driving

  • Not that I have anything against EVs, I own one myself after all (Volt) and it's worked out really well for me but I think folks are misunderstanding marketing Tesla uses for it's SuperCharger network.

    The SuperCharger network is not free, owners have essentially "paid" for it through the cost of their vehicle. Also it's been announced Telsa is thinking of charging Model 3 owners for the network because the profit margin is so narrow that there's nothing left to pay for the "free" power. Telsa also doesn't

    • I wish Tesla had stuck with the original plan of including a small gas powered generator. That said I'm pretty sure that as the Model 3 gains market share you'll see someone commercially producing a small efficient generator on an attractive trailer complete with matching body styling and signal lights. Then you can either buy one to keep in a shed until you need it for long trips or rent one from a place like U-Haul or something.

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