Did Gates Fib About H1-B Salaries? 345
netbuzz writes "While in Washington last year lobbying for higher H1-B visa limits, Bill Gates told David Broder of the Washington Post that Microsoft starts such workers at about $100,000. An analysis by one offshoring critic suggests that's not true. If his analysis is correct, it would undermine part of the case for lifting H1-B ceilings.
Say It Ain't So, Bill! (Score:2, Interesting)
Bill Gates: computer scientist, marketer, business man, philanthropist
Who would have thought the term Renaissance Man [wikipedia.org] could have such negative connotations?
Re:compuglobalmegahypernet (Score:5, Interesting)
market rates change (Score:5, Interesting)
From another perspective, Gates is saying that current market rates are ~100k. This is about right for mid-level software engineers with 2-4 years of experience, in that area.
It's not the same as looking at H1-B applications and trying to figure current rates, as they will reflect market conditions from 1-4 years ago (depending on when the H1-B process started for that individual).
Re:market rates change (Score:3, Interesting)
That is illegal. An H1B MUST be paid the market rate. No doing so is the same as hiring an illegal worker.
Lying with statistics (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, TFA cites green card applications, not green card grants.
It happens to be true..... (Score:5, Interesting)
So, as hard as it might be for some of you to stomach, Gates is telling the truth. These are not Janitors Microsoft is hiring, but highly trained, highly sought after individuals, regardless of country of origin.
Deal with it.
Re:But, whats the alternative? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:market rates change (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm fresh out of a masters program and have just accepted a job with MSFT for $84,000/yr. Assuming a 4% raise per year, after 4 years that gets me to $98,270/yr before even factoring in bonuses, benefits, etc. And here's the interesting part: it's a "core technical" job, but not a developer (SDE) position. I know another non-SDE finishing a masters here who was offered $87,000. They're offering our SDE peers even higher starting salaries.
I think $100k sounds about right for 2-4 years experience as a developer, at least with MSFT.
Re:Say It Ain't So, Bill! (Score:3, Interesting)
My solution which is unworkable, inhuman, incompatible with a free society, and unlikely to make things great although I'm convinced it would make things better is:
Take every official of the federal government. Shoot them.
Hold new elections. Shoot everybody who runs.
Find (magically) the person who had the least interest in being involved in any of that crap, make him do the job. Holding his family and friends hostage if need be to force his cooperation.
Set some reasonable goals (magically again) for him to accomplish before he can step down.
Re:Well duh (Score:3, Interesting)
Valid point, but not accurate in my case. I did look very hard for jobs. Even enlisted the help of a job-finding service. I was offered one job immediately after graduating and turned it down because it was barely enough to live on, given the location. After that, nothing. I was willing to take just about anything within 6 months of that point, and went a year without getting a thing. It wasn't a case of me being picky or demanding. Not at all.
And I did finish law school, and work as a law clerk, which is pretty much the definition of taking a modest first job.
Bill's goals (Score:3, Interesting)
If I had Bill's money, I'd be funding a mission to Mars, building supercolliders, or something like that that would actually go down in history. Bill, on the other hand... he built himself a big house, lent money to people, and then gave the interest they paid back to charity; plus he made a few tiny (1% of net worth scale) donations himself.
Meanwhile Paul Allen is financing Burt Rutan's spaceflights; and Ted Turner has set up over a dozen "ranch" nature preserves with an area larger than the two smallest states put together, and created the Goodwill Games. Bill's sending checks to AIDS researchers seems very pedestrian and uninspired by comparison.
Re:Well duh (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Well duh (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't say I've ever had problems working with foreign-born colleagues. Or at least no worse than somebody born down the road. In fact I'd rather deal with somebody more worldly. Maybe your particular social background means that you haven't been able to adapt sufficiently to communicate well enough to successfully brainstorm with "them". Somebody from even as close culturally as Canada or the UK is going to take some time to learn Americanisms and the correct way to understand customers.
Re:Say It Ain't So, Bill! (Score:3, Interesting)
1. You like money, or are a controlling asshole
2. Your father is a lawyer (and a controlling asshole)
3. You're really smart and think you can use the law to make a difference in the world. Oh by the way, you could dedicate your whole life to a single cause and maybe get the wheels turning. Then some guy with a bomb strapped to his chest will cause a bigger change overnight.
The fundamental problem with humanity is we're a bunch of selfish lazy assholes. Most people think of their career in terms of income, and vice versa. If janitors earned 150k a year and doctors earned only 20k, then everyone would want to be a janitor.. then someone would invent Janitor University, and govenrment would pass a law forcing people to get their 7 years of reeducation before being issued a license to wave a mop. And you'd see a lot more doctors robbing liquor stores.
I live in the government capital of Canada, lots of office jobs here. Some people grow up and they want to become doctors, psychologists, engineers... that's great, but for everyone else the common attitude is "I'm gonna get a cushy office job." What the hell kind of life goal is that ? They don't care what they actually do, as long as it's done in an office, with a disproportionate salary and nice benefits. Sure, some of them are highly skilled and would be useful if they weren't suffocated by the sheer number of imbeciles standing in their way. They do it for a few years, start to lose their mind then go on stress leave (paid, of course) because they hate their job and have no sense of self-worth. Some stronger types might choose to travel up the career ladder, until they're under so much pressure they just crack. What's worse is that most people go in with at least some qualities, but the homogenous nature of the office setting quickly breaks them into conformant drones.
Well what do you do when you're unhappy in your job ? You make changes to be happier, right ? What if all the jobs suck ass... what then ? You go get more money, to try and compensate for your misery. Eventually this cycle leads to fraudulent behavior, and that is why governments are corrupt. A perfectly happy public servant wouldn't dare consider any illegal activity that could jeopardize their career, but those people are greatly outnumbered by bitter wage slaves.