Toshiba Execs Declare HD DVD Not Dead Yet 516
Lucas123 writes "HD DVD proponent Toshiba remains defiant that its format will not succumb to the mounting tsunami of support for Blu-ray Discs. Akio Ozaka, head of Toshiba America Consumer Products, said at CES today that he was surprised by Warner's decision." It should also be noted that the HD DVD group has cancelled many of their meetings at CES.
It's only MOSTLY dead. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's only MOSTLY dead. (Score:5, Funny)
Not dead yet: Toshiba execs standing there with stopwatches saying "Wait for it... wait for it..."
Re:It's only MOSTLY dead. (Score:4, Interesting)
Regardless, I'm holding out until the next big thing (tm).
Re:It's only MOSTLY dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's funny because I would personally choose HD DVD if I were to judge by names. It gives the impression of being just another rock solid format like CD-R or DVD-RW.
Blu-ray, on the other hand, sounds like just another marketing invention, without any serious consideration of the implications of its widespread usage, etc.
Re:It's only MOSTLY dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
Then sitting lonely on a shelf is a Toshiba HD-E1 'HDDVD Player' at £200 - 5 times the cost of all the others - and nobody buys because they assume it's more of the same.
OTOH Bluray is clearly different, so people are more likely to ask questions and consider it to be something different.
Re:It's only MOSTLY dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
Good to see that conventional "wisdom" is as useless as ever.
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From a production studio perspective, it has better DRM. HD-DVD DRM was cracked pretty early on, and I bet that caused studio execs to wet their pants. Blu-ray (and BD+) were cracked later, but firsts often matter more.
HD-DVD has... very little to compete with Blu-ray. Independent examinations
Re:It's only MOSTLY dead. (Score:4, Informative)
DRM's holy grail (Score:4, Funny)
"What?"
""Nothing -- here's your nine pence."
"I'm not dead!"
"Here -- he says he's not dead!"
"Yes, he is."
"I'm not!"
"He isn't."
"Well, he will be soon, he's very ill."
"I'm getting better!"
"No, you're not -- you'll be stone dead in a moment."
"h, I can't take him like that -- it's against regulations."
"I don't want to go in the cart!"
"Oh, don't be such a baby."
"I can't take him..."
"I feel fine!"
"Oh, do us a favor..."
"I can't."
"Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long."
"Naaah, I got to go on to SCO's -- they've lost nine today."
"Well, when is your next round?"
"Thursday."
"I think I'll go for a walk."
"You're not fooling anyone y'know. Look, isn't there something you can do?"
"I feel happy... I feel happy.
[whap]"
"Ah, thanks very much."
"Not at all. See you on Thursday."
"Right."
Re:It's only MOSTLY dead. (Score:4, Funny)
It ain't over till the fat lady sings... (Score:5, Funny)
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"No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting."
Endless recreations of the Dead Parrot Sketch (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Endless recreations of the Dead Parrot Sketch (Score:5, Funny)
Toshiba declares that HD-DVD feels happy, would like to go for a walk.
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"I want to go for a walk!"
"You're not fooling anyone, you know."
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Black Knight, anyone? (Score:5, Funny)
Toshiba Fell Victim To The Xbox Demographic (Score:2, Interesting)
Toshiba fell victim to believing HD-DVD was going to ever be supported by anyone beyond that niche demographic. And it cost hundreds of millions in their losing battle against BluRay.
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Despite how much I like the HD-DVD format more than Blu-Ray Toshiba really needs to just throw in the towel at this point and do the consumer market a favor...
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good start (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Toshiba Fell Victim To The Xbox Demographic (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Toshiba Fell Victim To The Xbox Demographic (Score:5, Informative)
How would they demand that? Microsoft simply does not care about HD-DVD enough to risk tanking it's game console like Sony did (by forcing the price up for something that doesn't actually help games).
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Then theres also just really huge(as in span) games like the Final Fantasy series. Up the graphics, multiply it by game length..
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Many sports and racing games could benefit from additional space for videos also - I'd happily watch a bit of HD video of the new Nissan GT-R if it was included in Gran Turismo 5.
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In a year or so i'll be picking up a PS3, and then the ol' HD-DVD drive can go in a closet.
War would have ended if HD-DVD shipped in Elite (Score:5, Interesting)
That move would have won the format war outright.
A little less clear, but I feel just as certain victory would have Microsoft include HD-DVD with the Elite model. That would have been around the time of the Paramount switch, and the momentum of those two moves would have fed off each other to spook people away from Blu-Ray and probably get either Fox or Disney to go neutral in teh same way the Warner move has spooked people off HD-DVD and probably is forcing retailers and consumers to support Blu-Ray exclusively very soon.. It's not like you can really argue at that point it would have made the 360 cost prohibitive since it would only be on the top-line model anyway.
Just as Sony won the format war through costly initial action, so Microsoft helped destroy HD-DVD through penny-pinching inaction. I guess Toshiba should have tried to wire the HD-DVD contract with the Three Laws of HD-DVD media.
Unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
Doubtful. But it would certainly have subjected the 360 to the same cost and time overruns that the PS3 suffered from.
No-one would argue that much of the 360's current success is due to it launching a year earlier with a cheaper price. Making the HD disc player optional might (in the long run) make it harder for devs to squeeze large games in, but definitely kept the console cheaper and simpler for the so-crucial first couple of years of its life.
As for putting it in the Elite, its sales weren't large enough to make much difference to Toshiba, and increasing the cost would not have helped that. Armchair analysts can call it "penny pinching", but in the world of business, the user always pays in the end. Sony's decision to sacrifice their Playstation brand on the altar of Blu-Ray success has cost them dearly [variety.com], at least in the short term.
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Much of their success is directly attributable to launching early and getting some early band
Re:War would have ended if HD-DVD shipped in Elite (Score:4, Insightful)
why would microsoft care? They came out with a cheaper console, have a lot more market share (and better games) for now, and since hd-dvd has lost I bet they will come out with a blue-ray add-on for the xbox before the end of the year. Sony bet everything on blue-ray, MS just stood on the sidelines and focused on the console and games, without caring too much about the blue-ray/hd-dvd angle, knowing that no matter who won they could come out with an external player without risking being on the losing side.
Re:Toshiba Fell Victim To The Xbox Demographic (Score:5, Insightful)
Not just Sony! (Score:5, Informative)
From wikipedia:
The current 18 board members (as of December 2007) are:
* Apple Inc.
* Dell
* Hewlett Packard
* Hitachi
* LG Electronics
* Mitsubishi Electric
* Panasonic (Matsushita Electric)
* Pioneer Corporation
* Royal Philips Electronics
* Samsung Electronics
* Sharp Corporation
* Sony Corporation
* Sun Microsystems
* TDK Corporation
* Thomson
* Twentieth Century Fox
* Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group / Buena Vista Home Entertainment
* Warner Home Video Inc. (Exclusively as of January 4 2008)
Re:Toshiba Fell Victim To The Xbox Demographic (Score:5, Interesting)
If Blu-ray becomes the dominant video format (over DVD and downloads), how much income (from sales and licensing) does this bring to Sony? I know Blu-ray is primarily "Sony's format," but there's a lot of "partners" in the Blu-ray Disc Association. Will this Blu-ray related income be worth the loss in gaming income?
Year: Gaming operating income/(loss), total operating income
2007: (¥232 billion), ¥72 billion
2006: 9, 226
2005: 43, 146
2004: 68, 99
2003: 113, 185
2002: 83, 135
2001: (51), 225
2000: 77, 223
1999: 136, 339
1998: 117, 520
Sony's Annual Reports (big freakin' PDF files): http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/Archive.html [sony.net]
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Spoken like a true frothing-from-the-mouth Microsoft fanboy.
Sony has only "pushed" Blu-ray onto the PS3. Some may argue it was needed for the betterment of next-gen games.
Sony has allowed the PS3 users to incorporate standard hard drives, headsets, USB keyboards, Linux onto their system. No root-kitting involved whatsoever.
Were you talking about another product? If so, then it's off-topic, because as we know, Microsoft has
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If true, that is by far one of the most alarming statistics I have ever read. If large cooperations marketing has succeeded to the point that there are 10 million people that will not buy a company's product regardless of its technical merits and price point, we've reached a truly low point in society.
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There are some 10-15 million rabid Sony hating Xbox/Microsoft fans in the US. They will support any 'not Sony format' with a fanatical commitment
If true, that is by far one of the most alarming statistics I have ever read. If large cooperations marketing has succeeded to the point that there are 10 million people that will not buy a company's product regardless of its technical merits and price point, we've reached a truly low point in society.
Large corporate marketing has succeeded to the point that there are millions of people in the US who will buy a product regardless of it's technical merits and price point. (cue MS jokes) The problem is that nobody is an expert in everything, and sometimes we have to make uninformed decisions.
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They should choose their friends well (Score:3, Informative)
There are some 10-15 million rabid Sony hating Xbox/Microsoft fans in the US. They will support any 'not Sony format' with a fanatical commitment that is easily mistaken for broad consumer support.
Toshiba fell victim to believing HD-DVD was going to ever be supported by anyone beyond that niche demographic. And it cost hundreds of millions in their losing battle against BluRay.
HD DVD could be a serious competitor if there wasn't MS and their OS fascist media division wasn't involved. They showed signs of "Windows only" from the start, they could sit and write HD DVD.Framework via XCode to support OS X, they could release a not cheap but working fine Quicktime export plugin for VC-1, they could make Roxio (Adaptec) support HD-DVD recorders on their OS X consumer products, they could help Linux guys sort out basic data recording, they could plug into OS X professional tools like F
Re:Toshiba Fell Victim To The Xbox Demographic (Score:5, Insightful)
I like the part where you complain about fanboyism, and then immediately start going into wild speculation about "divx-like lockdowns and timed rentals", then follow that up with complaints of "selective buyouts" that both sides were doing.
Frankly, I'm just glad the whole thing's over, so that hopefully the burners will start getting more common/cheaper.
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Re:Toshiba Fell Victim To The Xbox Demographic (Score:5, Insightful)
Buying a Big Mac isn't obligatory, but when I do I pay tax on it. It still is tax.
Blu-ray comes with a significant price premium -- for both technical and licensing reasons -- over HD-DVD. Add the value of combo discs that you can get for HD-DVD, but not Blu-ray, and the average household either has to upgrade wholesale at once (have fun getting a blu-ray player for the SUV), or buy all media twice.
Blu-ray is a much more expensive proposition for exactly the same end result.
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Jens
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Re:Toshiba Fell Victim To The Xbox Demographic (Score:5, Insightful)
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It is also more expensive because, outside of the PS3, hardware manufacturers aren't subsidizing Blu-Ray. Toshiba has been selling HD DVD players at a loss for some time now. In essence, they were dumping them. And THAT is why they are just about the only ones making HD DVD players. Technology needs to drop in price naturally. There is NO incentive for hardware companies to sell disc players at a loss,
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I don't believe that for a second. HD DVD and Blu Ray are so close to each other in terms of their system requirements, their technical specifications and the standards they implement that I doubt there is any significant difference in the cost of either.
If HD DVD appeared cheaper (appeared being the operative word), it is more likely due to Toshiba being the sole provider of HD DVD players while
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Bluray $337 [amazon.com]
HDDVD $299 [amazon.com]
Or if you're into bundles, Walmart to a PS3 and 15 free disks for $499.
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Blu-ray is alive today only because a punch of pimply-faced teens got a PS3 for Christmas, and suddenly believed that they had to defend all things Sony, including the blu-ray format that they happened into by chance.
While I own neither a PS3 nor an XBox 360, I find it funny, how the PS3 is usually getting slammed for being too expensive, having no cool exclusive titles and generally not seilling well - however as soon as we're talking about BluRay, it's suddenly supposed to be this Juggernaut driving out the other HD format. Could all the fanboys please decide whether they want to bah it for being a failure or for being too successful?
Adaptive encryption...yeah, expect divx like lock-downs and timed rentals soon enough with blu-ray.
Rentals are always timed in some way or other - that's what makes them different fr
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I think the disparity is probably more an indication of just how few people care about HD formats at the moment. Sure there's enough people to make some noise, but when a "poorly-selling" console is able to "dominate" the market it tells you that the market isn't particularly large. It also suggests that a significant number of people are getting a HD player not because they specifically want one, but because the console they've bought happens to include it.
That's not necessarily a bad marketing / sales s
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
porn is blue ray is it not? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:porn is blue ray is it not? (Score:5, Funny)
Just don't use a blacklight, you'll never know what you'll find.
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Re:porn is blue ray is it not? (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:porn is blue ray is it not? (Score:5, Funny)
Now, if you'll excuse me, I must address a popup window about squirting teens.
Toshiba (Score:3, Insightful)
Blu-ray isn't the end of the world for them, as Japanese businesses are kinda incestuous and Toshiba has its own set of investments. Toshiba will make plenty of money, just not as much as they did last round.
I'm curious how Paramount deals with this. Does their contract (with MS or Toshiba) have an escape clause?
Anyway, HD DVD is done. Toshi can't be overtly honest about it until they get rid of some inventory. I saw a couple of people returning their HD DVD players, presumably from Christmas, to Target tonight. Are these people picking up PS3s? Probably some are. It's not like HD DVD owners should toss their systems, and I actually think they might be in for a pleasant round of super cheap movies and spare players.
And the Xbox 360 might even be helped by this. Think about it, the XBOX is not quiet enough to play a disc movie, at least for a lot of people. But it's just fine for downloads. Microsoft may ramp up and accelerate their download service now that this war is ending, instead of gaming each company against eachother like fools to slow adoption. Ps2 owners are slow adopted, but in my opinion 360 owners are fast adopters, and the console is more internet oriented. These people are much more likely to download movies, and I think the 360 is going to continue to do very well.
Warner did the right thing, and I'm confident there will be much more progress in HD movies. I think these films look much better than DVD, and while DVDs were much more of a revolution in technology, Blu-ray is a real step up that downloads cannot hope to compete with in the US.
We all knew this was going to end, and most of us realized bluray was going to win out. Warner had no leverage to end Blu-ray, so they used their power very effectively. And may have been planning this out. I expect to see Warner's movies all over Microsoft's system. I bet this was well known to MS, and the announcement the two companies have planned has to do with the 360's downloads.
In short, this is going to work out fine for everybody.
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When exactly did the PS3 start outselling the 360? In Nov for example the 360 sold 770k and the PS3 only sold 466K according to NPD. Here is a decent graph [vgchartz.com] of sales over the last year to show that the PS3 worldwide isn't closing the gap.
blueray hd dvd? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Most Blu-Ray discs region free (Score:2)
It's more widely understood by studios that region coding is not as good for sales, they only use it for regional control now. I had also
Re:Most Blu-Ray discs region free (Score:5, Insightful)
>in the UK) are region free on Blu-Ray as well.
Yes, now they are, when they are "fighting" versus HD DVD. But who knows about the future and when there is only Blu-ray?
>It's more widely understood by studios that region coding is
>not as good for sales, they only use it for regional control now.
So how come most DVD still have region coding?
Re:blueray hd dvd? (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
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OK, I'll correct you. It's actually spelled Blu-ray [blu-ray.com] and it's not a fad. Stupid yes, but not a fad.
Welcome to the Betamax theory of CE (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically all media come in two formats: A cheap and popular version and a marginally technically better but far more expensive version that hangs on but never holds sway. The better more expensive version always takes the lead early on because early adopters are willing to pay premium prices for quality products. Then the R&D giant behind it leverages the popularity to ramp the licensing cost at just the wrong inflection of the demand curve, driving consumers to the adequate and cheap version until you can't find content in the high quality version any more and Betamax version buyers lose all their investment in quality equipment and content.
It's easy know which version is which because Sony is almost always behind the expensive one.
SCSI, and all the iSAS evolved variants, are examples of the Betamax of hard drives. Notice you can't get one in decent capacity for any price these days?
It's like watching all the Friday the 13th sequels actually. Each time it looks like it's going to be a new movie, and then it's the same movie all over again.
As an HD-DVD developer... (Score:5, Interesting)
Not really. I thought so too, but in practice, HD-DVD wins. (And I'm not just saying this because of my job; for all I know, our company will be forced into Blu-Ray, or something completely different.)
What Blu-Ray has going for it (other than this latest blow) is capacity and bandwidth, and a ton of empty promises about features which are mostly not implemented. And capacity, at least, was rumored to be about killed by some triple-layer HD-DVD format, which would beat dual-layer Blu-Ray by a gig.
What HD-DVD has (had?) is price and features. Since people are pronouncing the format dead, I think I'm entitled to one last rant -- I am an HD-DVD developer.
So here's how it breaks down: Blu-Ray requires entirely new equipment to press. HD-DVD can modify existing DVD equipment. There have also been (barely) sub-$100 HD-DVD players at some point -- that's yet to happen for Blu-Ray, cheapest I've seen is a $200 drive (not a standalone player).
The price of the discs is mostly irrelevant, as now is really not the time to be buying discs to keep. But I would expect them to be cheaper, and there was also the strange run of dual-format (HD-DVD and standard DVD) discs -- literally two-sided, side A for HD, side B for DVD.
Now, as to the actual technologies... Note that I have not actually seen a Blu-Ray disc play, so all of this is from what I've heard my co-workers say, and I don't remember it incredibly well. But the HD-DVD information should be dead accurate.
To start with, Blu-Ray requires AACS, and supports region coding and something called "BD-Mark". Meanwhile, HD-DVD has optional AACS (though some features are inaccessible to unencrypted discs), and does not support region coding. So even if you hate Microsoft, as a geek, you really want HD-DVD to win, for that reason.
It also supports standard dual-layer DVDs as a medium. Same HD content, good codecs (VC1, h.264, etc), scripting, but if it fits in 9 gigs, you can burn it to a cheaper disc. I don't know if it actually supports single-layer DVDs (though I imagine it does), or CDs (though I doubt it). So, low-capacity all the way up to the proposed triple-layer makes it more flexible than Blu-Ray in terms of disc format.
Blu-Ray is Java. HD-DVD is JavaScript. Having used both languages, I'm amazed anyone would argue for Java, but people do. And it almost seemed logical -- I expected the Java to be faster, but it's not.
Let that sink in a moment. In the actual, real-world use, any Blu-Ray player other than the PS3 is slow as hell with simple menu animations. By "slow as hell", I mean you will actually see it redrawing each frame in blocks, for a tiny menu taking up maybe an eighth of the screen. HD-DVD, on the other hand... Well, I can make it slow, but not that slow. Half-second animations that take up half the screen are, at worst, a little jerky, but never do you see it redrawing in chunks like that.
Now, just guessing, but I suspect that Blu-Ray hands over more control to the Java itself -- that is, it is actual Java code doing those animations. Not so with HD-DVD -- I just tell it to change some property (x, y, width, height, opacity, etc) by some amount over some duration, and let the player handle the rest -- probably with native code, probably a good chunk of it in video hardware.
And, from what I've heard through the grapevine, Warner's actual tech people agree with me -- they'd much rather work with HD-DVD and with JavaScript. So this smells like an executive decision, made for strategic reasons, not technical ones, and certainly not with the consumer in mind.
HD-DVD also has a much stronger base of what's required. Even in those sub-$100 players, you get:
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Is that really true? (Score:4, Insightful)
Is the process really so different that it's easier to build an entire new plant rather than retool an existing DVD plant?
Harder than HD-DVD I can understand, but assuming BRD has won the format war (especially depressing as consumers haven't really had a say yet), I find it hard to believe DVD plants will basically be gutted and replaced as they phase out and BRD phases in.
Cheaper already, and you forget about Deep Color.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Since many millions more discs have been pressed in Blu-Ray (thanks to PS3 games) the production costs have dropped substantially. And the consumer only sees movie prices which have remained identical between the two formats.
more for the drives
Sony just announced a $200 PC BD-ROM. How much are HD-DVD ROM's again? Scale shows advantage once again.
and it natively supports region locking and other consumer nightmares.
Most titles do not use the region controls, and there are fewer regions than DVD had - which means greater, not lesser, consumer acceptance of the format on region bounds.
Plus, the storage capacity of HD-DVD (the other thing commonly touted as it's inferiority) is more than plenty for 1K HD content,
Not if you also want lossless audio, or have a longer movie with a lot of detail. Then you have to make sacrifices. You've also forgotten that this is the year some systems will start to support Deep Color in HDMI 1.3, and we'll start to see movies support that as well. A greater bit-depth for color requires more space.
You go pick which is more important to you.
As an engineer it has always seemed pretty obvious to me.
Stop the Moderating Madness! Mod Parent Down (Score:3, Interesting)
Stop the color madness now. And I mean Right Now. In order to get you to consume DRM equipment, they are selling you a convenient fiction called "Deep Color." HDMI is a Trojan Horse and Deep Color is an absurd lie used to get DRM through the consumers front door.
This is one takes too long to explain and requires some ****actual**** technical knowledge of
More than that... (Score:3, Informative)
HD-DVD is also region-free. There is no option whatsoever for region coding. If you really wanted to, you could release a multi-region, encrypted HD-DVD which adapted based on the default language of the player, or even a GeoIP lookup if they have it
They are both Laserdisc 2.0 anyway (Score:3, Insightful)
And when does that take off (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean, another Microsoft cable box attempt? Are they going to give everyone a Surface table for a penny?
From whence comes salvation? All is quiet. (Score:4, Insightful)
Paramount and Universal will be doubly screwed now until they come to Blu-Ray - no-one will buy HD-DVD titles in any numbers to speak of, and lots of people may shy away from any SD DVD's until those studios move to Blu-Ray and produce an HD title to buy. I know I had stopped buying DVD's for over a year now, thinking that anything I liked enough to buy could wait for on HD.
The topic (Score:4, Funny)
Pissed off consumers (Score:5, Interesting)
Nice, so, all the people that spent $$$$ on some HD-DVD player or Xbox attachment are going to be mighty pissed off, as they have once again, fallen into what I call the High-Def money pit, where you have to constantly buy some new gizmo because the holders of the DRM willy nilly decide to change things.
How many TVs were sold as HD-ready, only to not be? How many 720p sets or even 1080i sets still don't have an HDMI connection? And let's not even get into Vista Media Center, or any of the other depricated formats that have lead to technological dead-ends and/or having to re-buy the same media all over again (MLB, anyone?)...
If I had been stupid enough to even join in the HD revolution, I'd be pissed off enough to start suing every company that dropped the ball. I'd start with demanding my money back, and when they refused, I'd start throwing lawyers into the mix.
I can't decide who's going to be marching on corporate america first with torches and pitchforks -- the early-adopters of HD, or those screwed out of TV when we switch to digital in Feb of 2009.
Either way there are going to be some demanding their pound of flesh. I just want to sit back and watch the whole thing -- in regular NTSC of course, because regular TV is good enough when you consider the content available.
TTYL
The new HD-DVD meme. Not easy nor cheap. (Score:5, Insightful)
Pay attention everyone, this is the new meme that all the cool HD kids are spreading now in some kind of bizarre "Scorched Earth" strategy meant to destroy both formats, after all Sony must die right?
Well lets think about both your arguments:
1) Easier. To play HD content from a disc I just place a disc in a player, and it's playing. To get HD content online I have to decide to buy it from somewhere (and have an internet connection to my system at the TV). Then I have to wait for it to buffer enough to start watching. And then I have to watch a greatly compressed video/audio experience that makes buying a decent HD set a waste. Or I can go for a torrent, and spend days downloading a full quality mvoie only risking many thousands of dollars in fines if a torrent that I must leave up for days on end is discovered. If I downloaded the content legally and want to share it with a friend I can't do that. If I downloaded it legally I load them a hard drive (!). If I have physical media, I just loan them a disc (unless - sweet irony! I have a BD burner and they have a BD-ROM, in which case I can burn a disc).
How was that easier?
2) Cheaper. Yes free is certainly cheap, though of dubious ethical value. Online downloads? Cheap indeed but either they are (a) very cheap and the media expires shortly, or (b) actually rather expensive for the same non-portable highly compressed content I mentioned before. And in the meantime I can rent Blu-Ray discs from Netflix more cheaply than any online service, and probably get them faster than a torrent and cheaper than legal online HD media.
Unskippable crap... (Score:3, Insightful)
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You're doing something SERIOUSLY wrong then. Movies don't usually come in executable format, you know.
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That is true. But I think there's a valid question of whether it's easy once you do have such a device. And I think that there's a market for cheap set-top boxes there.
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Both formats are irrelevant, its easier and cheaper to just download HD content. Who wants to mess around with discs?
Do you think you could hook me up with your supplier of 100 MBit or faster internet access for really cheap? I don't think people who are buying 1080p TV's and either have no broadband available in their area or only have access to either Cable or DSL broadband are going to be interested in buying huge HDs to store all of the content, settle for heavily compressed 720p content with limited audio track options or wait for hours for the content to download.
Toshiba should avenge the HD-DVD by reinventing it (Score:5, Interesting)
This will allow cheap HD-DVD devices and disks to be made in China and dumped into the US market. These will be used by people wanting to rip, burn, and trade the BlueRay DVDs available in the market. That would be sweet revenge
There is a huge market potential for HD-DVD in backups.
-anandsr
open it up (Score:3)
Of course, it looks to me like disks are pretty much dead anyway; just like there won't be a successor format for the CD, there may not be a successor format to the DVD either.
Excellent news (Score:3, Interesting)
As soon as there is a definitive loser in the hi-def wars, the loser will drop their prices to next-to-zero to spite the winner. And either disc would make an excellent data storage medium if the price was right.
The war might be over, but the battles will go on. (Score:3, Interesting)
Probably.
With nearly everybody exclusively Blu Ray now, I doubt if HD-DVD Can recover from this blow. Personally, I hadn't made a HD Disc Player purchase yet. I haven't yet seen picture quality above and beyond what my DVD player can produce to warrant the upgrade. Maybe if I got a bigger TV, I might see a difference.
I was kind of hoping that HD-DVD would continue to win support and edge out Blu Ray for dominance. HD-DVD seemed up to the task, looked cheaper for the players, and seemed stable. Blu Ray, on the other hand, I've heard nasty things about, like that not all the players will play all Blu Ray discs. Also, I've heard that there is a Blu Ray 2.0 which is in the works, and some of the older 1.x discs may have problems... And the HD-DVD players are cheap, too.
I read somewhere that WB chose Blu Ray because of a recent surge in it's popularity, especialy in December... Uh, can we say Cristmas? Take that number and subtract the number of Playstation 3s sold in the same month. Trust me, Mom and Dad bought that PS3 for Timmy to play games, not to watch Blu Ray DVDs. *sigh*
Oh well. If HD is Dead, a whole bunch of HD-Players are going to be thrown away this year.
--Pathway
Demographics (Score:5, Insightful)
I think this format war belongs to the 35+ demographic. I was talking with a couple tech savy neighbourhood kids to get a feel for where they were at. Their response? "You buy that shit? Why don't you just download it, that's what we do." They're bypassing this entire nightmare.
$1000 players, $500 HDCP strippers, format "A" vs. format "B", cables, plugs... ad nausium. The generation that matters in the next 10 years are laughing at us 'old' people. They could care less about physical media when on-line on-demand is available.
The warranties haven't even expired on some of these HD-DVD boxes people spent a lot of money on and the format has already been declared dead. My age group is the last generation used to "owning" physical media. For us the format matters. Remove the media as in download on demand, whatever the source, and none of this matters.
I'll wait for several reasons. Least of which, is that either format is moot as is DRM so long as the direction is toward downloading. Cable has on demand viewing, Netflix has started the same thing. I don't think the next 5-10 years is going to be about physical media. Corporations are still battling over a format when it's replacement is available and in use. Things are moving quicker then they have in the past. I declare both formats dead or at least very temporary.
-[d]-
Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll go out on a limb here, DVD sales are in the dumps for a reason. The vast majority of people don't watch movies over and over again. Thus, they do not see any value in buying DVDs. If people won't buy cheap DVDs they certainly not going to go out and buy expensive Blu-ray movies, especially when you consider the playback machine costs $400 (USD)!
The future of movies will be streamed. You can call it IPTV or movies on demand, or whatever. But the future of physical media is dead. CDs are dead. DVDs are dying. Blu-ray was dead before the battle even started.
consumers win (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, from what I've heard, it will require at most a firmware upgrade. But we don't know that yet.
I don't think we know that, either.
HD-DVD was never cheaper (Score:2)