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HP Businesses

HP Makes More Money, Cuts 16,000 Jobs 288

jfruh (300774) writes "Good news for HP: Profits are up by 18% over the previous year! Bad news for HP: A lot of those profits are from post-Windows XP PC upgrades, and company revenue actually dipped 1%. The solution, according to CEO Meg Whitman, is "continuous improvement in our cost structure," which means firing thousands of people. At the end of the next round of layoffs, the company will have shed 50,000 employees since 2012." New submitter Deveauxes (3664417) links to a similar story from CNN's news service, according to which "HP said the latest layoffs would come across all its business units and geographic locations, and would generate $1 billion in annual savings beyond the $3.5 to $4 billion projected from the previously announced cuts. 'No company likes to decrease the work force, and we recognize that this is difficult for employees,' CEO Meg Whitman said in a conference call with analysts. 'I think everyone understands the turnaround we're in.'"
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HP Makes More Money, Cuts 16,000 Jobs

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 23, 2014 @08:20PM (#47080249)

    How many H1Bs will replace them?

    • by supremebob ( 574732 ) <> on Friday May 23, 2014 @08:32PM (#47080311) Journal

      I thought that they still relocating entire offices to third world countries, and staffing them with people making $3 an hour to do your tech support calls. You can't get H1B's for that cheap!

      What... you still want tech support that can actually understand English and isn't just navigating through a troubleshooting flow chart to "fix" your problem? You better pony up for the Gold level Enterprise support package for $$$$$$ a month.

      • by sumdumass ( 711423 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:34PM (#47080703) Journal

        As for the English speaking, all you have to do is explain to them that you have a hearing problem and need to speak with someone who is accent free in English. They will bend over backwards to get you to a native English speaker (quasi Americans with disabilities act and all).

        Now the downside to this is more time on hold. The upside- beside understanding what they are saying- is that the native English speaker will likely by a higher level tech who can go outside the chart without delving into "please insert the restore CD into the computer" or at least be able to warn about backups first. but there is no guarantee. Well, I guess now there is no restore CD, press key combination and select restore?

        • Or even better just ask around and find which local shop has a good rep and buy from them! I never understood somebody trying to save $20 by buying an HP or Dell "special" only to end up pulling their hair out because the only "support" if a third tier Indian reading from a cue card whose answer to everything is reboot or wipe. you buy from bob's shop down the street and then you can just walk in and say "Hey Bob I have a problem!" and since we small shops live and die by word of mouth? We actually CARE whe

      • by mrops ( 927562 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @10:20PM (#47080879)

        Being an Indian, I understand the frustration when support goes out to some dude in India who barely speaks English. I have been there myself, not only that, I have been asked how I made it to Canada.

        Nonetheless, those that do make the H1B cut are not the same that answer those phone calls. H1B may be fresh grads, however most have engineering degrees, at the start of which they had to compete against 500,000 applicants for a under 10000 seats. Further, seats in Computer engineering which are valued more so than others are probably around 1000.

        Furthermore, there is a contrast in fee, in US, a student might have to bail out if he cannot afford the education, so not only do you have to be smart, you have to be rich, contrasting that to peanuts, the competition gets very very tough back in India.

        So joke all you want, those that do make it to US are rather smart and hard working.

        I'm not saying they are not exploited, they are. The solution is simple, the employer has to prove, H1B is needed as local talent cannot be found, if thats the case, do not tie H1B to an employer, let the employee roam free. You will see a drastic cut in H1B and abuse of new immigrants.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 23, 2014 @10:47PM (#47080983)

          The problem isn't Hindi-speakers, it is the US H-1B system that may not have a lot of people totally, but in the relatively narrow market of development and IT, it severely destroys wages.

          The threat of a H-1B is like one not seen in any other industry. If you are a lawyer, accountant, or in any other profession, your boss can't threaten (and follow through) with being fired and replaced with someone who works for $16,000 a year, has a full CCIE or MCSE. In /. post a few days ago, I had a similar experience to someone who posted about being fired after he cleaned up a bad admin and was replaced by a H-1B because his boss said, "H-1Bs don't do sabotage".

          It is the abuse of H-1Bs, and the fact that they seem to be treated by management as the emissaries of $DEITY, the solution for all problems.

          As for proving H-1Bs are needed, that is trivially easy to abuse. I've seen places have a "secret requirement" for jobs, where -nobody- fits the requirement, so they get their minimum wage worker. I personally have had to train a H-1B replacement whose only qualification over me was the fact that he was a bargain basement worker, and that if he didn't toe the line 24/7/365, he would be sent back to Mumbai almost immediately.

          Another excuse for H-1Bs I've personally seen were job reqs that had three pages of listings. Again, nobody had 12 years of Windows Server 2012, 25 years of OS X, and so on. Again, nobody locally meets those reqs, so the company hits Tata or Infosys and lo and behold, they get a H-1B for that developer position who is willing to work obscene hours for peanuts.

          Don't take it personally. It isn't the H-1B who is trying to make life better for themselves. It is the fscked US system and the managers who abuse the process, begging politicians to open the floodgates and entirely destroy work segments, similar to how meat packing and textiles were destroyed as blue collar work.

          It is so common, it is obscene. I have seen perfectly competant developer groups tossed and all coding offshored. The result was broken stuff that ended up requiring more money and man-hours to get working than it would have cost in paying some people decent salaries.

        • by TheGratefulNet ( 143330 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @10:57PM (#47081033)

          So joke all you want, those that do make it to US are rather smart and hard working.

          sorry, not my experience at all (20+ years in the bay area and I have tons of experience with indians). they THINK they are good, but the code quality, design quality and attention to detail is far below par.

          I hate saying that. I really do, but it tends to be true. indians study by memorizing and they tend to be great at that; but when it comes to thinking things thru, they fall down. the education system encourages rote memorization.

        • by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @11:22PM (#47081133)

          The annual number of H1B visas issued 85,000.

          However, the number of H1B visas working in the USA is closer to 750,000 today.

          (it was about 650,000 in 2009.

          There are roughly five million STEM jobs including immigrant labor and native born labor.

          So about 1/8 of all these jobs are taken by H1B visas.

          Meanwhile, there are almost double the number of native born with STEM degrees.

          There is not a shortage of workers. There is a shortage of workers willing to work for low wages.


        • by NormalVisual ( 565491 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @11:36PM (#47081187)
          I've had experiences with both good H1-Bs and awful ones. I currently work with two - one is Chinese and one is Indian. Neither is expected to put in more than 40 hours/week unless it's really needed, in which case we're *all* there. The Chinese guy is sharp as a tack, and is extremely good at both design and implementation. He's also one of my best friends. The Indian girl is fricking *amazing* when it comes to debugging - give her a dump file supplied by a customer and odds are she'll have found the problem within the hour, whether it's an application-level issue or something that we've hooked at the systems level. She's also one of the sweetest people I've ever met. Both are paid on par with what everyone else is, and our kick-ass HR manager abides by both the letter and spirit of the law - both of the H1-Bs were sought out only after we spent months looking to fill the positions with domestic workers (I interviewed quite a few of them after the company flew them in to talk to us). I've also worked with imported workers that couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag, even when effectively given step-by-step instructions, and others that were competent but effectively indentured servants working for far less than they were legally supposed to be. The system needs a lot of reform, both to protect domestic employees as well as those brought in from overseas.
      • How about outsourced people with great English skills, technical knowledge and still being paid around 3 bucks an hour?
        Welcome to Romania.

    • Hopefully a lot. We need some more smart people.
  • by jhylkema ( 545853 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @08:35PM (#47080343)

    They used to make really cool, quality stuff (Agilent Technologies anyone?) Now they're reduced to selling disposable printers and ink that costs more than vintage Dom. Gee thanks, Carly.

    • Printer Ink (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Frosty Piss ( 770223 ) * on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:07PM (#47080541)

      All of my calculators used to be HP, all of my bench equipment was HP or Tektronix. But these days, I no longer own an ink-jet printer, so I don't buy printer ink, so HP has nothing for me.

      There are many brands that no longer represent their heritage: Philips, Zenith, Bell Labs, Kodak...

      It's sad, but it's life, HP hasen't been a "high tech" company foe several years, they have been a "re-brander" of Chinese consumer products.

      • All of my calculators used to be HP

        Mine still are. I use an HP48gx, and run HP48gx emulators on my Mac and my iThings when my real 48gx isn't within easy reach.

      • Ironically all of those companies moved plants over seas. Now the owners of the plants have displaced them with copies of the products that made the original companies big. Who needs high priced suits in New York or San Josey? That is why there is so much crying about patent infringement. Once the patents are up, the people you used to bypass giving someone a living wage take over and kick you out.

      • by stox ( 131684 )

        My HP-97 is still running like a champ.

      • in fact, even HP can't do a world class calculator anymore. for that, take a bullshit business grade HP calc and reload opensource firmware on it! []

        I bought a vinyl overlay, a new hp30b and was able to install new firmware, making it the calc that hp can't seem to do on their own, anymore.

        when USERS can create calculator firmware that blows away what the vendor, HP, can do, HP has clearly jumped the shark.

      • There are many brands that no longer represent their heritage: Philips, Zenith, Bell Labs, Kodak...

        Philips is still a good, solid brand. The others are HORRIFIC examples.

        Kodak is a failed company, who sold their brand in the liquidation sale, to cheap Chinese crap manufacturers.

        Zenith failed miserably in the 90s, and was bought out by LG, who make a few products with the Zenith name on them. Hasn't turned to shoveling crap like Kodak and Polaroid, but basically non-existent.

        Bell Labs is a sad story, too.

    • Remember when it took two people to move an HP oscilloscope and HP was an even better company to work for than the Japanese? Remember when the HP field service guys would come out to fix your 9000 and they could tell what was wrong with it by the taste of the dust on top of the cabinet? And they could tell you what 6-digit hex error codes meant from memory? What a difference 20 years makes when a great company is handed over to short-sighted idiots.
    • by Nethemas the Great ( 909900 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:26PM (#47080641)
      So instead of leveraging their assets (their employees) to develop new and relevant products they choose to gut the place to appease shareholders in the short-term. What a disgusting waste. The brand HP is meaningless without the talent that once stood behind it.
      • but: the talent that made HP has long ago left!

        no one I know aspires to work for HP anymore. its not a choice place of work anymore.

        not sure what quality of person still works there. like SGI, it was once a giant and the talent pool was first-class; but like SGI, there's no talent left and its a shell of what it once was.

        (funny that they both used to be big unix workstation companies, too)

    • by mirix ( 1649853 )

      Agilent still makes cool, quality stuff as far as I know. Expensive as always, though. The modern stuff running linux or windows doesn't feel quite the same as old, hefty CRT stuff... which is all I can afford anyway, but still looks to be built well.

      I think of them as HP, and "HP" as the shitty consumer products division that it fled from.

      • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Agilent still makes cool, quality stuff as far as I know. Expensive as always, though. The modern stuff running linux or windows doesn't feel quite the same as old, hefty CRT stuff... which is all I can afford anyway, but still looks to be built well.

        The low-end Agilent 2000 series scopes are actually quite affordable, and they give a *lot* for the price. Plus, they're upgradable in every way (except 2/4 channels) so you start with something basic and upgrade as needed.

        If you can afford it, the 3000 series

    • by PolygamousRanchKid ( 1290638 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:49PM (#47080789)

      Hewlett-Packard . . . ? A company built up by great engineers, run down by bad MBAs . . .

    • and they are also reduced to producing shit for handheld dmm's: [] []

      agilent used to be good. for high end gear, they probably still are; but it seems they have fallen down quite a bit over the years.

      HP - they are useless, now. when they were more than a printer-ink company, they were a force to be reckoned with. now, they are a printer-ink and pc whore.

      how the mighty have fallen ;(

    • No longer Agilent anymore since the life sciences division is the big money maker and they spun out the true HP T&M group with the stupid name of Keysight. I dream of HP going bankrupt soon and Keysight buying back their rightful name at auction for a pittance.

    • I've been waiting for ink prices to follow MP3 players, VCR's, DVD's etc in the price drop. The funny thing is this hasn't happened, so the expectation is not met leaving a market vacuum the same way physical CD's have dried up due to inflated prices. How is the sound track of music for a DVD more expensive to produce and distribute than the DVD?.

      The high price for ink is creating alternatives to printing. This is being filled by other companies, and alternatives to hard copy.

      Case in point. I have an HP

  • by mark_reh ( 2015546 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @08:38PM (#47080363) Journal

    got rid of ALL the employees!

    I suggest they start at the top!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 23, 2014 @08:40PM (#47080381)

    1. Build a product people want to buy. Do not shit on your customers. (HP is now failing here)
    2. Support your products to a reasonable degree. (HP is failing here too)
    3. Treat employees like valued portion of the business. (Huge HP failure here)

    There you have it. The SROP (standard republican operating procedure) is now being followed at HP. HP is on a death spiral into garbage land. A few key wealthy republicans are profiting massively, and working people are getting screwed.

  • by BeanBagKing ( 1151733 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @08:43PM (#47080399)
    Wasn't HP the one that, not long ago, hired and fired about 5 CEO's in the course of 7 years. Paying each a 8 figure severance package on their way out?
    • They needed to give each other the money they made selling off DEC IP to each others future patent troll companies before the left.

      1) Direct the company to buy IP from another company.
      2) Sell the IP off to patent trolls.
      3) Leave with a golden parachute to run the patent troll company.
      4) Watch the people left behind loose their jobs.

    • by BeanBagKing ( 1151733 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:32PM (#47080681)
      Since this was marked informative (thank you) I thought it would be fun to dig up the actual figures. It isn't quite as bad as I seem to remember, but I still think it's indicative of a company that pays far too much to CEO's that are either temporary, or fail to perform. Feel free to correct me where I've made a mistake, this isn't the type of thing I want to spend all night on, but perhaps someone would have fun finding their actual yearly salaries and bonuses.

      CEO Carly Fiorina served from 1999 to 2005, since then it looks like HP has had 5 CEO's including the current one

      Carly Fiorina - July 1999 to Feb 2005 - $20m severance
      Robert Wayman - Feb 2005 to Mar 2005 - $3m cash bonus - Interim CEO
      Mark Hurd - April 2005 to Aug 2010 - $12.2m severance
      Cathie Lesjack - Aug 2010 to Sep 2010 - $1m cash bonus, 2.5m stock grants - Interim CEO
      Leo Apotheker - Sep 2010 to Sep 2011 - $7.2m severance
      Meg Whitman - Sep 2011 to Present

      So I was exaggerating a bit, but lets look at this from a worst case scenario.

      From 2005 to 2011 (6 years) HP had 6 CEO's, that's an average of a CEO a year (not really, because we're taking the end of one's career and the beginning of another, but like I said, worst case). Not including their regular "pay", they took home a total of $45.9m in severance pay, an average of $9.18m per CEO not including Meg, who has yet to receive a severance package (we're waiting..). Basically, that's 9.2m for each for being fired. Here's the crazy part. The Interim CEO's, who by all accounts did a fine job (looking mostly at Robert Wayman), got paid less than those who were "let go" (namely Mark Hurd and Leo Apotheker)

      So things aren't quite as bad with the CEO's as I seem to have remembered, but I still feel like that's fairly abismal performance for a company that has been falling off a cliff since... well, since I can remember. Granted I'm young compared to some of you, but I can remember the days before Carly Fiorina, and a time I wouldn't go near HP computers because of how terrible I thought they were, for a variety of reasons that's pointless to debate here.
  • HP (Score:4, Interesting)

    by confused one ( 671304 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @08:46PM (#47080423)
    I say the 50,000 employees all team up and create a company named Homeward Bound (HB). Seems appropriate since HP sent them all home. They can sell software as a service, cheap servers, re-badge some cheap laptops and tablets, and maybe sell a few printers. Then they should do something different and maybe provide support from regional offices -- you call and you get someone within driving distance of your site, who can show up and actually help you solve your problem.
  • Don't they have a strategy? Some innovation that they could invest on to stay ahead? That would be more promising for the future than reducing workforce.
  • Brought to you by: (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jmd ( 14060 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:12PM (#47080567)


    More info here:

  • by eclectro ( 227083 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:13PM (#47080571)

    It proves that if you can give a corporation tax breaks and throw off the shackles of regulation, they will do better and want to hire more people. Oh...wait.

  • They could totally turn themselves around if they offered exactly what just about everybody wants..

    A ROCK SOLID home multifunction office machine. Rock Solid meaning slick bomb-proof drivers as well as a machine that didn't crap out on a black and white report because the yellow ink was low. This machine would also need a paper feed that didn't require the moon to be in proper alignment during a squirrel sacrifice in order to feed mostly whatever you put it in.

    Then, offer them like cell

    • by Nyder ( 754090 )

      Then, offer them like cell phones. Charge less up front but only a bit less. Quit selling junk and hoping to cheat everybody on ink. Let me sign up for a quality service and ink renewal plan that works like a cheaper version of a smart phone. Make it as trouble free and pain free as your average smart phone. I'll sign up tomorrow.

      Yes, just like cell phones. You only get to print 1000 sheets of paper on your current plan and it cost an extra $5 per page printed above that.

      And I could go on, but I think everyone gets the point.

    • > Rock Solid meaning slick bomb-proof drivers as well as a machine that didn't crap out

      I'm afraid HP desktops took on the "planned obsolescence" model around the time they bought Compaq. They've done the same for personal color printers, which are _much_ more expensive if you try to make them robust. Instead they make their money on the ink, and they make their deesktop and laptop money on the high turnover.

      Unfortunately, similar attitudes seem to have infested their servers, which are no longer the reli

      • please name 2 environments that actually benefited from using Infiniband

        HPC clusters and cloud providers. Several financial exchanges (CME, NASDAQ) appear to be in the process of adopting Infiniband, but every reference I see sounds like a press releases from Mellanox and not yet a demonstrable application.

    • A ROCK SOLID home multifunction office machine. Rock Solid meaning slick bomb-proof drivers as well as a machine that didn't crap out on a black and white report because the yellow ink was low.

      Ok, so current HP cheapo multifunction machines are not garbage at all. Case in point: HP 3070A. Does not crap out on B/W report because the yellow ink was low. Super easy to use. No bugs either on computer driver side or printer firmware. Wireless printing and scanning work flawlessly. You can even choose the scan function on the printer, a list of hostnames pops up on the printer LCD, you select one and press OK, after scanning your My Documents on your computer pops open automatically with the document i

  • by BobandMax ( 95054 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:22PM (#47080615)
    Outsource out whatever you can and cover the rest with H1B imports. The stock price will go up, for a while, and everyone will live crappily ever after.
    • sadly, this is the standard operating procedure for the bay area, at least. it seems every local company is filled with immigrants and to find a local walking in the hallway is a rare sight.

      you know the drill and the standard term for it: race to the bottom.

      HP is no different from all the rest. respect for employees is non-existent and employees are expected to 'pay' the price for any bad performance of the company.

      in fact, standard operating procedure for the bay area is not to even hire fulltime people

    • More head-wobblers. Just what people need.

  • by Antique Geekmeister ( 740220 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:34PM (#47080699)

    Just in case other people notice, the SSL certificate for the Slashdot login page expired today.

  • by Karmashock ( 2415832 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:47PM (#47080777)


    HP is screwed up. Who actually likes their products anymore that has a clue? Even their printers are nothing special anymore. That company has no market. The only time I see HP stuff as at big box stores where they're competing for the least informed computer purchases.

    Does the smart money buy HP? When was the last time it did?... Exactly. HP is a dying company.

    Current management needs to get the axe and the company needs to be restructured there after.

    • A few years ago I had a job where I had to look after blades from IBM and HP. There was no contest. The IBM blades were so much better that I tried to move all of my stuff over to the IBM computers because the HP blades were junk.
      • IBM is nothing to brag about either!

        they are 90% offshore staffed. if you are an american, do not even bother applying for a job at ibm anymore.

        I would not touch IBM shit today with a 10 foot pole.

      • I call BS (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Unless you were comparing ancient P-class HP blades to more recent IBM blades, "no contest" and "junk" are both complete and utter BS. I've also managed a variety of blades and rackmount servers for 10+ years and they're on par with each other, each having both advantages and disadvantages. I actually prefer the HP blades (C-class), especially as of Gen8. The old P-class blades were an interesting attempt but not quite there yet. HP discontinuing the P-class and superseding them with the C-class was the

    • That company has no market. The only time I see HP stuff as at big box stores where they're competing for the least informed computer purchases.

      Does the smart money buy HP?

      HP still has a market in the enterprise space. They're probably still at the top of the heap in mid-range laser printers, and their servers have certainly been far more reliable than Dell's. Their switches are decent, even though Cisco is eating everyone's lunch.

      You're talking about the consumer space, which is low-margin crapola, they'

      • Why would I buy HP stuff in the enterprise space when there are dozen companies that do it better, offer better support, and generally give their customers less grief?

        What does HP actually do well anymore?

        You say their laser printers are good? Are they great though? Because honestly, there is a lot of competition there and I'd avoid HP on principle at this point.

    • HP makes great laptops. Both for home and business. However, their laptops look like cheap knockoffs of MacBooks. They also need to lower their prices. Consumers aren't going to shell out $1K for a laptop anymore (except Apple consumers). What's really shitty is that HP spent a ton of money in stock buybacks. Why did they do this and then fire a ton of employees? It seems to me that the executives in the company are gutting it and running away with the cash.
      • However, their laptops look like cheap knockoffs of MacBooks.

        The HP Envy machines do look like MacBook Air. Others? No. The common EliteBook, ProBook, and the consumer 6xx/2xx or Pavilion line do not look like MacBooks. They are your basic sleek black machine.

  • by bongey ( 974911 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @09:59PM (#47080823)

    MBA1: We should fire all the workers, look how much money we would save. MBA2: Brilliant!!

    • She can't outsource American citizens and make things appear better; that is, other than deporting a bunch of people... which was probably in her campaign platform. (No, I'm not saying that would help the country but it would be consistent reasoning.)
      So... did HP rob the pensions yet?

      How can anybody let her get away saying such extreme BS like that? Corporations and capitalists LOVE to fire employees. That is point of the game; to pay as little as possible and get as much for the shareholders as p

  • by Anonymous Coward

    As others have commented, HP used to be a great company. I have a stack of what used to be very expensive electronics test equipment in my home lab, all of it with an HP label, except for a Tektronix scope. The equipment I have is between 20 and 50 (!!) years old but it works flawlessly and accurately.

    HP started Silicon Valley.

    But Hewlett and Packard died and the bean counters took over.

    HP is the poster child for how greed can completely destroy a company. Simple case in point, an "honest broker" would

    • by Beeftopia ( 1846720 ) on Friday May 23, 2014 @11:31PM (#47081165)

      I discovered the big problem in American business today: Executives can make big money by running a company aground. Enough money so that their grandchildren won't have to work.

      Greenspan thought companies would self regulate. His mistake was subtle: He assumed that the leadership of the company needed the company to be healthy in order for the executives to prosper. But a new pattern emerged: executives could engage in behavior which could yield a multiple-lifetime supply of wealth by engaging in practices which ultimately destroyed the company.

      And that's what happened to the financial sector in the US. And doubtless other companies which yield this particular prize.

      I don't know what the common underlying reason is but this is the common symptom - being able to make the Big Score by running a company aground.

  • The entire premise of this post is built on stupidity escalation.

    Corporations often pass off short-term financial hardship (mainly of the cash flow variety) as a legitimate reason to prune staff—generally fooling no-one, yet successfully biding time in the PR war saying nothing much at all until some new outrage of the moment shifts the spotlight to a different circus ring. Among the best-paid professionals in our society are the engineers of running issues aground against the acidic shoals of going n

  • One of these companies is going to push just a little too hard and have their labor spontaneously unionize. That should be mildly amusing to watch.
  • I remember when HP made really, really (!!) great stuff {sigh}
    Those days are long gone.

    The Woz came from there originally and almost never left because the environment for engineers was just that good but the money grubbing CEOs and B.O.D. killed all that long ago

    Today HP shares only 2 letters with it's former glory and that is not nearly enough.

    HP needs to just die and go away - soon.
  • It's kind of embarrassing how loudly I lol'd when I read that line.

  • It might have worked in the past, but now the mediocre crapware market for everything is dominated by Chinese companies.

APL hackers do it in the quad.