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Canadian Music Industry Wants Subscriber Disclosure Without Court Oversight 211

An anonymous reader writes "The incredible demands of the Canadian music industry as it seeks a massive overhaul of Canadian copyright law continues. It is seeking increased liability for social networking sites, search engines, blogging platforms, video sites, and many other websites featuring third party contributions, plus a new iPod tax, and an extension in the term of copyright. Last week, it went further, demanding a requirement for Internet providers to disclose customer name and address information to copyright owners without court oversight as well as takedowns with no due process and unlimited statutory damages."
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Canadian Music Industry Wants Subscriber Disclosure Without Court Oversight

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  • by elrous0 ( 869638 ) * on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:08PM (#39252611)

    What happened to that Canada I remember, huh? The country to took in draft dodgers during Vietnam? The country that instituted universal healthcare? The country where "liberal" wasn't an insult? The country that wasn't afraid to zig when the U.S. zagged?

    You've changed, man.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:11PM (#39252665)

      Stephen Harper happened.

      • As a Canadian, I can confirm that the above post is an accurate depiction of what happened.
        • by bubkus_jones ( 561139 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @08:53PM (#39256147)

          As much as Stephen Harper has been a pain, and how much people may dislike that he was elected, the point is, every election he's lead the Conservatives, they've increased the number of seats they controlled, while Stephane Dion and Michael Ignatief couldn't even get elected in their home ridings. That's the biggest thing about Liberal supporters that irritates me, these days. They're all "Harper's evil and is ruining this country" and "No one wants Harper" and crap like that, while ignoring the fact that he's getting the votes. As far as the election system goes, the people who voice their opinion (in the only way that counts) want Harper.

          They go on to complain about the ever decreasing voter turnout, but don't think about how it seems to coincide with the ever decreasing of people voting for the Liberals. They want change, an alternative to Harper, but can't offer any viable candidate. The candidates they did find (the aformentioned Dion and Ignatief) were wooden, subpar speakers (from what I saw in various interviews and debates) and seemed rather airheaded. They reminded me of characters I created in middle and high school (grades 6-12) for "creative writing" assignments in English. Harper, to me, seems to have an actual personality, like you could actually converse with him in a normal fashion if you were two people who just happen to pass each other on the street.

      • by DarwinSurvivor ( 1752106 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @05:12PM (#39253675)
        Actually, I believe it started earlier than that. Harper may have started the "privacy" stuff, but we've been bending over to the Americans since NAFTA and the softwood lumber issue started.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by eddy the lip ( 20794 )

          This is true, but the rate that things have accelerated at since last spring scares the living bejeezus out of me.

        • What is the softwood lumber issue, and why would bending over be problematic if wood is soft?

      • by alaffin ( 585965 )

        Harper is just copying what Martin tried many, many moons ago when the Liberals were still relevant. The current bill is not that different from C-60 which was introduced in 2005 by the Liberals. That failed when government fell, as did C-61 and C-32 (which were introduced by the Conservatives). Harper's not any more evil - he's just better at it because he can lead his party to a majority...

    • by the_other_one ( 178565 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:11PM (#39252673) Homepage

      We are now a Harptatorship.

    • by Cabriel ( 803429 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:14PM (#39252727)

      What the Labels want, and what they will get are two different things.

      For example, just because I want a new car and a pony doesn't mean I'll get the pony.

    • by EdIII ( 1114411 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:17PM (#39252789)

      What happened to that Canada I remember, eh?


    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:22PM (#39252879)

      This hasn't passed yet. We massively protested the Lawful Access act(C30) and it's on hold now. Some of their demands are exactly why C30 didn't pass yet. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't pass too. What they are asking isn't in the bill yet, it's their wish list, a very naughty wish list.

      • by SuricouRaven ( 1897204 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:46PM (#39253277)
        That's how politics is done. If you want A, you demand A, B, C, D, E and F... knowing that your opponents will argue strongly, and not give up until they have something of a victory. So they defeat you on B, C, D, E and F, and declare themselves successful - but you get away with A, which is what you wanted all along. Everything else was just to play the game.
        • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:59PM (#39253495)
          We should make a strong counter proposal:

          1) Shorten copyright to 10 years
          2) Remove the levy on blank media
          3) Quit whining about "profits" - you aren't "entitled" to them; you have to go earn them. Yes, this means you don't get any more laws to prop up legacy methods of distribution.
          • This.

            The dark side is always the one controlling the fight.

            The only way there will be any justice for the consumer is if it is us that name the terms of the fight, not them.

          • 4. Mandatory drug tests for all members, agents, employees of CIMA

          • by Yvan256 ( 722131 )

            1) Shorten copyright to 5 years (to be able to "concede" to 10 years).
            2) Remove levy on all blank media AND all devices (portable or not)
            3) (same as you wrote)

      • I don't think that's a fair comparison. C30 was initially pushed by around a half-dozen politicians looking for a power grab and we are STILL fighting it (and probably will be for a quite a while). This proposed bill is being pushed by multi-BILLION dollar corporations who buy politicians just so they can borrow their yacht for the weekend.
    • by argee ( 1327877 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:24PM (#39252903)

      Apparently, draft dodgers is not the only thing we exported across our Northern Border.
      We have apparently also exported limitless greed, avarice, and thirst for power.
      Oh, add corruption, corporatism and entitlement to the list!

      Did I forget anything?

    • by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo ( 1000167 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:36PM (#39253095)

      What happened to that Canada I remember, huh? The country to took in draft dodgers during Vietnam? The country that instituted universal healthcare? The country where "liberal" wasn't an insult? The country that wasn't afraid to zig when the U.S. zagged?

      You've changed, man.

      Amen. Although, in a certain light this may be a good thing. As a United Statsian, I've observed that my own clinically insane government tends to want to distance itself from our northern cousins, maybe (albeit not bloody likely) we'll start to pare back copyright to a more reasonable level. On the other hand, we may simply up the ante and make copyright eleventy billion years. But even that may not be a bad thing, the more ridiculous copyright is, the more people will ignore it. Even right now the average person on the street doesn't see a ethical problem with consuming media that was illegally distributed. Not everything that is immoral is illegal, and not everything that is illegal is immoral.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:48PM (#39253299)

      Basically, history repeating itself. The radical right snuck in.

      Once upon a time, the Republican party in the US were decent and respectable. Case in point, Abe Lincoln. Then Nixon and the rest of his radical right invaded the party and made a dramatic "course correction".

      In Canada, the conservative party used to be a pretty decent set of people. Boring, but trustworthy. Then Brian Mulroney came along, introduced a number of measures that generated so much great deal of dislike ("free trade" and a federal sales tax) for the party that they shrank to a tiny fraction of their former size. The radical right, calling themselves "the Reform Party", were generally regarded as a bunch of dangerous kooks and hence didn't have a chance of getting into power. However, they brokered a merger with the now pitiful Conservative party, gaining a few seats, but more importantly, getting the right to use the "Conservative Party" name. People might have been embarrassed to vote for the Reform Party, but the voting for "Conservative Party" was a family tradition. The new "Conservative Party" eventually managed a few minority governments because the center and left wing votes were split among too many other parties before eventually winning a majority government.

      And yes, most of us are embarrassed by being represented by Stephen Harper as you were when George Bush Jr was in power.

      • by sconeu ( 64226 )

        Not Nixon. Reagan. Nixon would be lambasted as a RINO these days.

        • Forget Nixon, REAGAN would be lambasted as a RINO if he went into the Republican race today. Like all hero worship, the actions that don't conform to current ideology are conveniently ignored.

    • Harper gained a majority government

      • That's up for debate.

        If the Liberals or NDP are behind the robocalls and election tampering, a judicial inquiry would destroy those two leaderless parties.

        For some reason, the most politically astute opportunist in Canadian history (Harper) is choosing not to call for an inquiry and letting the opponent he's sworn to destroy at any cost (The LPC) recuperate.

    • Simple the USSA let the corps become so damned powerful that they spread like a cancer across the land, that's what. When you can have congressman stand there with a straight face and say there is nothing wrong with copyright terms even though most of Walt Disney's FIRST works, made when planes were made of cloth and antibiotics were just a dream, is STILL under copyright and will be long after anyone reading this is dead? Well you can just give it up chuck.

      Frankly there is only one thing we can do now, and

    • The country to took in draft dodgers during Vietnam?

      False. They only took people before they were drafted. Once the person here received a actual draft order by the military, Canada did not help them (not officially, anyway).

      The country where "liberal" wasn't an insult?

      It's an insult from anyone who's conservative. It just happens to be that, unlike here in the US, politics is not a professional sponsored sport, but a serious civil matter where citizens and politicians both give measured and well-reasoned responses to questions posed to them. But then, that's true almost anywhere in the first world, e

    • The ones most likely to dodge the draft during Vietnam were also the ones most likely to become record company executives when they reached middle age. Unintended consequences, eh?
  • by viperidaenz ( 2515578 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:09PM (#39252625)
    Since there isn't an unlimited amount of money in the world, the safest option is to set it to zero.
  • by Wild_dog! ( 98536 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:09PM (#39252637)

    Talk about the apparent obliteration of citizens rights.... I thought the US was starting to turn to the darkside, but Canada is working hard eh?

  • Color me shocked (Score:5, Informative)

    by MonsterTrimble ( 1205334 ) <> on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:11PM (#39252667)
    The CRIA is the canadian arm of the RIAA. They just reached a settlement to pay $47.5 million to songwriters which they had been screwing for decades [] Why is anyone surprised they would try for this?
    • My bad - it's the Canadian Independent Music Association (CIMA) [], not the CRIA.
    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      The CRIA is the canadian arm of the RIAA

      Yes, it is. In fact, most of the Canadian labels LEFT CRIA! They had serious disagreements over suing those who pirated (like the RIAA labels did) and most left. What's left are the big three, and it's not really representing Canadian music at all.

      As an aside, who wants to bet that this is the REAL reason why that spy bill was introduced? Not for the police, but for the music and movie industry?

      • My brother signed a deal with Universal. They sold some records, did okay, then Universal decided that they would just do whatever they wanted and ignore the contract. "After all, we've got more lawyers..."

        They went from offering tens of thousands for each band member when signing -- to handing them a bill for $50k when they asked for the cash. "Oh, after pressing, studio time, distribution, it looks like you owe us a fortune."

        My brother and his bandmates called Universal's bluff, but they ended up walki

      • by Maow ( 620678 )

        As an aside, who wants to bet that this is the REAL reason why that spy bill was introduced? Not for the police, but for the music and movie industry?

        In light of the robo-call fiasco, among other instances of election fraud committed by Conservatives, and the fact that the "spying bill" allowed for anyone designated by the minister to harvest records from ISPs, I'd be my money on the spying bill being to dig dirt on future opposition candidates to ensure there will never be another free & fair election again.

        Imagine a bunch of conbot hacks pulling records on Liberal & NDP candidates and releasing anything remotely unsavoury about them during the

    • They were young and needed the money?
  • Whenever this comes up it seems like the music industry behaves like a frightened animal in every single instance. Why doesn't it try to play it cool? Surely they must realize how these things sound to others? Or is "I want everything and the kitchen sink and I want it now" an actual, valid legal tactic that's reasonable given their circumstances?
  • by ilsaloving ( 1534307 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:14PM (#39252731)

    Hey, USA! *holds up rat traps with RIAA lawyers attached*

    We found these in our garage. We left some money on a shelf the other day, figuring it would be ok, but it looks like these lil guys detected the scent and chewed their way inside. Do you want them back, or should we just take them to animal control to be euthanized?

  • by wbr1 ( 2538558 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:16PM (#39252781)
    ...only slightly more obviously for sale than American law.
  • by the_fat_kid ( 1094399 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:17PM (#39252791)

    I want a pony.
    doesn't mean it will happen.

  • by NoKaOi ( 1415755 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:17PM (#39252801)
    Does the Canadian constitution guarantee due process like the US's does? If so, does Canada ignore the constitution as readily as the US does? That said, this isn't really news, is it? They've been trying in the US, trying in the EU, etc, so of course they're gonna try in Canada. The news will be how well they succeed.
    • Re:Constitution? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <> on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:34PM (#39253071) Homepage

      Our charter? Yeah it does. Actually a significant portion of the charter covers prosecution and protection from the law, of law, and other such sundry things. This will get no where because it has no basis in canadian law, fair dealing takes care of it. And that they've already agreed to the levy, means that they already get money. In turn the courts will toss this right out and slap them with yet another fine.

    • It guarantees privacy among other things. Having your ISP record everything you do without a warrant is simply not constitutional and wouldn't get past the SCC.

      The other problem, and this is where they'll fuck it up, is that the loser pays court costs. It's not like in the US where the threat of a lawsuit means you're out tens of thousands to defend against the frivolous. If they were to try and sue someone, that person could easily have the "evidence" suppressed because the search isn't lawful.


  • Anyone found to have downloaded, listened to, performed (including whistling, humming, and spoken-word), mentioned, or remembered, whether intentionally, unintentionally, or involuntarily, any music that cannot be proven to not be covered by copyright or potentially covered by copyright in the future, or anyone in possession of any digital copies of music without a DRM spinal shunt, will be required to send their virgin daughters upon reaching age 16 for inspection to:

    Royal Canadian Music Industry Headquarters
    Mount Doom, Canada

    Any daughters found to be desirable will be held until no longer useful. If your daughter is held, you will be responsible for a $4,000 monthly sustenance fee until such time as she is released. Anyone not in compliance with the above policies will be sued unto death or capitulation.

  • So whats new? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Master Moose ( 1243274 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:18PM (#39252811) Homepage

    The recording industry makes unreasonable demands. . Cue 500 angry comments on Slashdot and other similar sites

    Rinse, Repeat.

    Is this the recording indusries plan? To beat the public and legistlators into submission with their continued and relentless demands?

    To spam each country with such requests in the hope that one will be foolish enough to fall for it? I never knew that big Media emerged from Nigeria

  • Ipod Tax (Score:2, Flamebait)

    Isn't that the premium you pay for anything with an apple logo on it?

  • by lexsird ( 1208192 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:29PM (#39252985)

    The music and movie industry has an outlandish sense of entitlement that I think need jammed straight up their tailpipes. I had this argument today with a friend and I told him both of these industries are failing because their time has passed, the digital age has not only toppled their tight fisted distribution systems, but it's open the doors for the masses to be creative. Hence their days, like the stage coach before cars and highways, has passed.

    Neither of these archaic industries are worth sacrificing the freedoms of the Internet for. I guess we will have to put them against the wall when the times comes as well.

  • by volts ( 515080 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:41PM (#39253179) Homepage

    We just had a major shit-storm in Canada over a government bill (C-30) that would allow the police the right to identifying information without a warrant. The bill has been hustled off to committee for amendment as a result of public outrage. Government politician must be rolling their eyes at the timing of CIMA's demands.

    • by Maow ( 620678 )

      We just had a major shit-storm in Canada over a government bill (C-30) that would allow the police the right to identifying information without a warrant.

      Far worse than that. It allows anyone designated by the minister to this information.

      As I posted above, and in light of robo-calls, In & Out scandel, Chuck Cadman bribery offer, etc. ad nauseam, C-30 is to allow Conservative hacks to dig dirt on opposition candidates, to be release during next campaign, ensuring no more free & fair elections and a permanent Conservative majority.

      If you thought the attack ads on Ignatief were bad last election (and 2 years preceding it), prepare for it to become per

  • by RichMan ( 8097 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:42PM (#39253219)

    Somehow I don't think writing a blog entry 5 years ago will qualify me as a "copyright owner" able to fire undocumented takedown notices and request unlimited statutory damages. "copyright owner" as used here means very specific media distributors. It does not mean real creators.

  • ...When the component of the conventional music industry that makes money from penalties and lawsuits exceeds the component of the conventional music industry that makes music. Eventually, they will only exist as an IP troll.

    And only little girls will ride horses, man will walk on the moon, oh wait. That's already happened. And so has this, apparently.

  • Well ...these "intermediate" guys are close to extinction...they got as much as they could from artists, musicians, movies.....and now the consumer downloads the music or movie almost from the source. No more need of packaging, logistics, marketing, etc....(and also, they always " triple priced " everything between their own companies to wash some $, of course) So now they are begging for some change, because "the people is downloading music or movies". The real problem is when people in the Govt is "temp
  • by roc97007 ( 608802 ) on Monday March 05, 2012 @04:58PM (#39253487) Journal a regularly updated list of the music companies behind the worst of this legislation, prioritized by level of involvement or heinousness of the action, and the artists they represent. Then we can make a knowledgeable decision as consumers, whom to spend our money on. One could say "sucks to be those artists", but they don't get but a tiny fraction of music sales in a traditional contract anyway, and maybe the move will encourage more artists to go independent.

  • plus a new iPod tax

    As a web developer here in Canada I am demanding a browser tax for every Canadian that views my websites via a browser. I am losing gajjillions of dollars every year because Canadians are "View Sourcing" my HTML/CSS/JS and copying it wholesale to make their own websites.

    Every Canadian must pay a tax for each browser they use to me because I am too stupid to learn how to create other streams of revenue in this new digital world. I will instead sit on my pony in Hollywood and/or Hogtown and demand that my l

  • Pretty soon they'll just come right out and tell the government "Give us all your money and don't ask any questions".

    Oh wait... they just did.

    "without court oversight as well as takedowns with no due process and unlimited statutory damages"

  • You'll never completely stop copyright infringement.

    I think rather this is a tactic to use liability as a weapon against the competition.

    Find a website that hurts your business, go snooping for copyright infringing users, use liability to get the site shut down.

  • " People in Hell want ice water ".

  • your iThingie will play English in the left earpiece, and Quebec French in the right earpiece, or you will be jailed.

  • I predict it will have the same resounding success as the war on drugs, hunger, terror and of course REAL piracy. If after hundreds of years, we still can't get rid of real pirates when men in little boats are faced with gunships and destroyers... what the fuck hell chance does the music industry stand?

    How long has to war on drugs lasted now? And the price of drugs is lower then ever, the supply richer and more varied then ever and the quality sky high. And this is a physical good that has to be moved aroun

  • And not just because their name was both an oxymoron, and yet somehow clever?

    Seriously, the PCs and the Liberals were harmless, exactly as the Conservatives are not.

"How many teamsters does it take to screw in a light bulb?" "FIFTEEN!! YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?"